Re: Yellow Canadian L89
 

[ QUOTE ]
a UVIP is a document which can be purchased by anyone (even online) who is considering purchasing an Ontario based vehicle.

[/ QUOTE ] You have to be careful since posting a document for millions to see that arent interested in buying the car is not the intended use of that document i would think. Put yourself in the place of a previous owner who wouldnt be happy about seeing his name on the internet like this. Just an observation.Maybe your privacy laws up there are different.

Re: Yellow Canadian L89
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
a UVIP is a document which can be purchased by anyone (even online) who is considering purchasing an Ontario based vehicle.

[/ QUOTE ] You have to be careful since posting a document for millions to see that arent interested in buying the car is not the intended use of that document i would think. Put yourself in the place of a previous owner who wouldnt be happy about seeing his name on the internet like this. Just an observation.Maybe your privacy laws up there are different.

[/ QUOTE ]

There are no restrictions with respect to who sees the document as the government had stripped all personal information such as address and phone numbers. Anyone from anywhere can obtain this document at anytime. There is nothing to sign, no disclaimer, nothing which indicates that this document can only be purchased if (add cause here).

Re: Yellow Canadian L89
 

OK....I'm getting lost again. Somewhere in this thread someone points out a green COPO that has a fake trim tag. Somewhere in this thread is a link to the old thread on the same COPO. In the old thread the car was re-united with it's orig trim tag and engine ? If so where is it's orig trim tag ? Is this even the same car ?

Re: Yellow Canadian L89
 

I think we're back to the Yellow (L89)?

In any case, imho, 200k plus days are gone for a car like this even if it is real. As they say, the market, its a ajustin'.

Re: Yellow Canadian L89
 

There may not be a line waiting to buy one but an L89 documented is gonna fetch some serious money still..real deal cars are still real money imho.

Re: Yellow Canadian L89
 

[ QUOTE ]
OK....I'm getting lost again. Somewhere in this thread someone points out a green COPO that has a fake trim tag. Somewhere in this thread is a link to the old thread on the same COPO. In the old thread the car was re-united with it's orig trim tag and engine ? If so where is it's orig trim tag ? Is this even the same car ?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll try and simplify this. The green COPO is owned by Richard English. The Yellow L89 is owned by Phil Robinson. Both of these individuals own Camaro Heaven and both of these cars have fake trim tags. Yes, the COPO as explained in the other thread was supposed to have been reunited with it's body but it currently has a fake tag.

Re: Yellow Canadian L89
 

I think this is only the Ontario registration history, so maybe it was purchased new out of province? I have seen these Docs from GM Canada list the original dealer, when in fact the car was transferred to another dealer before it was sold, so in fact the selling dealer is not on the paperwork. Case in point, the Canadian ZL1 sold in Alberta.
Its selling dealer and listed dealer on the paperwork from GM Canada are two different dealers.
Mark

Re: Yellow Canadian L89
 

The ad posted says the car was a one owner car "until" it was restored...it does not say it is a one-owner car...

I don't know anything about the car...just read the ad.

Re: Yellow Canadian L89
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think this is only the Ontario registration history, so maybe it was purchased new out of province? I have seen these Docs from GM Canada list the original dealer, when in fact the car was transferred to another dealer before it was sold, so in fact the selling dealer is not on the paperwork. Case in point, the Canadian ZL1 sold in Alberta.
Its selling dealer and listed dealer on the paperwork from GM Canada are two different dealers.
Mark

[/ QUOTE ]

Normally this would be possible but there was a claim made in the advertising which indicated (as mentioned above) there was only one owner before the restoration. Since the ad mentions that the restoration occured in 2005, the original owner must be who owned the car in 2004.

Re: Yellow Canadian L89
 

Ontario DMV records only go back to the early 70's, so if the car transferred out of Province either in a dealer transfer when new, or if the car was sold in Weston, On and the owner moved to Quebec for instance early in the car's life, the owner would not show up on the Ontario DMV ownership listing until the car was registered (or reregistered) in Ontario. No UVIP will list owners prior to the early 70's...I tracked a '67 Z years ago sold out of Gorries' and that is exactly what happened to the car.

Re: Yellow Canadian L89
 

[ QUOTE ]
Ontario DMV records only go back to the early 70's, so if the car transferred out of Province either in a dealer transfer when new, or if the car was sold in Weston, On and the owner moved to Quebec for instance early in the car's life, the owner would not show up on the Ontario DMV ownership listing until the car was registered (or reregistered) in Ontario. No UVIP will list owners prior to the early 70's...I tracked a '67 Z years ago sold out of Gorries' and that is exactly what happened to the car.

[/ QUOTE ]

That would not explain why this L89 first shows up in the records in 2004. You seem to be missing the point here - it has been claimed that there was only one owner prior to the restoration in 2005. The UVIP indicates that the one owner prior to the restoration date is the joint ownership of David Mattina and Matt Langford. If the one owner prior to restoration claim is true, then David Mattina and Matt Langford together bought the car new in 1969 regadless of what province or dealer the car was purchased from.

If your point were to apply here Mark, it would mean that Dave Mattina and Matt Langford lived in another province until 2004 when they moved here. That - my friend, did not happen......

Re: Yellow Canadian L89
 

Perhaps the information is hit and miss. We bought our '69 SS396 Chevelle in the fall of 1997. The list of a dozen previous owners went right back to the original owner in 1969. We eventually met him and had a great chat. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/smile.gif Our COPO car has been out of circulation since 1977. Perhaps I should check and see what information they still have on it.

Re: Yellow Canadian L89
 

Sorry, but I read the ad to mean that it was a one-owner car, then sold and restored by the second owner(s) (Dave and Matt). It then appears to have been sold to English and then his partner based on the info you posted. I really don't care one way or the other, but I think your interpretation of the ad is a bit off...

Re: Yellow Canadian L89
 

Okay Mark, then who was the first owner?

Re: Yellow Canadian L89
 

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry, but I read the ad to mean that it was a one-owner car, then sold and restored by the second owner(s) (Dave and Matt)....

[/ QUOTE ]

So would you conclude that Dave and Matt would be the guys who most likely can tell us why the car has a fake trim tag on it?

Re: Yellow Canadian L89
 

Regardless of whos on first or whats on second I know who should be on third Buyer Beware

Re: Yellow Canadian L89
 

[ QUOTE ]
Regardless of whos on first or whats on second I know who should be on third Buyer Beware

[/ QUOTE ]

I knew that was coming.... https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/smirk.gif

Re: Yellow Canadian L89
 

Both of these cars were at the Ontario Camaro Clubs show this past June in Niagara Falls

Re: Yellow Canadian L89
 

If Richard is a member here, perhaps he can explain why his two cars have repro TT's?

Re: Yellow Canadian L89
 

Sorry, I have no idea who the first owner was, nor how many owners the car had. I'm just giving my interpretation of the ad and UVIP that you posted.

Re: Yellow Canadian L89
 

I just saw this thread and thought it would be good to remind everyone what an original COPO cowl tag looks like since we keep seeing so many fakes.
Thanks Maxx https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/flag.gif

Re: Yellow Canadian L89
 

[ QUOTE ]
I just saw this thread and thought it would be good to remind everyone what an original COPO cowl tag looks like since we keep seeing so many fakes.
Thanks Maxx https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/flag.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

What identifies that tag as "an original copo tag"???

Re: Yellow Canadian L89
 

Nothing! "COPO" should be scratched from my previous sentence. Sorry
Just a nice original cowl tag untouched with original attachment caulk. However it is from a COPO car. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/flag.gif

Re: Yellow Canadian L89
 

I have seen 2 unmolested original car and there is no caulking what so ever near the rivits. Both LA cars

Re: Yellow Canadian L89
 

Maxx, If it's possible can you show your tag from from your 1821 mile unrestored 1969 z28/rs.
Thanks

Re: Yellow Canadian L89
 

If all is truly genuine w/ this car aside from the Cowl Tag, OK great...a real L89 w/ Canadian docs that for whatever reason needed a repop tag?.

The part I can't help but think of and let me be clear I'm only surmising the following as a 'possible situation' for any car...but think of what could result if someone stumbled across a known Canadian L89 Vin or maybe even the L89 option noted on one of the microfish copy pages GM Vintage Services used to give out when documenting a single vehicle?. (The microfish pages they used to give out showed a couple dozen cars besides the car being documented and included the Vin also options shipped w/ it).
So if someone did happen to find or spot a Vin w/ the L89 option but didn't have the car, the temptation to 'reverse-resto' a car could be a reality?.
Obviously a rebody w/ repop tags including Cowl and Vin tag would be necessary...so depending on what the tag results were, viewing the stampings and hidden Vins would be the next step on any car these thoughts were applied to?.
Again, I want to be specific that I'm only surmising these situations and not necessarily considering the vehicle in this thread or any other specific cars being suspect...only thinking of the possibilities of how it could all take place especially here in Ontario Canada where it's simple to obtain a title to the Vin of your choice w/ records that don't reach back quite far enough, 'bulletproof' Canadian Vintage Service documents available...all mixed w/ today's world of rebodys, restamps and repop tags!?.

~ Pete
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif

Re: Yellow Canadian L89
 

good point. So you are saying this could be an indication of a "fabricated" car?. I think that would be a pretty stupid move by the person who did such a thing, all it would take is a check of the hidden vin, and what if the original car popped up somewhere? yikes...

Re: Yellow Canadian L89
 

Please let this not get out of hand. So far what we have is a L89 and a COPO that simply have repo trim tags and some inconsistencies in the history of the COPO.

Re: Yellow Canadian L89
 

LA Trim tag with sealer


http://fototime.com/5C7BF275BE9874F/standard.jpg

Re: Yellow Canadian L89
 

Some have it, who worked that day.

http://fototime.com/68F0CEE1B709ED7/standard.jpg

Re: Yellow Canadian L89
 

I think this thread has already got out of hand by a couple of individuals , they know who they are, the way i see it, is the owners of these fabulous rare cars have nothing to prove to anyone on this site. If you have a pocket full of money and want to buy a car of this caliber , go see it and I am sure you will get the whole story and proof on both cars , if I owned these cars i would not respond to all the wannabe car detectives with no money to purchase either of these cars,if you put your money where your mouth is, then, you would expect the owners will disclose all the information you would need to purchase such a high dollar rare car.there seems to be a few people on this site trying to get to the bottom of something for no reason ,just my opinion .

Re: Yellow Canadian L89
 

So their we have a 67 68 69 Los trim tag with sealer or caulk.


http://fototime.com/DCB634FA16090CB/standard.jpg

Re: Yellow Canadian L89
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think this thread has already got out of hand by a couple of individuals , they know who they are, the way i see it, is the owners of these fabulous rare cars have nothing to prove to anyone on this site. If you have a pocket full of money and want to buy a car of this caliber , go see it and I am sure you will get the whole story and proof on both cars , if I owned these cars i would not respond to all the wannabe car detectives with no money to purchase either of these cars,if you put your money where your mouth is, then, you would expect the owners will disclose all the information you would need to purchase such a high dollar rare car.there seems to be a few people on this site trying to get to the bottom of something for no reason ,just my opinion .

[/ QUOTE ]

Not true. The car should stand on it's own merit, one should not need a pile of money to get the truth.

Re: Yellow Canadian L89
 

[ QUOTE ]
So their we have a 67 68 69 Los trim tag with sealer or caulk.


http://fototime.com/DCB634FA16090CB/standard.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]

so there we have it on the caulk. it just depends on how you feel like squeezing the trigger. soon we will be able to tell if it's a monday or friday car based on the caulk. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/flag.gif

Re: Yellow Canadian L89
 

[ QUOTE ]
Not true. The car should stand on it's own merit, one should not need a pile of money to get the truth.

[/ QUOTE ]

All that is required to put this thing to bed is one post by Matt Langford to say why the fake tag is on this car and who the original owner is.

Re: Yellow Canadian L89
 

Isn't Matt the same guy that tried to sell a fake KQ rear to Helmut, last year? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...thumbsdown.gif

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/COPO-YENK...1QQcmdZViewItem

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/showflat...true#Post198605

I wonder if he will eat the tag if it is fake? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/haha.gif

Another thought: Is the car free if it is a retag???

Re: Yellow Canadian L89
 

This problem is only going to get worse, i have never seen so many fake documents, on my l89 the tag was blasted and thin in a couple of spots but i never gave replacement a thought, so an explenation would be nice so these cars wouldnt be questionable every time they pop up, its like the restamped blocks and wheathered build sheets that are being made, I for one think this board is doing a service by bringing these tags to question, it could help somebody save there $$$$$ https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

Re: Yellow Canadian L89
 

After reading this entire thread ive decided to start a trim tag caulk registry. I am contacting everyone that is selling a car on ebay and asking them for a close up of the caulk on thier trim tags. Maybe there is a relation between plants and caulk. IE California built cars may be prone to "caulk running" due to the heat,maybe in the summer months the caulk will be different than in winter months. I will setting up a tent for anyone interested in getting a caulk certificate at some local shows.

Re: Yellow Canadian L89
 

Caulk can be very complex. There was a great bit on Crank Yankers about it.... https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/naughty.gif

http://www.comedycentral.com/motherload/...p;is_large=true

Re: Yellow Canadian L89
 

Hey Maxx did you use to bring your camaros up to Woodstock Ontario for the shows years ago. I was looking at a picture from 8 years ago of a 69 pace car and a 68 Z28 side by side. I think Mr.English owned the pace car and you had the 68 z28. Beautiful cars.