Re: New Ford GT
 

I didn't realize there are no Ford GT mechanics to work on these cars. Interesting posts guys. Lets see a race or two the next SCR show. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/flag.gif

Re: New Ford GT
 

Psychological warfare at its best. Credible. Thoughtful. Intimidating. Well done.

Re: New Ford GT
 

This has turned to my favorite thread! Good thing you guys are buds. Sit tight for a few minutes. I'll be right back. My popcorn needs more salt. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/wink.gif

Re: New Ford GT
 

wow.......... i'm mesmorized here.......

JH

Re: New Ford GT
 

------And its hard to mesmerize Jim.........Bill S

Re: New Ford GT
 

Here is one with only NINE miles on it. I think someone can get this one really cheap!!

Re: New Ford GT
 

I was emailed 7 pictures of this Ford GT with only 9 miles on it. Its a wreck. The guy smashed it driving away from the dealer. For some reason it will not let me save them as a jpeg to post them here. I can forward the email to anyone that is a bit more tech savy than me. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/wink.gif

Re: New Ford GT
 

Are there any hard facts/ documented cases of the control arms falling off, or breaking and causing an accident, while a new Ford GT owner was driving their car on the highway? If so......how many cases?

I'm just real curious.

Thanks, Rick

Re: New Ford GT
 

Gee, it sure got real quiet in here. LOL https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/naughty.gif

Re: New Ford GT
 

[ QUOTE ]
Steve really brings up a good point that is worth elaborating on in regard to the early days of the Viper. Today in 2006 it is almost becoming routine for manufacturers to develop these high HP supercars. It's almost like the flavor of the week nowadays.

But back in 1989 when the Viper was on the drawing board the last performance car to come out of Detroit was the 87 Buick GNX which many called the last of the muscle cars after the 73 Super Duty TAs were the last of the muscle cars.

The fact that Dodge built this car at all back in 91/92 was and is amazing. Dodge at the time was floundering and had no performance cars in their lineup at all. To build this car in 92 Dodge had to satisfy a million and one government regulations and cars like the Viper were not popular nor were they politically correct.

So Dodge decides with the help of a guy named Shelby to stuff a 488 cubic inch V10 motor into a car with no door handles or even windows let alone airbags. Having no idea if the car would even sell? Today it is easy to build a Ford GT and project that it will sell. But back in those days it was a terrific gamble by Dodge IMHO.

But not only did they build it. They built it by hand and still build it by hand all these years later. It still is America's only handbuilt muscle car that I am aware of? And lets not pretend it was anything but a muscle car when it was built. It had a 488 cubic inch big block connected to a 6 speed trans with no reverse lockout. It had rear brakes that were smaller than the ones on my shifter Kart up until 2002. Dodge openly admits when their customers started racing Vipers on road tracks as opposed to the drag strip they were flabergasted. They just didn't design it for road racing back in 92.

Lets also give credit to Dodge for sticking with the handbuilt Viper all these years and not making it a two year wonder like the Ford GT. Lets also acknowledge that Dodge created a dealer network of Viper dealers and required them to have a highly trained Viper tech on staff at all times and no other tech is supposed to work on Vipers other than the dealers Viper tech.

Ford has not followed through like that with the GT there is no Ford GT tech and in fact little or no tech training for the Ford GT. I watched in amazement as my friend in town who is the service manager at a Frod dealership tried to sort through the various recalls on the Ford GT. Ford sent no factory rep, sent no Ford GT tech, provided no tech manual and required the dealers to look online for instructions. Fortunatley the serice manager is a former Nascar racer so he could align the car and set the camber castor and toe as well as the bump steer in a proper manner. But other GT customers have not been so lucky and have complained that after the control arms were replaced the cars never handled the same again.

Dodge also over the years has encouraged it's Viper owners to track their cars and covered the problems under warranty.

Steve is an old Viper racer so he was there when Dodge listened to their customers at the Dodge Viper owner invitationals which by the way Dodge pays for every year or two and puts on a huge world class factory backed event for Viper owners and built a competiton coupe especially for the Viper racers to race in the Viper racing league.

This Comp coupe is a street Viper with the interior removed and a roll cage installed built and designed for Skip Thomas's Viper racing league. As a result Viper owners are justifiably some of the most loyal and passionate customers in the car world.

I simply get tired of reading about uninformed media types who bash and dismiss the Viper as a crudely built inferior car. The fact of the matter is the people who hand build Vipers are very proud of their cars and proud to be part of the Viper program.

When you consider that the Viper is the only handbuilt big block American high performance car manufactured today and that the factory shows it's appreciation for it's Viper customers by building a Comp Coupe and throwing a huge party every couple of years at the factory expense for it's Viper owners I think that Dodge and the car deserve more respect and should not be dismissed so easily when a two year wonder comes along like the Ford GT every few years. Really IMHO the Vipers only true American rival is the Z06 Vette.

My two cents.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is YenkoYS100's wife here (Gloria).

First off, are you that jealous of the Ford GT that you have to spew lie after lie about the cars??? (or maybe you are joking???)

Are you banking on the fact that very few here actually have one of the cars, so they don't really know the truth???

Basically, are you trying to pull the wool over all of our eyes???

I have followed the car from conception to production. This is my dream car. If you want to actually talk, from experience, about the car, maybe you should spend a little time on some of the forums of actual owners. None of this............ my buddies friend, on his brothers side, twice removed........... BS.

If you want to see the truth, from a bunch of Ford GT owners, go to fordgtforums.com. These are all actual Ford GT owners. These people drive their cars, race their cars, and love their cars. They are Ferrari owners, Viper owners, and owners of about every car known to man.

There has been ONE.......... read it........... ONE recall on the Ford GT. This recall came about with NOT ONE failure. It was a JUST IN CASE recall. The crack on the control arm was discovered on a high mileage mule........ on a routine inspection. The vendor who made these arms, used a new process for the casting of the arms. Unfortunately, due to a build-up of casting lube, in a thin portion of the arms.......... you had a chance of a crack. There was not one instance of this happening on a customers car. Ford had enclosed carriers pick up the cars from the owners homes, and transport them to the Rousch assembly facility, or an authorized facility, to have all the arms replaced with billet control arms. Ford went to extreme expense, to make sure that the finish on the billet arms matched that of the other cast parts.

You only wish that Dodge cared that much about Viper problems. Ferrari owners certainly wish that Ferrari cared that much about their owners.

There have been a few TSB's (technical service bulletins, for those not in the know) for a few other issues that only included isolated cars. Remember that the Ford GT is a completely hand assembled car, using aluminum processes that Ford now owns many patents on............ on a platform that is completely unique to this car. It is a grounds up car.

This is something that the majority of Ferrari owners can't even say........... with the exception of the Enzo.

BTW, there are certified GT techs in every service area. This isn't rocket science here. There are no electronic nannies, or other BS on the car. Thus, any competant Ford tech can work on the car.......... including most at-home mechanics.

The Viper, the Z06, the Ferrari F430, and the Ford GT are all 12 second cars, in the hands of the average driver. However, as a mid engine car, with massive torque, the owner of the Ford GT doesn't need to be a race car driver to drive one decently. However, to drive one extremely well, they will definitally have to know what they are doing. There is just way too much torque, right off idle, to make an easy launch. The cars that were tested early, were production spec cars. You want proof of the power, look at ACTUAL dyno's of the cars. These cars easily produce 600hp, stock. You do understand that the higher the horsepower, the harder it is to drive well. In other words, most owners of exotic cars are not nearly as capable as their cars are. If you think otherwise, you are only trying to make yourself feel better about your choice of car.

If you have never owned a S/C 5.4L vehicle.......... you just do not understand.

Finally, spend some time on fordgtforums.com. Learn something about the cars. You will find that they are no more, and in most cases, are much less finicky than most exotics. They are easy to work on. They have massive upgrade potential (the limiting factor being the Recardo transmission, which is only rated for 750hp), at very low dollars. Finally, they are a very unique car that will never be seen again.

I would sell a kidney for one. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/laugh.gif

BTW, I am not a supercar snob. I'm just someone who loves, and appreciates great automobiles......... this includes everything that was built well from the factory, and everything that someone builds themselves....... well. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ins/3gears.gif

Re: New Ford GT
 

Both Les and Colin know their cars...they're joking around with each other. Search either of their names on the internet and you'll see what I mean. They are both VERY competent race car drivers... https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/burnout.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

Re: New Ford GT
 

[ QUOTE ]
Both Les and Colin know their cars...they're joking around with each other. Search either of their names on the internet and you'll see what I mean. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
Your right Bruce in fact Les invited Colin to go Quail Hunting.... .. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ins/tongue.gif

Re: New Ford GT
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Both Les and Colin know their cars...they're joking around with each other. Search either of their names on the internet and you'll see what I mean. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
Your right Bruce in fact Les invited Colin to go Quail Hunting.... .. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ins/tongue.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Awesome Joe! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/naughty.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/haha.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/haha.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/haha.gif

Re: New Ford GT
 

I had replied to Les' last post on Friday, attached a picture, and it bounced because my file was too big. So I hit the back button, and it wiped out my post. Hence my silence over the last day or so...these damn computers piss me off sometimes https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/naughty.gif

Les brings up good points on the Ford GT debate, and everybody is entitled to their opinion. Although can I PLEASE let Les and Gloria loose in a dark alley for just a little while??? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...emlins/eek.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...emlins/eek.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/haha.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/haha.gif

Bottom line is that I feel the GT is a cool car, well thought out, well built, if not poorly executed in the marketplace like many domestic cars. I do think Ford has learned to step up QUICKLY and try to fix any problems that pop up, and yes, there are problems like with any new car. The newer the car and the more technology, the more potential for problems.

Now, as a GT owner and an honest guy, I do have to give a report on my day with my GT today. I decided it was nice enough here to take mine out for the second time - it had had 39 miles on it this morning. It was cold here today, mid-30's, but sunny and has been dry for days so the roads aren't bad. I heeded the advice of the Ford GT Forum guys and torqued all the bolts, lug nuts, etc. I could get to. All were fine. So I drove the car to my buddy's place, he is a Ferrari guru/mechanic/restorer/life-long friend and gear head, figured he'd like to take a run in the GT with me, as his place is out in the boonies near some good roads. We were out driving around (slightly over the speed limit at times https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/blush.gif) and when we switched seats and it was my turn again, I glanced in the rear view to do a cop scan and noticed spray of some sort coming off of the supercharger belt and slinging on the window. I immediately thought of the post I read at www.fordgtforum.com about coolant hoses blowing off and felt like an idiot for not checking those this morning. At my buddy's place, I tightened the offending hose clamp on the water bypass hose at the t-stat and checked all the others. A couple of turns on a clamp and it was fixed, but, still, a PITA and not very reassuring on a brand new car IMHO.

All the time I was thinking "why am I doing this again?" Don't get me wrong, the car is great, it handles great as far as I can tell so far, it looks cool, does everything right. Except why can I have 40 year old cars that don't leak anything and have a brand new supercar that springs a leak at 75 miles on the odo?

Time will tell if the car gets better, worse, or if this was hopefully a fluke and the rest of the guys building the car weren't as hung over as the hose clamp dude. LOL

I have spoken to Les, and he is aware that I am not going to Mopars at the Strip, so we can't go play that week. Actually, I have a pretty tough race schedule as it is this year in vintage Trans Am / Group 6, plus it looks like more MuscleCar TV segments for me, plus actually working for a living and this writing gig...oh, and I am told I am expected to be home at least a few times a year. You know, to clean the gutters and do chores. LOL. However, I think Les should buy Charley's 65 GT350 clone vintage race car so he can come and race with me where we really have some fun! For example, the SAAC nationals in July at VIR should be good with the Cobra/GT350 vintage race...or?? I am looking at 3 races in May, one in June, three again in July, etc., plenty of time to get your moneys worth out of a race car.

Or I can always rent out the 69 Trans Am race car, she is almost ready, engine just got dyno'ed on Thursday...306 CID small block, 546 HP @ 7200 RPM... engine is built to live at 8k rpm if needed. Should be fun!

As far as idiots crashing Ford GT's and all that, every new supercar that comes out has a large percentage of dumb a##es that thinks because they can afford it they can drive it. Look at the recent news with all the crashed Enzos, and ask Les about all the Carrera GT wrecks and deaths. This is not something exclusive to the Ford GT, as much as some would like others to believe. 'Nuff Said?

Colin

Re: New Ford GT
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think Les should buy Charley's 65 GT350 clone vintage race car so he can come and race with me where we really have some fun!

[/ QUOTE ]

One question...if he buys it and goes racing with you...will he relegated to the top or bottom of the pile ??

Re: New Ford GT
 

Bob, if he was at the top, how would you know? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...elairSucks.gif

Re: New Ford GT
 

Gloria ,
Before you sell your kidney you should know that I observed with my own two eyes a Saleen GT badged as a Ford GT being disassembled at my local Ford dealer service area as they replaced all the control arms and the rear main seal. As for your assertion that "most at home mechanics" could work on the Saleen/Ford GT I observed with my own two eyes as the service manager at the Ford dealer a former Nascar racer and mechanic struggled with these two projects. As a matter of fact he discussed with me the complete and total lack of support from Ford on the problems and how he had asked for a factory rep to assist him or even a manual and received no help at all from Ford. Even for a former Nascar mechanic these were complex projects and each and every repair was completed at a Ford dealership not some high tech facilty as the Ford marketing guru's would have you believe.

I then observed again with my own two eyes as the owner of the Ford dealership who also owned the Saleen/Ford GT waited a couple of weeks to see how bad the rear main seal actually leaked because it required so much disassembly of the car and the lack of Ford tech support made him not want to replace the rear main seal unless their was no other choice. They finally had to replace it because of the amount of oil leakage.

I watched again with my own two eyes as the tow truck came to my neighbors house and picked up his Saleen/Ford GT to deliver it to the dealership where it sat for over a month until all the recalls could be resolved. This notion that Saleen/Ford GTs were picked up by enclosed carriers is just marketing nonsense. Perhaps some were picked up that way I don't know I didn't see them all get picked up but every owner I spoke to had a Flat bed come for the car or drove it into the dealership after waiting for a Ford pick up that never came.


I currently own a 2003 SVT cobra anniv. editon last time I looked it was supercharged and in stock configuration it's as big a dog as the Saleen built GT with a Ford badge on it. But AT LEAST THE FORD SVT TEAM BUILT THE CAR!!! I also own six Shelby's ,two Boss 429s, three Boss 302s, two 1969 428 CJ shaker convertibles, and two 1966 Mustang fastbacks. My daily driver is a Ford F350 dually crew cab , my wife's daily driver is an excursion.I have owned and driven a Ford on a daily basis since 1975. I have no problem at all with Fords I tend to collect them and was anxiously looking forward to buying a Ford GT. That was when I thought Ford would actually build the car instead of sub it out to Steve Saleen? Perhaps you can spoon feed me and explain why Ford didn't have enough confidence in their SVT team to have them build the car or engine?????? Perhaps you can discuss it with me at the next Ford sponsored national owners party. Ooops thats right thats Dodge who rewards their customer loyalty with million dollar national Viper owner events not Ford?

When I went for my first ride in the Saleen/Ford GT with my neighbor I was so disappointed with the performance of the car I went the next day to San Diego to Pioneer Porsche and bought a Porsche Carrera GT because the car delivered as promised all 605 actual HP without modifications that would void the warranty. I was so unhappy with the Saleen badged Ford GT I actually went out and spent 240K more to own a 605 HP Porsche.

I am a Ford blue oval guy right down to the tattoo on my buttocks but this Saleen/Ford GT was rushed into production for the Ford 100 year anniversary. It is built by Saleen with a Roush engine later installed at a Ford plant to pacify the Ford unions. Those are undisputed facts.

The car is more a marketing and hype kit car then a race proven track tested car like the Z06 Vette, Viper and Ferrari. When I wanted to learn about the Ford GT I went to dealers and owners not to a chat room where people may or may not actually own the car and the few owners who are on the forums are desperately trying to support the car because Ford ruined the distribution of the Ford GT and allowed dealers to grossly mark up the car to obscene levels.

It may interest you to know that Dodge did not allow dealers to screw customers like Ford did with these absurd markups and sent vouchers to prior Viper owners first who then brought the Voucher to any dodge dealer of their choice and paid no more than MSRP for the first 1996 GTS coupes and the 2003 SRT Vipers. In other words Dodge prevented the dealers from charging over MSRP and went straight to previous new Viper owners and rewarded them with first rights on the next generation Vipers to avoid massive dealer markup over MSRP as a reward them for their prior purchase of a Viper. Dodge different!

As someone who either personally purchased or referred my friends and was responsible for buying 48 Fords from my local dealer since the year 2000 it would have been a nice gesture if Ford had given us SVT owners a shot at the Saleen/Ford GT before dealers tried to mark them up.

I couldn't be any happier that most Ford dealers are buried in their 2005 Saleen/Ford GTs after greedily asking so much over MSRP for so long and now that the bottom has dropped out and the INFORMED public knows that Ford doesn't build the car or engine and has a host of quality and production problems.

Gloria my dear if your going to flame me on one of these forums in regard to the Ford GT you need to bring your "A" game because trying to defend this Saleen/Roush/Ford Frankensteins monster kit car is a losing proposition and I can supply all the documentation to support my statements.

About the only thing Ford is doing well these days is marketing. The 2007 Shelby for example has nothing to do with Shelby other than his name is on the car. Yet Ford's marketing department would have us all think Shelby is modifying these Mustangs like the 65,66,67 models. It's nothing more than an SVT cobra with a Shelby badge affixed to it for crying out loud. More Ford BS hype. But at least they built this car in house. And I am still waiting everyday by my mail box for my voucher being a previous SVT Cobra owner. Ooops got the wrong company again sorry. LOL

I enjoyed your post though.

Re: New Ford GT
 

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...emlins/eek.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...emlins/eek.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...emlins/eek.gif

Uh-Oh...not quiet any more around here, is it??? LOL

SO, can I stir the pot again? This is kinda fun. Les, tell us about those Carrera GT wrecks, like the one that started the class action suit against Porsche for selling defective cars with safety equipment that doesn't work? Just illustrating that nobody is perfect. And I think the Carrera GT was $440k or so vs. the 2005 Ford GT MSRP of $140k, and I think both Porsche dealers and Ford dealers were both trying to rip buyers off with ridiculous premiums on BOTH cars but now BOTH cars are experiencing a buyer's market? As near as I can figure, that is. I think the Carrera GT was also the subject of a fair amount of backlash from the press regarding the fact that it is really not that easy to drive, and recall even you telling me CGT stories about guys not being able to drive them and how they can't clear a curb cut to get into gas stations, etc. I think the Ford/Saleen/Whatever GT is actually a more user-friendly car...it has a regular clutch and is not as "hyper" as a CGT in general. Apples and oranges, IMHO.

On the other hand, my Ford GT (just reading the side of the car, can't you hear my lips moving?) must be safe because when I had a question about what the torque values were for the wheels I had to go through about 22 pages of info on the stereo system and then about 16 pages on how to secure a child seat in my Ford GT, before getting to a little blurb in the back of the owners manual about the wheel torques. Hey, does Ford know their buyers or what? All we care about is strapping our kids into the car and cranking tunes, man! LOL

Ok, fire suit on, ready for testing. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/naughty.gif

Colin

Re: New Ford GT
 

Hey, Colin, as you were regaling us with the story of your cold weather drive it reminded me of some of the early Viper TSBs. There was one for the same problem: A supplier glitch at the factory resulted in oversized heater hose clamps. Dodge used the spring type ones and they were known to -you guessed it, blow off under high pressure.

In the early days I would go each week to my local dealer and peruse the technical service bulletins online, and there were tons of them. My dealer was great, whenever there was a warranty issue, they would supply me the parts and let me do the work in my own garage if I wanted to. Or have me just hold onto the parts in the event we needed to do the job later. They would also let me keep the old parts if the factory never called for their return -such as when there was a TSB on the the toupette (the factory soft top) and they let me keep three of the old ones, including the remnants of one that ejected at 80 mph. I also had several sets of the alloy side pipe covers after they issued a TSB on those. And as for parts availability, Dodge had a mandatory overnight system for any Viper replacement part. If you ordered it and it was anywhere in the parts pipeline, you had it within a day. Amazing.

Dodge was very attentive to their Viper Owners and yes I used that voucher to buy a 96 GTS coupe. Dodge had a list of all of the then current, state-by-state DMV registrations for each currently registered Viper. You had to still own the car to be eligible for a voucher. They sent a application letter to each of those names. You had to respond on a certain date to get the actual voucher. The way it worked was that the voucher was non-transferable and only useable by you. It was a very well thought out system: The car had to be ordered under your name. And if the car arrived and you did not purchase it (such as if the dealer was just paying you to be a straw purchaser for his allocation) the car would be retrieved by Dodge and reallocated to a person on the waiting list. It was essentially an allocation ticket: if the dealer didn't sell you the car at a reasonable price, you simply took your ticket and went to another dealer that would and that first dealer was SOL and lost the allocation. I think I paid $1000 over factory FACTORY INVOICE for Project Pit Viper (which was still $4000 under MSRP) and the reason I gave him the $1000 was he was required to purchase the special rack of tools from Dodge to be eligible to have one of their technicians certifed to be a Viper Tech. (And I knew I was going to be using most of the tools anyway) As for the GTS in '96 I think I paid $500 over invoice for that car with the voucher ticket (from the same little small town dealer in Florida).

Those Viper Invitationals were a hoot. My wife and I spent our first wedding anniversary at the first Viper Owners Invitational (you try telling your wife you're taking her to Detroit for your anniversary and see what she says!) -she actually loved it! and Dodge gave us (my wife) an award for attending.

Re: New Ford GT
 

Very interesting information...keep it coming! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

Re: New Ford GT
 

Colin,
Sorry to hear about your limp hose I have heard you have a problem with keeping your hose firm and not spewing , shall we say prematurely??? LOL LOL LOL

That Saleen/Ford GT/Colin/ limp hose problem was pretty common on the 2005 GTs but I am surprised to hear(or am I not surprised?)that by the 2006 model year the hoses still keep falling off. Also curious why you the customer need to spend about 150K on a car and then you the customer have to open the engine compartment and re-tighten and re-torque everything before you drive it??? After spending a buck fifty is it unreasonable to rely on Ford to have done some quality control prior to sending it to you?

The CGT wrecks were caused by the drivers. A car can't wreck itself. The Porsche dealers( please note I have not defended or recommended them)are not screening the prospective CGT buyer and selling them to whomever can write a check even if they can't even drive a manual trans.

When I bought my CGT, Ford GTs were selling in the 300K range many dealers at this time were paying 275K to other dealers and selling them to their appreciative and very gullible customers for 300K or more. Several Ford GTs were selling at auctions we both attended for 300K or more as well. The CGT MSRP was 448K but I paid less than 400K out the door. Therefore at the time it cost me about 100K more to get a 605 HP Porsche than the Saleen/Ford GT which I thought was reasonable.

The CGT clutch is easy to drive for anyone with a little skill and experience. I hope someday you have a chance to experience it for yourself. The HP on the CGT is actually understated and the CGT is indeed a car that requires all your attention to drive since it has no Ferrari like computer aids and with it's technology revs up to it's redline quicker perhaps than any street car in automotive history. The exhaust note on the CGT is not to be believed it is the nearest we will ever come to driving a car designed to race at Le Mans but sold on the street. It is a car designed and built for a small group of prospective buyers(600 to America) who still appreciate the art of driving. It was not designed for everyone but was indeed built in house by Porsche as is the Viper and Vette and Ferrari, as is EVERY respectable sports car that has ever been built. Interesting to note that both the Ford GT and the Porsche CGT were a two year model run and yet 600 or less CGTs were built for North America and about 4500 Saleen/Ford GTs will be built for North America. I wonder which one received the most quality control and attention?

The lawsuit you mentioned I assume is the one I faxed you to your office for your magazine article? I am not aware of any others pending?

In that suit a good friend of mine who left a wife and a six month old baby and who had no previous driver training or racing experience whatsoever crashed his CGT head on into a wall at about 150 MPH at the California speedway after another car was waved from the pits directly in front of my friend and both he AND HIS PASSENGER in the CGT who also had a wife and young child both were killed. The PASSENGERS family is suing the track, the event organizers , the flagman who waved the car onto the track , the guy driving the car who pulled onto the track and of course Porsche. In other words they are suing everyone possible not just Porsche as you allude to. It is the passengers family who has filed suit not the driver of the Porsche as you were well aware.

I am surprised and pretty disappointed that you would even attempt to use the deaths of two young men one being a good friend of mine to somehow further your cause in this "friendly" debate over the Ford GT? If this is your payback for the race challenge I made to you it is a pretty cheap shot IMHO? Or perhaps my friends death is still a sensitive subject with me since I miss my friend terribly and still grieve for his family and daughter. If I took your statment the wrong way I apologize.

In regard to your discussion about us racing at a Barber Dodge weekend while you were attending Mopars at the strip. I raised the idea because after Barrett Jackson you told me you were going to come out to the Mopar show this year after missing it last year. I was looking forward to seeing(dating) you again and thought we could race in the morning and go to the Mopar show in the afternoon which didn't sound like such a terrible weekend date to me? As you know we have been engaged in a debate over who would be quicker on a race track for the past couple of years and I always believed that Barber Dodge with it's identically prepared race cars and safe racing format would be a fun way to resolve the
debate? I certainly meant no disrespect towards your racing skills and very impressive career.

After about 17 years of racing in one form of motorsports or another(not including Karting) I am pushing 50 years old now and I am too old and beat up and have had two many broken bones and concussions(which explains a lot doesn't it LOL)to go out and try to figure out how to beat the guys with the cheater motors and worry about why the set up on my car needs to be changed every couple of hours as the track changes. I like Barber Dodge because they provide the race cars, they provide the mechanic's , they provide the trackside amenities. I spend more time having fun and socilaizing with my friends then setting the camber on my race car or worrying why another driver who allegedly has the same HP in his as mine pulls away from me as we both go down the straight? It's arrive and drive and have fun at Barber Dodge and they also provide the best racing training of any format in the world IMHO. Michael Andretti's kid Marco just finished the race series and I figure Michael could have sent his kid to any race series in the world but chose barber Dodge so that was a pretty good endorsement IMHO. It's more important to me at my stage in life to have fun at the races then trying to figure out how to squeeze a little more HP out of my Vinatge car. BTW I would have loved to have raced vintage muscle cars when I was your age but unfortunatley today's vintage cars were not vintage then and still were all acvtively being raced. LOL LOL LOL LOL

In regard to buying Charley's GT 350 vintage racer to race against you guys I just bought Charley's 1963 Ford Galaxie wagon that ought to be enough to handle Colin(juggernaut) Cramer on the track? LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

NOTE: Sorry about the excessive LOLs in my post but someone whose name I will not mention(Cramer)sent me a blistering private email indicating my posts lacked enough LOLs when I was referring to him on this forum. LOL LOL

Now if all you Ford GT lovers can coax Gloria back into this debate I might have some actual competition? The juggernaut is a total weenie lightweight. Send in the first string and put this Cramer guy back where he belongs on the bench. LOL LOL LOL

Re: New Ford GT
 

LOL? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

Re: New Ford GT
 

Les,
I in no way meant any disrespect to your friend or his passenger in the CGT wreck, you know that was not my intention. I mentioned the wreck as after you faxed me the lawsuit it seems as if Porsche is being held to task for actually putting your friends and others in harms way due to some inherent flaws in the CGT? There have been other violent crashes with CGT's, and in the case of the lawsuit car, you had told me the seat belts failed and neither air bag deployed. Plus, the car burst into flames as I recall? It was a horrendus and terribly unfortunate incident that hopefully some good will come from. Not the least of which I hope some regulation with these races and club track days in regard to the i.q. level of flagmen and officials. Remember the wreck my car was in at Road America last year? Oh, yes, you remind me all the time, I am sure you do. LOL. That wreck was blamed on the flagman as well. But my point here by mentioning the CGT incident is not only do all of these high profile cars have problems, but also are dangerous. In your prior post you pleaded that I NOT drive the GT on the track. Again, my point is ANYTHING can kill you on the track, even a CGT as awesome as they are.

I am sorry if you think I was disrespecting the deaths of two of your friends and you know I feel terrible for their spouses and young children. I have not only had many friends killed racing, but unfortunately have been there when a few have, as in right next to them. I have watched my buddy's wife get killed in her Mini Cooper at RA in the kink when she spun clockwise during practice and a much faster car hit her broadside immediately in her RHD car, killing her. I have helped put the tent over another buddy's GT1 car when he was killed and it was too guesome to let spectators see and they couldn't get him out of the wreckage. I could go on, but you get the point. If anybody can relate it is me.

I also apologize, I don't remember saying I was going to Mopars at the Strip as I have never been there and never intend to go. I was going to a few years ago when I aksed if I could stay at your place and corrupt your family, but I did not make it as you know.

The thing about Barber Dodge is it does make a level playing field. However, it also is very competitive, more than vintage racing where there is no trophy and everybody (generally) is there for fun. That is why I quit SCCA racing, it is like work. We have a lot of fun vintage racing and it takes a lot more skill to pilot an old car on bias ply tires, plus you get to hang them out really well and the sound/feel is great. There is a huge house cleaning going on in Group 6, they are kicking the cheaters out and pushing "Era Correct" cars, pumping motors to check displacement, etc. I think we will see a very level playing field soon and that is much needed. It was indeed getting crazy and out of hand. For example, my 2 vintage cars are both era correct, the Shelby is 297 CID and the T/A is 306 CID, with period correct suspension, tires, brakes, etc. Charley's car is as well, as far as I know https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/naughty.gif

All I am saying is you should make an effort to join us at least once this year and have some fun. That is what vintage racing is supposed to be about, not who is faster, etc. Heck, you are welcome to come drive my car for the open track at SAAC 31 for a session and see if you get hooked. It's a Ford, so your tatoo matches. LOL

Now lay off these damn posts, I have work to do today!

Colin

Re: New Ford GT
 

Colin,
I never told you the CGT burst into flames because it didn't. I never told you the seat belts failed because they didn't. The passenger side airbag as you can tell from the pictures I sent you to look at may not have fully deployed?

As a matter of fact the carbon fiber moncoque was remarkably intact after hitting a concrete wall head on at 150 MPH. Although the occupants were wearing helmets neither had a HANs type head restraint which may have saved their lives?

I am really curious about why "you never intend" to come to Mopars at the strip? It's one of the biggest Mopar shows and drag race events in the country and as the number one buyer and seller of classic Muscle cars in North America I am real surprised your not "ever intending" to come to the show to look for the best rust free Mopars in the west????

Have we in Vegas done something to offend you? LOL
Is our city not good enough for you?? LOL
Does our Mopar show not attract enough premium cars for you?
Is our drag race event not exciting enough for you? LOL
Don't we have enough nightlife here to compete with Milwaukee???? LOL
Do you have something against Mopars perhaps????LOL

Enquiring minds want to know? LOL

Re: New Ford GT
 

Good mornin fellas https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif...I've got Guinness on the phone--just 48hrs more and you've guys would have set a New World Punch and Judy Record ....... https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ouguysrock.gif

Re: New Ford GT
 

As long as everyone understands I am punch and he is Judy that is OK by me.

If you think this stuff is bad you should see our private emails to each other!

Re: New Ford GT
 

I think I went from mesmorized to tranquilized... LOL LOL LOL

JH

was that enough LOL's ?????

Re: New Ford GT
 

Its a lot easier to just use the https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/haha.gif instead of LOL...that way you two don't have to worry about how to spell it !!! LOL

Re: New Ford GT
 

She had that Camarillo Brillo https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif-------you just get back from Margaritaville.....

Re: New Ford GT
 

Les.......... Gloria here.

Sorry I don't have time to sit around here and debate with you all the time........... however, as I am far from independently wealthy, I do have to work for a living.

A few things here. I'm hoping that you actually know this, as you seem to like to portray yourself as all knowledgable.

Ford has had a working relationship with Rousch Racing for many, many years. Rousch racing has done much of building, tuning, and testing of the low volume engines used in SVT products (along with Ford people). Just like they had a hand in the Ford GT engine. This is no surprise to anyone who has followed SVT as long as I have (back to the old SVO days from 1984).

The thing that I am having a hard time understanding, is your animosity for this car. Do you not understand the logistics of a major manufacturer like Ford, who builds 10's to 100's of thousands of the same vehicle......... taking on the task of producing a grounds up, completely hand built car??? There is nothing on the Ford GT that is production Ford. The closest you get, is the displacement of the engine. Thus, Ford utilized the skilled people that they had at their disposal. This included Rousch Racing for some engine development work, and Saleen (whom they have had a working relationship with, for many years) for the skills of assembling a hand built, very low production, car.

To not utilize the best people you have available, to do the work, is to be stupid.

The car is assembled at
the Wixom assembly facility, in its own building.

You like to keep coming up with statements that would lead one to believe that you think the Viper is a far superior car....... as is the Z06 Vette. Cheaper........ yes. Superior??? In whose eyes???

Lets be a little honest here.......... the Z06 is JUST a Corvette. It gets to play upon the economies of scale, and an existing platform/car, to achieve what it does, at the price it does. Put someone who has no clues about cars, in front of a Z06....... and they will state "nice Vette." No more, and no less.

The Viper has been around for close to 15 years now. I would hope that they had it figured out by now. It certainly wasn't when it came out. Go do research on the horrendous issues that first Gen Vipers had......... then come back and tell me how superior they are to the GT. The cars still have issues.......... some of them dating back since the beginning.......... yet you hold them up as some standard bearer. Sorry, that is a standard that I hope the GT DOESN'T live up to.

You really like to stretch the truth here........ and then hope that those that read this information are too stupid to actually research it themselves.

Case in point........ your constant crying about all the recalls on the GT. There has been 1. Here, I will spell it for you........... one. How about in capitals.......... ONE. You do understand the difference between a recall and a TSB....... right??? You do understand that a recall is safety related........ correct??? Last time I checked, I don't remember leaking seals being a safety issue. However, I may be wrong.......... as I only work on cars (not any longer, except for my own), and owned an auto repair and towing business for 9 years.

Look at the histories of all exotics, including your precious CGT. For $440K, you would think that they could have had that car sorted out a little better than they did. Lawsuits by owners.......... lemon law filings......... horrific resale value...... sorry, but I expected a bit more from Porsche. After all, this is a company that is used to building low production cars.

You complain and whine about everything about the GT, like it is some conspiracy against you.......... and you alone. You talk about dealer markup, yet fail to talk about franchise agreements which do not allow Ford to interfere with pricing at dealership level. You talk about other vehicles like nobody else does this..... yet there is no talk about the $10K dealer markups on Z06's.......... markups on Vipers (you know, to those who were so "unlucky" as to not get an "invitation"), and even the oh so sneaky way that Ferrari dealerships get markups on their cars (their franchise agreements do not allow it, so the owners of the dealerships sell the car to a "friend" who then sells it back to the dealership. The car is now "used" and the dealership can sell it for whatever they want).

You piss and moan about markups, and get mad at the dealerships.......... yet, you should be mad at the consumers. If noone paid the price, noone would try to sell at the price. In other words, everything is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it, at that time.

BTW, the majority of people who post at fordgtforums.com are GT owners. Most of the rest are aspiring to own one. I read there, I read on the Viper forums (both the Viper Club, and Viper Alley), the Ferrari forums (met a guy on there that raced against our Yenko Stinger in the early 70's, in his Lola. How cool is that), Corvette forums, and about anything else imaginable (when I have time).

You want to hear me brag about myself??? Here goes. 41 year old mother of a 4-year-old mini motorhead in the making........ married to a wonderful man. There is no big fancy house (our house is fine, with a beautiful view of the Mogollon Rim), and no $440K cars. What there is, is a love of all performance vehicles........ both those that come from the factory, and those which are well build by individuals. We are happy to restore our Yenko, our L78 '68 Camaro, and our '69 Ford Crewcab F250 4x4.

In other words, we are average Joes, with a love for cars. Your ability to buy expensive cars, makes your knowledge no more, or less, valid than mine.

I challenge you to find all those other recalls on the GT. I already know the true answer to that one. BTW, I'm sorry that you have lost people to racing. Unfortunately, it happens all too often. If every car that wrecked at a racetrack, was a POS........ then there would truly be no good cars available.

Now I've stayed up too late, and have to get up too early, to get my son ready for Preschool.......... then go to work......... for too little money. LOL The least I can do is try to get sleep. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/smile.gif

Re: New Ford GT
 

The engines are assembled at Ford's Romeo engine plant on their niche-line. This is the same line and the same people that hand assembled the SVT Cobra and Lightning engines.

The Ford GT is "assembled and painted" at Saleen in Troy, MI. They basically do the initial assembly, putting together parts made by other suppliers. Mayflower builds the chassis and some of the body.

The final assembly is done at Ford's Wixom plant, where the engine and final interior pieces are installed.

For a more in depth explanation of the GT assembly, Click Here. This should clear a few things up.

I am surprised no one has mentioned where the Viper Competition Coupes are built/assembled. The automotive world is a small one.

Re: New Ford GT
 

Of course I am Partial, but I was shocked and pleased at the same time to see FORD produce this car at all. Dollar for Dollar it is the best Value car at it's level. it looks incredible and creates a major case of Pen*s Envy in Viper owner's all at no extra charge! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/haha.gif

Re: New Ford GT
 

[ QUOTE ]
Dollar for Dollar it is the best Value car at it's level.

[/ QUOTE ]
I would tend to think that title belongs to the new ZO6...the GT has it in spades in the the looks department, but the ZO6 doesn't exactly have a "butter face", and is half the price...

Re: New Ford GT
 

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...emlins/eek.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...emlins/eek.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...emlins/eek.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...emlins/eek.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...emlins/eek.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...emlins/eek.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...emlins/eek.gif

Re: New Ford GT
 

I worked at a dodge dealership many years ago when the viper first came out. They were sold as much as three times as much as msrp????. As well, any dealership in western canada did the same. There were also many issues with the first gen vipers, i can't remember all of them but i know that there was at least one in the shop every week. With todays technology i would imagine the GT is a much better initial build but as with any new model there is always issues.

Re: New Ford GT
 

The interior of the GT is really cool.

I think Charley needs one.

Colin, I guess the dealer supplied tool kit comes in handy, https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/haha.gif

The GT looks cool, Les do they rent them in Vegas?

Re: New Ford GT
 

I couldn't get Huggers link to play and despite what Gloria thinks I do have to work as well. In the minute I had to look this stuff up I found a summary of the Ford GT problems and history completed by respected automotive writer Wallace A. Wyess at www.caranddriver.com

Pay special attention to the Roush/Ford remedy for the leaking rear main seals. Speedi-sleeves that was the high tech solution for the leaking rear main seal????

The article first appeared in the June 2005 Car and Driver magazine.

Re: New Ford GT
 

[ QUOTE ]
I couldn't get Huggers link to play and despite what Gloria thinks I do have to work as well. In the minute I had to look this stuff up I found a summary of the Ford GT problems and history completed by respected automotive writer Wallace A. Wyess at www.caranddriver.com

Pay special attention to the Roush/Ford remedy for the leaking rear main seals. Speedi-sleeves that was the high tech solution for the leaking rear main seal????

The article first appeared in the June 2005 Car and Driver magazine.

[/ QUOTE ]Who Respects Wallace Wyss??? the guy is a Slanderous Clown who has been trying to Drag FORD and SHELBY down for years. Face it Les, no matter what you drag out during your Lunch breaks, nothing you find will make Colin sell his GT and buy Five "3 year old" Vipers with the proceeds. that is about all they are worth at that tender age last time I checked.... https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/haha.gif

Re: New Ford GT
 

Slanderous clown? Stop sugarcoating it, tell us how you really feel.LOL Hey I am a Ford guy and bleed blue oval blue but this whole thing where 29 different factories are needed to build the Ford GT gives me the creeps. LOL

Colin seems to like his when he isn't complaining how slow it is? Maybe I will look into an 06?

Re: New Ford GT
 

LOL...Les will have one at some point....