Re: Petition GM for all GM car info ???
 

GM and Toyota have been partners for years, co-producing Nova's and Corollas, Geo and other Toyota models. GM is also partners with Subaru, Suzuki, Izusa, Kia and other companies in Europe. The motor in the Saturn Vue is made by Honda. Very reliable. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/frown.gif
Ford is part owner of Mazda, and builds cars in Flat Rock MI that roll off the line as both Ford & Mazda.
Chrysler has been part owner of Mitsubishi for years, etc. etc.
It's a global market. Get over it.

Re: Petition GM for all GM car info ???
 

I buy only cars that my neighbours make.

a proud retired member of UAW and CAW.
and as far as the signatures go for it where there is a will their's away.
suprss70

Re: Petition GM for all GM car info ???
 

I'll sign the petition.

Maybe if I tell GM that I'll sell my Honda and buy a GM daily driver, they'll give me the paperwork for my cars?!? I might be dreaming.

Re: Petition GM for all GM car info ???
 

[ QUOTE ]
Hylton...exactly. I don't buy the lawsuit thing either.

Who's forehead do we sign for this? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

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Does any one have info on lawsuits from the PHS data release?? That should have been the "trial" (no pun intended)test for GM on this issue - right??


Merry Christmas to all!

Phil

Re: Petition GM for all GM car info ???
 

There are no lawsuits against GM for providing PHS info because this is a myth created by people with no legal training. I dont mean to belabor the point but as an attorney I can say there is no basis for suing GM for providing any documentation on how a car was orginally shipped.

But you know...turning the whole situation on its head, how about if we all get together and file a class action lawsuit forcing GM to release the info based on the fact that GM has documentation that could authenticate our cars values in the event of a loss? Hmmmmmmmmmm....

Re: Petition GM for all GM car info ???
 

I'd sign on with the petition, but I don't like the class action idea. As the owner of a fairly big business for the last 15 years, I can see some downside for the wholesale release of records to the public, if anyone thinks that a statute of limitations is actually observed these days, think again where large sums of money are perceived to exist.
As for their products, maybe it's the luck of the draw, but our 99' SS Camaro has held up great with 80K + on the odo.

Re: Petition GM for all GM car info ???
 

That is what I like to see!! Ideas on how to accomplish what we want. I kinda feel that the petetion may have better results. For it to work we will have to enlist the help of every GM car forum and promoters of events around the country.

I foresee us growing as a group as more and more "CAR nuts" like us learn about this forum. That can't be bad in itself. Perhaps more Yenko,BM, Dana, and regular production Muscle Ect. are discovered because of our envolvement in this endeavor?

njsteve: I am not a attorny so I really do appreciate the legal slant that you provide. I was pretty sure that either the statute of limitations or some other legal barrier would protect GM. Lets face it the truth is the truth and you can't win in court if you can prove that you are telling the truth.

Now for all those Ass**les that are making phony cars that didn't come with those options from the factory, I predict that they will be moving out of the country or going into hiding. I bet these will bring some local lawsuits and I relish reading of them getting it put to them in a court of law. I doubt that any of us on here would feel sorry for them. I do feel for those that fell for the BS cars that are already setting in someones collection that turn out to be fakes though!

I think it would create a lot of goodwill for GM to undertake this and that has to equate to sales somewhere down the line.

Guys please keep the Ideas coming. I love to hear the different slants on this subject, that each of you have.



Dee & Pantera want to wish each and every one of you one out there today a very, Merry Christmas !!!
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...iggthumpup.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

Re: Petition GM for all GM car info ???
 

I was just kidding about the class action thing. But it is such an urban legend that GM wont release info for fear of lawsuits, it just irritates me any time it gets mentioned. If it was true, PHS would be sued on an hourly basis because there are 10 times the amount of GTOs out there than were ever built by Pontiac. It makes the 50,000 fake 69 Z28s out there seem insignificant by comparison.

Re: Petition GM for all GM car info ???
 

[ QUOTE ]
there are 10 times the amount of GTOs out there than were ever built by Pontiac. It makes the 50,000 fake 69 Z28s out there seem insignificant by comparison.

[/ QUOTE ]


That is the best laugh I have had today. I was thinking there was only 40,000 fake Z-28's but who's counting??? I know one thing though. I would love to be a fly on the wall when GM did ever post the truth for all to read. Man would there be a mass exidous out of town for a bunch of guys before they got shot by some of the people they scamed.

Pantera

Re: Petition GM for all GM car info ???
 

Does anyone on the Board here know Jim Mattison? Seems like he would be the person to talk to. The way I understand it, he has already put lots of time in this. Possibly he could recomend a direction to go in. Get his thoughts on a petiton doing any good.

Re: Petition GM for all GM car info ???
 

He is one that I do want to chat with about this if anybody has a email address for him please email me with the info.

Pantera

Re: Petition GM for all GM car info ???
 

Neither GM nor the PBS is libel for what happens, and have never been to court. You see, the PHS paperwork you receive is a legal document, thus stands on its own merits. This according to Jim Mattison.

Re: Petition GM for all GM car info ???
 

Jim is quite correct, as the document falls under the "Business Records" exception to the hearsay rule. If someone was to sue a prior seller for a bogus car, they would simply place the PHS sheet into evidence as it is an official record of GM. No one at GM gets called as a party to the lawsuit.

Re: Petition GM for all GM car info ???
 

Steve,

I can appreciate that, but here is where my point of reference lays. If GM does in fact have records of the builds where they have claimed along that they don't, doesn't that open them up to the following suit. A guy files claim against GM stating that GM could have released these documents years earlier and prevented him from buying a car that he thought was a real Copo? Couldn't they argue that had GM released that info years earlier that it could very well have prevented a lot of misrepresented deals. Doesn't this give merit to a lawsuit against GM?

Re: Petition GM for all GM car info ???
 

That point is only valid if in fact they have the records. No one has gone on record to say the absolutely have the records. Just alot of "seems like" or "believe they have". Just speculation at this point...

Re: Petition GM for all GM car info ???
 

Bingo!
And most likely why they are "unknowingly" discarding those records everyday.

Re: Petition GM for all GM car info ???
 

It's probably also only valid if this person can prove that they requested the info from GM and was told that the records don't exist. If the car was bought from a private person and contains a sold "as is" clause then there is really no recourse the seller can always claim that the conversion was done by someone previous to them as well. It's buyer beware, if you don't do your homework your out the dough.

Re: Petition GM for all GM car info ???
 

[ QUOTE ]
It makes the 50,000 fake 69 Z28s out there seem insignificant by comparison.

[/ QUOTE ]

Like this one on Ebay now?
http://i22.ebayimg.com/03/i/03/14/99/c3_1_b.JPG

50,001 now. Thank god for TrimTags.com or wherever these are coming from.

Re: Petition GM for all GM car info ???
 

[ QUOTE ]
Steve,

I can appreciate that, but here is where my point of reference lays. If GM does in fact have records of the builds where they have claimed along that they don't, doesn't that open them up to the following suit. A guy files claim against GM stating that GM could have released these documents years earlier and prevented him from buying a car that he thought was a real Copo? Couldn't they argue that had GM released that info years earlier that it could very well have prevented a lot of misrepresented deals. Doesn't this give merit to a lawsuit against GM?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, it would be thrown out. Unfortunately in our wonderfully litigious society most people seem to believe the following mantra: "It's never my fault, who can I sue?". You cant sue GM for not preventing you from getting ripped off. The responsibility is on the buyer, absent total misrepresentation, to verify what he's got. Didnt we all see the Brady Bunch episode on "Caveat Emptor"? where Greg buys the 57 Chevy???? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/naughty.gif for $350 and gets ripped off.

I equate these lawsuits to the "Wrongful Life" lawsuits. You're probably familiar with "Wrongful Death" where someone rightfully sues another person, like a drunk driver for killing their family member. Well, in wrongful life lawsuits, they sue the doctor for allowing their "defective" child to be born claiming: if I had known the child would have had this defect, I would have aborted him. You have people suing for all sorts of defects like brain damage, birth defects, attention deficit disorder, failure to clean up their rooms, etc. But who's to blame? Are you really going to try to make a doctor pay for letting your child exist? .....Are you going to make GM pay for letting you buy a "birth defective" car? And where does it stop? Do you sue for the car having the wrong shade of green on it now, versus what is was built with? Rallye green vs. British racing Green?

Just thought I'd start y'all on a nice slippery slope. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

Re: Petition GM for all GM car info ???
 

All this lawsuit talk is a red herring as Steve has indicated. Larry, I will send you Jim's email addy if you do not have it already.

Obviously Larry cannot run this by himself. We are going to have to 'divide and conquer'. Anyone volunteering to be part of this drive should contact Larry and identify any organizations/clubs/memberships/people you have influence with so that you can help get members of said org. 'signed up'.

Anyone with influence in publications (you know who you are), and television are also incouraged to volunteer to take part.

If you don't have any relationship with any orgs, there will still be plenty of work to be shared here so your help will still be appreciated.

As Larry said, one year of actively recruiting signatures can have positive results but for the people involved with organizing this, a year can go by very quickly. The sooner we get going, the better. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ins/3gears.gif

Re: Petition GM for all GM car info ???
 

Guys I have had a ton of postive response. I can only be the instigator of the final result this may have. There is no way that I can canvas the entire country with out help.

Please any of you out there that are able to help collect signatures contact me by email. These will need to be collected in black ink, on one standard form, on white paper at every carshow, autorace, club meeting, and any other "COLLECTOR CAR" event that anybody can think of this upcoming year. I will be at BJ with one and try to collect all that I can there.

Just remember, I am just a one man band and I can't be everywhere. If this is to be done right, I will have to have hundreds of helpers to collect these around the country and then in Dec of '05, mail them to me.

It is most important that we do not get hundreds of Bogus or duplicate signatures, as that would water down the impact that It would have. We must deal straight with GM to inpress the powers that be, to release the records. I can only hope that they get behind this with the same enthusam that most of us on this forum have.

It only takes one GM person in the right place to feel we have merrit with our request, to open the right door and make this happen. I am sure that Jim M. has a very interesting slant on why this is not happened so far. I can only hope this may be of a help, for it to come to fruitation after all the work he has done. If he is reading this, I hope he will contact me with his thoughts and if anyone has his email address please send it to me.


To all of you reading this, Please keep the ideas coming. Good or bad you just never know where we may come up with that winning combination. I never finished High School so I will be making sure that the final wording is run by a much more learned person than I am. The final form should be as perfect as it can be. I hope to have the basic form ready to distribute, by the 15th of Jan.

Thanks for all the encouragment, help and especially the good ideas.

Pantera