Re: $200K 1969 Z-28
 

The guy paid 200K for the car, doesn't mean every other one is going to bring that. If a seller thinks his can then put the price on it and see what happens. I think we all get caught up into this. Like Charley said the seller put it up at No reserve and did well, the educated buyer wanted it, so there you go. Simple as that, in my mind it does not have any bearing on what my 69 SHOULD bring today. There were many cars that sold for HALF price of cost. Hope the seller and new owner, Fred, are happy. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/flag.gif

Re: $200K 1969 Z-28
 

Something really puzzles me about this 11K mile car.

It was mentioned that the car had yearly maintenance done to it by the Chevy dealer where it was stored.

If the car truly had 11k miles on it, why would the exhaust need to be changed?

Why would the spiral shocks need to be changed??

And who would change-out the plastic windsheild washer bottle with one that came on a '63 Impala????

And the wear on the pedals doesn't sound logical either.

I have seen many 1969 Camaro "survivor" cars, one locally as a matter of fact, with 25K miles on it, and it doesn't have half the things changed like this car.

The pedals, original chambered exhaust and spiral shocks look great.

Additionally, I don't hear of any documention on this 11K mile car also.... Was there a P.O.P., sales docs, etc???

I'm not throwing stones, and yeah I'm jealous (I wish I had 200K+ to blow on a Camaro), but this car seems to have some real issues that will never be resolved, unless one of the previous owners steps up to the plate and tells the real story.

Re: $200K 1969 Z-28
 

That was one persons opinion on pedal wear. If you are the service manager of the dealership in 1980, maybe you figure the car needs new shocks. These were not Camaro people.

Re: $200K 1969 Z-28
 

Heck fire, if you've ever driven a car with spirals you *do* think it needs new shocks! LOL!! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

Re: $200K 1969 Z-28
 

I can see it next year, 1000 Z 28's at auction for people dreaming of 200k, LOL. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/flag.gif

Re: $200K 1969 Z-28
 

[ QUOTE ]
Larry Christensen and I looked this car over pretty closely and here's what we came up with. Here's a list of stuff that was not right so all of you can decide for yourself. I did not like the worn pedal pads. A low mileage car would have pristine pedal pads. This was not a cowl hood car either but yet one was installed? Speedo cable plug was knocked out for wires to run through this hole, There were signs of paint work and clear coating too. Have at it guys, here's the list of issues.

Jerry
1. pedal pads worn
2. spiral shocks missing
3. walker replacement exhaust system
4. 3/4" holes in the core support for hood pins
5. cowl hood was installed, it's not a cowl hood car
6. none of the OEM cowl hardware is there.
7. repro air cleaner with chrome lid
8. intake has been off and there are flat washers under the intake bolts
9. 68 Z28 style smog pump with pressure relief valve
10. smog hoses were replaced with regular hose and non factory stampings
11. water pump replaced
12. master cylinder replaced
13. engine lift hooks and vacuum advance hose clip missing
14. GM glass washer bottle on the fender well
15. black replacement grille that was painted silver
16. has 1970 repro style Firestone F70x15" tires.

[/ QUOTE ]

Interesting observations Jerry. I didn't see the car. But based on your observations. I don't see how how this car qualifys as a "True Survivior". 200k for that car is alot of coin. JMHO. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/rolleyes.gif

Re: $200K 1969 Z-28
 

I agree with you Pat. $205,000 even if it was perfect. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...emlins/eek.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...emlins/eek.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif

Re: $200K 1969 Z-28
 

No one has mentioned the most obvious reason for the pedal wear, shocks,etc... just how hard were those 11,000 miles put on?

Re: $200K 1969 Z-28
 

Charlie brings up many good points here. Yes, you do have to step up to the plate in the seller's seat. You can hit a home run on a sale and it can go the other way too. I've seen that happen many times. In the case of this 69 Z that sold for over $200K, I think it was a dealer that bought the car? Maybe Charlie would know better about who the players are here and can fill us in. Dealers and sellers that are in the business have a much better idea about the market and where to sell. People who don't do this everyday have a much better chance of getting burned. Experience is the key. I would not put the 69 Z28 survivor that I purchased up for sale without a reserve. I work too hard for my money and I'm not going to throw it away on a pipe dream that I'll get $200K for my car but I want fair market value. Most of the nice cars don't even go through auctions, they are sold privately.

Getting back to the green car that sold at BJ. There were more than maintenance issues here. I have seen dozens of survivor cars over the past 20 years or so with more mileage than 12K and in every case, 95% of the original parts were still on the car. 69SS350 brings up very good points about the car as I stated earlier. These are valid issues but if the buyer does not care, than he takes the risk. Barrett Jackson does not set the everyday sales figures for these Camaros but it does raise the sales barometer to a higher level. Count on that.

One last point, after looking through my appraisal records over the past 10 years, every original paint low mileage Camaro that I've inspected has still had it's original exhaust on the car. Think of it this way, if the paint lives in an environment that is healthy to the vehicle, the exhaust system will survive too. Most parts fail because they are in the everyday hostile elements. Cars that live a pampered life will fair much better. Make sense? As to the pedal pads, I looked at the ones in my race car, I have 12 seasons (12 years) of letting the clutch out, braking at 122mph, shifting gears and beating the hell out of the car. The Srickler car's pads are in mint condition compared to the ones in the green Z28. This is one issue that would make me wonder about the true mileage of this Z28. Many certified appraisers look for the same tell tails

Re: $200K 1969 Z-28
 

OK Jerry, now you are giving away trade secrets. Rick's First Generation will have a switchboard meltdown tomorrow with guys ordering pedal pads!!

Seriously, I for one really appreciate your input. I am almost certain this car was previously discussed either here or at Camaros.net.

I always appreciate Charley's input, and respect his opinion. OK enough butt kissing for now.

Lynn

Re: $200K 1969 Z-28
 

side note- having worked at a Chevy dealer as kid in the 80's, for the most part the goons that twist the wrenches were not car people it was just a job and somehow they stuck at it over the years and the older they were the less of a car guy they were and they could care less about how neat a piece they were working on, I was in heaven...

and most were more than happy to pull a perfectly good part and toss them to get a little more time out of the ticket.

I can see all the items changed on this Z no problem, as it was probably pulled out of the basement or where ever and was to have anything changed that looked bad...I did not look at the pedal pad wear so I will not go there.

we had many old customers that would swing in yearly and just say do what ever it needs..and boy did they... https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/scholar.gif

Re: $200K 1969 Z-28
 

Exactly...

Re: $200K 1969 Z-28
 

one more side note- this is a little off the subject but I had a flash back....being a poor kid working at the dealer...we did some things that were not exactly cool...when a nice clean muscle car came in..well we switched stuff off them onto our cars...little things that made our cars more correct and no one would care anyway...well I remember trading the deluxe pedals to get the stainless trim in one car for my base stuff plus the rubbers were nice and not worn on the corner of the brake pedal... and being I was pretty tight with a certain boss, I had access to things and places not many did...so maybe the lot lizard did some switcha roo action...been known to happen... https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/blush.gif

Re: $200K 1969 Z-28
 

[ QUOTE ]
...we did some things that were not exactly cool...when a nice clean muscle car came in..well we switched stuff off them onto our cars...

[/ QUOTE ]

How scarry is this? Ever wonder if parts were switched
with lesser quality parts ( non-high performance )? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/hmmm.gif

I recently took my Cobra in for some work. When I got the
car back ( in two days ), the transmission was grinding and
it honestly felt like another box. Now you did it! Got me
thinking those bad thoughts about dealer service
technicians. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif

Re: $200K 1969 Z-28
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
...we did some things that were not exactly cool...when a nice clean muscle car came in..well we switched stuff off them onto our cars...

[/ QUOTE ]

How scarry is this? Ever wonder if parts were switched
with lesser quality parts ( non-high performance )? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/hmmm.gif

I recently took my Cobra in for some work. When I got the
car back ( in two days ), the transmission was grinding and
it honestly felt like another box. Now you did it! Got me
thinking those bad thoughts about dealer service
technicians. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif

[/ QUOTE ]


what year Cobra???? when I had mine last year I heard all kinds of bad things about the newer 5spds and how little banging they took before they were grinding gears...guys were even going after Ford legally about it on the Stang boards...the sad part is you probably have the orig box in it but the lot lizard or the mechanic went around the block in it and punished it...you couldnt make me take a perf car to the dealer if I owned one...been on and in and seen to many banzi runs in cust cars... https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ins/3gears.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ins/3gears.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ins/3gears.gif

hey that was fun..go park car..hey Fred you wanna drive a real fast Cobra...yea...well that green one in the corner is the fastest one I have ever been in...no sh*&...10 mins later..varoom out the gate it goes... https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ins/3gears.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ins/3gears.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ins/3gears.gif

sorry if I am making you feal bad...some times the truth stings a little.

B.

Re: $200K 1969 Z-28
 

The bottom line is the car is sold, it was a legitimate purchase done with a no reserve auction, and the results could have been the total opposite.. the seller took a risk, as did the buyer, and both are happy. It's easy for everyone to ridicule and analyze everything a week after the auction, fuss over detail/replacement items, nit-pick, speculate, and try to somehow relate it to their own personal cars that have been sitting in the garage the whole time this Z was on the block for sale with no reserve....but the fact remains that the buyer and seller are both happy with the end results. B-J is a unique situation for a buyer in that regardless of what he pays, there will be 500 experts in the peanut gallery afterwards to comment on the sale, and why the seller/buyer were smart, foolish, etc. I know i would much rather buy a car privately and spare myself the intense scrutiny of people that were in no way connected to the sale. My thoughts are that many cars were sold for what seemed like an exuberant amount, but there were also many cars that sold for prices that were surprisingly low... just depended on who wanted what, and who they were bidding against... as well as who happened to be around when a particular car came across. If you ran the same 900+ cars through another auction this week, many of the results would be completely different, and everyone would be all up in arms about the selling price of a different group of cars. JMO.
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/flag.gif

Re: $200K 1969 Z-28
 

I think that about covers it. Case closed.

Re: $200K 1969 Z-28
 

And don't forget, it takes 2 interested parties to run up the price. So even if the winner didn't contniue to bid that high, the 2nd high bidder was willing to go almost as high. Supply and demand.

Re: $200K 1969 Z-28
 

Sometimes things make you say hmmm https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/hmmm.gif....Now imagine if me and Tony (Mr.T) owned a dozen or so 69 Z/28's between us and we took one and bid the hell out of it at BJ, all the way to 300K, then everyone who owns one now thinks his or hers is worth that or a percentage of that price depending on how thiers compares. Now me and Tony have 11 more of these hot little cars that are worth 5 times as much as they were a day before. No better exposure and what a marketing gimick. All for the small fee of the premiums. Better still if some drunk runs the price up to more than you counted on and he gets stuck with it....Just a point to ponder here.... https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/hmmm.gif

Re: $200K 1969 Z-28
 

Auction results have nothing to do with a car's listing or selling price though. Auctions happen at the spur of the moment. We could all list our 69 Z28's at $205K now and I bet 99.9% of them won't sell.

Re: $200K 1969 Z-28
 

[ QUOTE ]
Auction results have nothing to do with a car's listing or selling price though. Auctions happen at the spur of the moment. We could all list our 69 Z28's at $205K now and I bet 99.9% of them won't sell.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not true, would you sell you car for 130K right now? thats more than any other Z before this years BJ...You know one just sold for over 200K so why give yours away....Its all relative, Einstien wasnt stupid...$=Z/28 squared

Re: $200K 1969 Z-28
 

How much have prices on decent Z/28's increased since BJ...those 35-40K cars are now alot more...

Re: $200K 1969 Z-28
 

I spoke to the second highest bidder. He was very bummed that he did not get the car. He might even try to buy it from the high bidder. He bought the L78 69 convert last year and a couple years ago he bought the killer low mile 68 L78 Camaro.

Re: $200K 1969 Z-28
 

Do the guy a favor, and tell him to contact Jerry.
Sounds to me that the car Jerry has is tens times better than what was at B/J.

IMHO......

Re: $200K 1969 Z-28
 

The Barrett-Jackson car has 11000 miles. I think Jerry's had over twice the mileage. The guy wanted the 11000 mile car. If he wanted to fluff it he could make it look correct, orig. and have half the miles. I'll take the 11000 mile car... But in the real world I'll do something else anyway.

Re: $200K 1969 Z-28
 

Sam, there have been quite a few sales of 69 Z28's over $100K in the past year or 2. This one at BJ may appear to take up the price of similar cars, but in reality I don't think there are too many low mile cars that were never titled. The fact that it was never titled seems to be the big selling point on this car(I'm not sure why, that has no extra meaning to me). The auction will cause prices to go up like it always does but it's really hard to see what the actual effect is if you aren't comparing apples to apples. But it's really up to buyers to what they are willing to pay in the end.

Re: $200K 1969 Z-28
 

Charlie,

I wouldn't bank on that 11K mileage as being real. You are taking the seller's word and there is no way to prove it. I personally do not believe the mileage is real and neither does Larry Christensen. Yes, my Z has twice the mileage but it is twice the car. I will bet my reputation on that! Factory chambered, factory floor mats, 4.10 rear, build sheet and all the original parts are in this car........shocks, exhaust, master cylinder, etc, etc. Anyone, and I mean anyone is free to come by my shop and inspect this car in person. The ink stampings are still on the carb. I didn't see that on the 11K car. I also sent you a couple of photos, didn't I?

Jerry

Re: $200K 1969 Z-28
 

[ QUOTE ]
An 11,000 mile Z-28 just sold for $205,000. This is crazy.
James

[/ QUOTE ]

Looks like the train left the station https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/smirk.gif
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1969-CHEV...1QQcmdZViewItem

Re: $200K 1969 Z-28
 

You gotta believe that the 69 Z-28 "recreation" factory in Portland, OR just added another shift.

Re: $200K 1969 Z-28
 

Scammer ebay listing - note the mention to buy it now for $8000...

Re: $200K 1969 Z-28
 

Jerry...You and Larry quite often have very different opinions from mine. I have no idea what has been done to your car or the auction car so lets just agree to disagree.

Re: $200K 1969 Z-28
 

Charlie,

Do you know the dealer who bought the car? Someone told me his name is Fred something???? A Mopar collector-dealer? Maybe you can fill me in. Just curious,

Thanks,

Jerry

Re: $200K 1969 Z-28
 

[ QUOTE ]
Charlie,

Do you know the dealer who bought the car? Someone told me his name is Fred something???? A Mopar collector-dealer? Maybe you can fill me in. Just curious, Fred Enlehart in a small town in Minnesota and I mean small no traffic lights I was at his shop 2 months ago. He is a BIG time mopar guy and has some AWESOME cars. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...emlins/eek.gif

Thanks,

Jerry

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: $200K 1969 Z-28
 

Jerry, I think if you sold your cars at no reserve next year they would probably hit a new high mark as many would rather take their chances on a car from the most renowned Z/28 expert on the entire planet than some guy with a car that no one has ever heard of..

Re: $200K 1969 Z-28
 

Thanks for the info Hugger69copo. That is the last name I remember hearing at the BJ auction but didn't know who he was. I wonder if he's the guy who owns Jere Stahls's 1966 NHRA World Championship Belvedere? A mopar in the same league as the Ray Allen car.

Thanks for the kind compliments SamLBing. I've owned most of my Camaros for better than 20 years and as long as I'm healthy enough to enjoy and drive them, they'll be around for another 20+ years. The 69 Z that I have was something that I lucked into from a customer. He had owned the car for 31 years and contacted me to see if I had an interest in buying the car as he had lost his interest in the hobby.

Thanks,

Jerry

Re: $200K 1969 Z-28
 

Jerry, is your car still for sale?

Re: $200K 1969 Z-28
 

Yes it is. I can send photos if you have an interest. Just send me an e-mail to [email protected] and I'll forward them to you.

Thanks,

Jerry

Re: $200K 1969 Z-28
 

Jerry...If you are going to keep touting your Z28 on this site, please price it.

Re: $200K 1969 Z-28
 

Jerry, at this point it is probably easiest to set a price by just figuring how much profit you want to make on the car.

Re: $200K 1969 Z-28
 

In 1981 I bought a 12,000 mile '69 Indy Pace car from Fink Chevrolet in Horicon, WI. Mr. Fink left the car in the MSO until one week before I purchased the car from him. The car was on a grease rack for 12 years, they used the car in summer and had a trailer hitch on the car. If this car went through BJ today people would say, why does it have signs of a trailer hitch (drilled holes in the bumper and trunk), why did the dealer undercoat and Z Bart the car (who knows), where are the original tires (he changed them right away), why is the rear window changed on the soft top (cracked one winter), why is the front fender painted so horribly (sign fell over on the car)? It was a great car, but Mr. Fink didn't give a hoot about putting a trailer hitch on the car and drilling holes in the door jambs to rustproof the car, he put 10 gallons of undercoat on the car, also. He did all this to rustproof the car and then never drove it in rain or snow. What I'm saying is that folks did strange things to cars that they didn't drive, things that are contrary to logic like rust proofing and undercoating (heavily) a car that you're going to put on a grease rack and drilling holes in good bumpers and trunk for a trailer hitch. He also added a remote drivers side mirror and a passenger side mirror along with front and rear bumper guards.