Re: Mecum car prices
 

Chris,
I meant no disrespect towards you. Your integrity, knowledge and reputation in regard to unrestored cars is widely known. As is your prestigious collection of unrestored Vettes. The Boss 9 market much like the rest of Ford world is impossible to predict and much less stable than Vette world.

January before last an restored Boss 9 that had never been judged but was marketed as a Thoroughbred went for 660K. This past January some sold in the 360K range and your car is better than all of those by a wide margin.

The two MCA judges who looked at your car Friday were comparing it to a unrestored Black Boss 9 that had sold for 550K so I don't think that is fair? If anyone can detail an unrestored car to high show standards it is you.

The problem with Boss 9s compared to Vettes is that the Boss 9 runs like a turd in relation to a big block Chevy( and some would say a Chevy Vega) and as a veteran of MCA competition Its my observation the Ford meets are highly political and the MCA unrestored class is similar to your Vette benchmark class in that the MCA requires all the parts to be original and precede the cars build date including tires, battery and exhaust and 80% of the paint for which they use a paint gauge.

More problamatic is a lack of uniformity that Vette shows have in judging standards that the MCA doesn't. The MCA doesn't have a survivor class like the Vette world does for cars that aren't benchmark level. Your new Boss 9, I would think would sail through the new survivor program Dave Burroughs has put together? I am not sure if it has date code correct tires, exhaust etc that MCA judges are looking for and think any unrestored car without them is crap. The MCA guys are just beyond anal when it comes to originality, they evaluate every original Mustang from a benchmark level status.

Re: Mecum car prices
 

I was amazed at what a nice facility it turned out to be and the amazing amount of quality cars. Dave and Dana are happy with how the sales went. Try selling off 21 cars and wading thru 21 cars worth of tire kickers. It would probably take a couple years to go thru those cars. Dana did it in a couple hours. Real bids, real money. Nobody in the car world can say they didn't know the cars were for sale. If you wanted one of the cars, you came or bid from home. The reserve on the blue RS ZL1 was 675K but it sold for 800K. I don't think having two ZL1's there had anything to do with the prices. That just appears to be where the prices are now. If you are buying and selling you are taking a hit but the cars in reality are getting more affordable. I don't need a family resort, just cars. Everyone there that I asked about it thought the whole setup was great.

Re: Mecum car prices
 

Well said Charley. I agree totally. Chris, you got a great car at a fair price IMO. Les, you should have actually attended.

Re: Mecum car prices
 

No problems at all. They are just cars. I actually bought it because I know it will clean up. A friend here in Dallas loves these, and he wasn't able to make it and couldn't be reached by phone, so I bought it. If he wants it, it's his and I'll help him clean it up.

Re: Mecum car prices
 

I just checked the Mecum website and saw the red W-30 ragtop go for 55 or so, the black one 80. The 4-speed reddish one went for a buck fifty. I wonder the level of documentation on the first two as it seems too low.

On the other hand, perhaps there were other variables affecting prices, such as being 2nd tier cars among 1st tier cars? There's not a lot of Chevy guy who are interested in spending that kind of coin for an Olds.

Re: Mecum car prices
 

Charley,
Its good to hear some positive news. Everyone seemed to like the facility, Indy is just not considered a resort destination? No one can fault the effort Dana put into selling Dave's cars. I just think they sold under the market? But the market is changing I guess?

Great news about super ultra rare supercars like the Blue ZL-1 being more affordable and selling for half of what we thought market value was. That would mean the Supersnake is also more affordable right? Half of what we thought it was?? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/cool.gif

Re: Mecum car prices
 

Mike,
I had planned on coming but had to be in Chicago unexpectedly the previous weekend for a funeral and have to fly back this weekend on more unpleasent business. I couldn't be out of town three weekends in a row. It's my loss, had I been there I would own the unrestored blue ZL-1 right now. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...emlins/mad.gif

Re: Mecum car prices
 

You don't know if you would have owned the RS ZL1. Remember you still would have to out bid the guy that got it and you don't know what it would take to out bid him. Same guy that bought a couple Cobras a auction last year ? Has a few hundred cars ? Remember when ZL1's were 200 K ? Not so long ago.

Re: Mecum car prices
 

Did Jerry Macneish sell Old Reliable? What was the price?

Re: Mecum car prices
 

It was bid on the block to 400K,but was not accepted.

Re: Mecum car prices
 

[ QUOTE ]
Remember when ZL1's were 200 K ? Not so long ago.


[/ QUOTE ] And now we are saying the sky is falling because they are ONLY doing 800K ?? The market is fine, that auction did better prices than alot of people thought . You can always point to a few cars and ask what happened. No one said the market was soft when the green copo camaro did 85K at BJ a few years ago.

Re: Mecum car prices
 

I was sure that the owner of Reliable transport was going to buy Old Reliable and park it next to Little Hoss but he didn't. I was so sure of myself, I bet Jerry it would happen. Jerry didn't sell his car but he did get 20.00 from me.

Re: Mecum car prices
 

I keep thinking of that black W30 at $80,000. What a car.
But as mentioned earlier, who knows how high the buyer was willing to go on that one.

Re: Mecum car prices
 

Anyone know that the Red 70 Buick GS Stage 1 Convertible brought?

Re: Mecum car prices
 

It sold for $115,000.00.
http://www.mecumauction.com/auctions...D=SC0508-65956

Re: Mecum car prices
 

-----Wow!!! Automatic for $115,000. Either crazy or a visionary. The two are close, I think.......Bill S

Re: Mecum car prices
 

There are ZL-1s and then there are ZL-1s. This unrestored blue ZL-1 with the low miles and original paint and original interior not to mention the original engine was one of the two or three most historically significant muscle cars in existence. IMHO far more valuable then any of the HEMI Cuda convertibles that sold for two or three times as much.

We all agree a car can only be original once and original cars command a justifiable premium. This car had no stories attached to it , no one was going around claiming it was a re-body or a repaint or had tape marks etc. It has always been a well known car with tons of media coverage.

Many considered it to be the holy grail of muscle cars. The ZL-1 in the Camaro is widely considered to be the pinnacle of muscle car performance and this car was a documented low mile unmolested one of two RS ZL-1.

So today's market is evidently saying the holy grail is worth 800K. That is good or bad depending on which side of the fence your on I guess? Buyer or seller?

Re: Mecum car prices
 

Sorry you couldn't make it Les. I think you would have a totally different opinion on the venue if you could have made it. The sale was very well run, and, I think very successful. I haven't heard the final numbers, but, I think they will be great. Yes, the market has "stabilized" a bit, but, I think that is exactly what we needed, and, I'm speaking as one who has a pretty good sized dog in the fight. It was a pretty simple equation as far as the values on the cars. The rarity of the car plus the condition of the car, times the documentation on the car = the price. Maybe simplified, but, you get the picture. Even a rare car, in #3 condition with no docs did NOT set a world record like they used to, LOL.

As far as ZL1 prices, it was not that long ago that I called Dave C telling him he was crazy for spending 200 & then 275 on the two cars that sold this weekend. I have graciously eaten several meals of crow since that time. The guy who bought the blue car buys with a "money is no object" philosophy, so, if another serious collector like Les had been bidding, I also believe it would have cracked the million dollar mark. And, the last time I looked, $800,000. was a lot of money for a Camaro of ANY type.

Re: Mecum car prices
 

As far as the "holy grail" status of the blue car, that may be the opinion of many people, but, I can assure you, not all people. I have cars that are worth less than half of that car that I would personally rather keep than trade for it. That is without regard to value of course. I might be dumb, but, I'm not stupid. I think.

Anyway, the crazy run up of prices for hemi Cuda converts dragged everything else up with them. That was a lot of blue sky IMO, and, the leaders on the way up have also led the pack on the correction. I think this sale has established a base for buyers to feel comfortable to start buying again. A good healthy market with reasonable increases in values is good for buyers, sellers, AND keepers in the long run.

Re: Mecum car prices
 

One more thing. In the weeks leading up to the Mecum sale, I had heard about several high end collectors who planned to bid on the ZL1s. The rumors that they were going to buy those cars may very well have scared off some viable bidders. I think that happens more than we want to admit. The thought that "I want that car, but, I'm not even going to go because [insert name of rich guy] is going to pay whatever it takes to own it". Then "rich guy" doesn't show up, or, is able to steal something because nobody else with the wherewithal shows up.

Re: Mecum car prices
 

I thought the ZL1 corvettes are the holy grail!

Re: Mecum car prices
 

Great Auction!
I bought some cars, sold some cars. Spent time with good friends, from all over the world. The location and venue are very good for a muscle car auction. Much better than schlepping cars around in the Mud at B/J.

The Mecum Team "delivered the goods" once again!

See you there next year!!

Re: Mecum car prices
 

Either Dana or Dave lost their ass on the 70 GS Stage 1 Convertible. Somebody got a heck of a deal on real car for cheap money!

Re: Mecum car prices
 

In 1988 the 427 67 documented restored corvette was selling for $100,000 Canadian at auction.In late 1989 when the economy hit the skids that same car sold at a local auction for $50,000 Canadian. The car market is like the stock market. Buy low sell high.For some of us that are in this hobby for the sheer pleasure its not a problem because we are in it for the long run.
PJ

Re: Mecum car prices
 

I too feel Mecum put on a First Class Event and has raised the bar for muscle car auction. I was able to buy the Yellow ZL1 for what I feel is way under the market value of these cars. Dave & Jill'S collection was one we all admired & will be missed. Thanks for all the hospitality & memories. Wayne

Re: Mecum car prices
 

Wayne you stole that car you should have been wearing a mask. LOL

Mike , I think Dana always runs a great auction arguably the best out there IMHO. I just think the TV coverage was hard to find and INDIANAPOLIS sucks as a venue city. There I said it all you Indy residents and Indy lovers commence with the bashing. Indy may have been attractive to Dana but I have been to Indy and hope to never return. Chicago suburbs, Phoenix, Vegas, California all are places that would attract more buyers. Indy was a great place to hide an auction and a great place for dealers to pay wholesale.

Yeah I heard the rumors about the heavy hitters bidding on the ZL-1 and am kicking myself for listening to them.

And yeah I think the Colts suck also. Da Bearz rule. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/cool.gif

Re: Mecum car prices
 

"Hide an auction" ? Were you under a rock ? It was on directv for 7 hours. It was on Ebay. Plenty of us were there, just not you so you think it was hidden ? The economy is in the tank. Prices on everything has tanked except for the price of gas. I know one bidder that was set to buy a couple of the significant cars but is very unsure of things because his business involves transportation and the price of diesel is a big concern. He was prepared to pay more than the 800K for the ZL1 but didn't bid at all. There are tons of guys that say "I would have paid more than that" on certain cars but they didn't. There was a guy that supposedly was offering 6 mil for Daves collection about a week before Dave comitted to Dana. He was at the auction saying how much better it would have been for Dave. He could have bought the exact same collection at the auction and saved a million dollars but he bought nothing! So was he really going to pay 6 mil or was he just another stroke ?
The Olds converts had no paperwork and the front sheetmetal on the red car had fenders from a different year so that is why the prices were lower than some people expected.

People have been bitching for the last few years about how over priced the cars are. Now that the prices are dropping they are bitching about prices dropping. There are a bunch of cars that used to sell on the 60K-70K range that over the last few years have jumped over 100-200K that will probably come back down again.

Re: Mecum car prices
 

[ QUOTE ]


There was a guy that supposedly was offering 6 mil for Daves collection about a week before Dave comitted to Dana. He was at the auction saying how much better it would have been for Dave.



[/ QUOTE ]

So, was it Mike S. that wante to buy the collection as a whole? I mean...at one time he said that he already had it. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/naughty.gif

Re: Mecum car prices
 

I respect your opinion Les, but, as I've said many times on this board, if you're not at the auction in question, your opinion can't be considered accurate. There were plenty of people with the ability to buy these cars. I spoke with the person heading up the phone bidding effort, and, they had no less than five phone bidders on the major cars, each with their own phone bid attendant. There was plenty of opportunity to bid if you wanted to, so, the location was secondary to the cars themselves. The simple fact is that the bidding stopped when there weren't two people willing to go higher. There is no telling where it would have stopped if there was another willing bidder.

Dave & Jill were happy, Dana was happy, the attendees were happy; it seems like only Les is unhappy, LOL. Chill & I hope to see you at the Mecum Fall auction in St. Charles.

As an aside, a couple of the Mecum auctioneer group also work the B-J auctions. Jimmy Landis is the best at what he does in my opinion, bar NONE. The word is that for even the B-J team, they have never sold a higher dollar volume in the same time that that it took to sell the Christenholz collection. We can disect this all day, but, that said a lot to them, and, it says a lot to me as well. Let's not lament the prices. Let's celebrate the new momentum that should lead to a nice steady up trend. We all have something to look forward to. My suggestion to those that have been locked out of the market especially for Supercars, is to jump in while you can. I don't think there has been a better time to get in, at least for the last several years.

Re: Mecum car prices
 

I liked Indy.
We were there one year for the Indianapolis 500.
I especially liked the parade and the motorcops doing stunts and trick riding at the head of the parade.
I wish I had filmed it.

Re: Mecum car prices
 

Thanks for your perspective Mike...sounds like you guys had a blast there. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

Re: Mecum car prices
 

Hi There,

Can I chime in? Les, Charley, Mike - Group Hug!

Regards,
Stuart Smalley, Host
"Daily Affirmations with Stuart Smalley"

Re: Mecum car prices
 

Looks like a great venue - most (all?) cars indoors. Recall the fairgrounds working okay for the Street Nats, too.

Bet the RS ZL-1 buyer'll get his money back when he's done having fun.

Re: Mecum car prices
 

Yeah Charley I was hiding under a rock. Unfortunately my rock didn't have a HD TV decoder box and we couldn't get the auction? 77 hours or 77,000 of TV it doesn't matter if you can't find it. I can watch Barrett Jackson in my cabin 9000 feet up on a remote Utah mountain in a blizzard but can't find Dana's auction in my living room in Vegas?

Yeah I wasn't there this weekend but I have been there before for a car show and half a dozen of my friends were there this weekend who don't have to tow Dana's party line on this forum and the facility is located in the middle of a poorer section of Indy. Heck why not just find a real ghetto next time? LOL

So Charley and Mike I am just curious how many times in the past when the kids were a little younger have you said "Hey Honey get the kids and pack up the car were going to Indy to watch the grass grow" or whatever they do there for excitement?

Lets see BJ has three auctions one in Phoenix, one in West Palm Beach and now one in Vegas all on speedvision. Drew has one in Scottsdale, one in Monterray and one in Florida near Disney World. So you guys are arguing its easier to get the family to a bad section of Indy rather than those places I just mentioned? And I am living under a rock??? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif

I have always said Dana gets the best cars and runs the best most relaxed customer friendly auctions but in my very humble opinion Indy sucks, his HD TV coverage sucks and first and foremost https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...arleySucks.gif LOL LOL

Re: Mecum car prices
 

Sorry if you can't afford Directv. Do we need to setup a donation thread ? If you are posting here you have access to Ebay and it was on Ebay also. I leave the family at home when I go to the auction. Any of the half dozen friends you have that went have a problem with the auction ? What was it they didn't like ? Tow Dana's party line ? I'm sorry you had to miss the event but knocking it still won't make it any less than the steller event it was.

Re: Mecum car prices
 

It was stellar because Dana always gets the best quality and most significant muscle cars and runs the most fun auctions not because it was in Indy or because of the facility. I get direcTV but need some decoder box and perhaps a secret decoder ring to get the signal? Feel free to send me any donations to purchase them.

I just received Dana's latest auction flyer in the mail today, this one is in St. Paul. I think this December Dana is having the Anchorage Alaska Mid winter classic let me know how the skiing is big guy? Say hello to Reggie for me. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...arleySucks.gif

Re: Mecum car prices
 

[ QUOTE ]
I respect your opinion Les, but, as I've said many times on this board, if you're not at the auction in question, your opinion can't be considered accurate. There were plenty of people with the ability to buy these cars. I spoke with the person heading up the phone bidding effort, and, they had no less than five phone bidders on the major cars, each with their own phone bid attendant. There was plenty of opportunity to bid if you wanted to, so, the location was secondary to the cars themselves. The simple fact is that the bidding stopped when there weren't two people willing to go higher. There is no telling where it would have stopped if there was another willing bidder.

Dave & Jill were happy, Dana was happy, the attendees were happy; it seems like only Les is unhappy, LOL. Chill & I hope to see you at the Mecum Fall auction in St. Charles.

As an aside, a couple of the Mecum auctioneer group also work the B-J auctions. Jimmy Landis is the best at what he does in my opinion, bar NONE. The word is that for even the B-J team, they have never sold a higher dollar volume in the same time that that it took to sell the Christenholz collection. We can disect this all day, but, that said a lot to them, and, it says a lot to me as well. Let's not lament the prices. Let's celebrate the new momentum that should lead to a nice steady up trend. We all have something to look forward to. My suggestion to those that have been locked out of the market especially for Supercars, is to jump in while you can. I don't think there has been a better time to get in, at least for the last several years.

[/ QUOTE ]

The venue was excellent! The location so so, but I wasn't there for sight seeing, I was there for Iron watching.(Wife and 3 year old car nut in tow) I also was able to pop over to bump day at the Speedway and take in some high speed open wheel rippin! I wish they had an all indoor venue that was doable in Chicago, but as the stones said "You can't always get what you want."
I also think one big weekend is all that is needed. As much as I like to watch it. I wondered if earlier/quieter auctions did not lower the expectation of those not in the know and keep them from attending the big one. (maybe that does not matter cause they would not be real money anyway)
I also agree with Mike and think Dana's block staff are excellent with my favorite also always being Jimmy Landis.

Most importantly, while I was sad to see a collection I personally enjoyed watching grow over the years get dismantled, I am glad that no one can take away my friends, Dave and Jill, and that they were happy in the end. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

[image]http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/a...cum08048-1.jpg[/image]

[image]http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/a...cum08046-1.jpg[/image]

Re: Mecum car prices
 

[ QUOTE ]
"Hide an auction" ? The economy is in the tank. Prices on everything has tanked except for the price of gas. I know one bidder that was set to buy a couple of the significant cars but is very unsure of things because his business involves transportation and the price of diesel is a big concern.
People have been bitching for the last few years about how over priced the cars are. Now that the prices are dropping they are bitching about prices dropping. There are a bunch of cars that used to sell on the 60K-70K range that over the last few years have jumped over 100-200K that will probably come back down again.

[/ QUOTE ]

very well said imo.the economy is in the tank.

Re: Mecum car prices
 

[ QUOTE ]
I too feel Mecum put on a First Class Event and has raised the bar for muscle car auction. I was able to buy the Yellow ZL1 for what I feel is way under the market value of these cars. Dave & Jill'S collection was one we all admired & will be missed. Thanks for all the hospitality & memories. Wayne

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm happy to see that some of the special cars went to sYc members.

Congrats with your purchase.

Re: Mecum car prices
 

Great event even with a hangover. Although the prices were a little erratic I felt that overall the market seems pretty healthy. It did seem that much of the energy was gone when the Kevin Moore collection ran. Some pretty good deals were had on those cars. A black 6pak cuda rag for 175k seems pretty reasonable.