Re: Million dollar camaro....
 

Well, the JL8 option became a reality(even though it was expensive) and the cowl hood became an option as well, but the crossram setup would not have made the best daily driver. I like the fact that Chevrolet was doing all this "behind the scenes" despite the fact that they weren't into racing. Chevrolet, Ford and Mopar came up with some interesting parts because of the Trans Am race series.

Re: Million dollar camaro....
 

Was the R&D on the cowl hood done during the 68 model year or 69....Was it availiable to the Trans-Am teams for testing even though not it was not an RPO to run.I'm just trying to figure out why the delay in offering the hood in 69 if it was used so early on a 68 demo.Was it a retool for a single carb application and the rest of the components necessary plus production in steel?Is the AIM section on the hood dated? I don't have a 69 AIM......


Steve

Re: Million dollar camaro....
 

the cars not an early Demo. It's a late July build of 1968. The JL8 option was already issued for the 69 model year by that time. Look in your Assembly manual. The RPO was released on 5/6/68 and the first Revision to the RPO was made on June 2 1968, so it had already been issued 2 months prior to the convertible Z28 being thought of. the car was a test bed for nothing, it was a car built for a VP with all the high performance options the engineering group had, or had on the drawing board at the time. The car is unique and has a place in the history of the Camaro line certainly, but I think alot more has been attributed to it than what it was intended to be. It had nothing to do with saving the Z28 for the 69 model year. It was built to late in the year to have an impact on anything already planned for 69. No one saw it, except for Pete Estes neighbors, it never toured the US in car shows or sat in dealers show rooms for people to see. It's just another example of a special perk executives in GM could get.

I'm sure it's worth a million bucks to someone, and of course I'd like to own it, all I need to do is collect about 995,000 more dollars.

Re: Million dollar camaro....
 

I'm not sure if anyone can answer this question.
Was the crossram setup not designed to use the off road cam?
Does this one off car use that cam shaft or was the crossram tuned to use the production cam? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif

Re: Million dollar camaro....
 

[ QUOTE ]
The cross ram and rear disc were parts that could be bought over the counter at that time for racing purposes(such as Trans Am), but could not be ordered as a RPO for a street vehicle.... Pete's rag top Z was an experiment in the feaseability of these hi performance add ons having the ability to function with some degree of normal operation in traffic conditions. The package passed the test and was then introduced as a dealer available RPO.
Thanks,
Motown

[/ QUOTE ]

So what's the verdict, were the parts available and this car a perk? Or, was the car an R&D effort?

Re: Million dollar camaro....
 

By "early demo" I ment early for 1969.I'm talking about the hood only.I understand the July build date on the Z-28. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gifDo you have the AIM info,date,for the cowl hood..... I can agree with the perk,just wonder why none of the race teams were as quick to get the same deal.Both the drag and T/A cars..... https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif


Steve

Re: Million dollar camaro....
 

ZL2 option was drawn 9/5/68, released 9/12/68. Became public (in dealer literature) around Thanksgiving 68, but didn't hit the factory floor until late December of 68.

Re: Million dollar camaro....
 

Interesting info Mark... so if the ZL2 hood wasn't even designed until September, theres no chance a July built 68 Camaro could have left the factory with it on there, unless it was installed much later (months) than the car was assembled... Were the JL8 and crossram pieces added directly after the car was built?

Re: Million dollar camaro....
 

I'm sure the hood that was installed on it orignally was a prototype that was used to develop the production version. The sheetmetal shop must have had one or more mocked up well before it reached the RPO stage. Plus the assembly manual is just the instructions for assembling it onto the car, not the engineering drawings to have the hood actually stamped out and assembled by whoever produced it for GM. The one on the 68Z may have been one of the batch that the production stampings were made from, or just one used in the engineering and design shops at GM. It's a fiberglass hood now, don't know if it was originally a fiberglass, or a steel hood. Either way I would expect it to be considerably different than a production 69 ZL2 hood.

Re: Million dollar camaro....
 

I was with the understanding that it came with a prototype Fiberglas Crossram hood not a steel one.

Re: Million dollar camaro....
 

It is a fiberglass crossram hood and it is different than a "production" 69 FG hood, see attached

Re: Million dollar camaro....
 

69 "production" FG crossram hood

Re: Million dollar camaro....
 

Mark, the JL8 RPO might have been issued early on but the option was not actually available until later in the year. The sport wheel became an RPO but none were ever installed on a car. I've seen some paperwork showing that the JL8 option was not available at times during the 69 production year. What makes me curious now is if this 68 Z28 convertible had factory headers added to it when it ran the crossram. Motown, do you know if it had headers at that time? I can't see a crossram 302 being an easy car to drive with stock exhaust manifolds.

Re: Million dollar camaro....
 

Cross Ram not Cross Fire https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/burnout.gif

Re: Million dollar camaro....
 

Who did the restoration on this car? Maybe ask them, perhaps they did some research before bolting the stuff on? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif

Re: Million dollar camaro....
 

Then how did Al Maynard find one in a car built around the same time? The JL8 in the car has to be a HD service part axle not a production axle. Who knows how long those were around before the RPO was initiated. GM was using the service axle in the 68 TA racing series weren't they?

Re: Million dollar camaro....
 

Thanks for the dates Mark.I've never questioned the car only speculated that this "may" have been the first use of the Zl-2 hood.Interesting car..I'd love to stare at the binder of documents some day.. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

Joe,that was what I was thinking....It would not make much sense to install this package in Sept,had to be done in July.Why put it all on last years model and try to impress Estes.. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif


Steve

Re: Million dollar camaro....
 

The headers came on the car, the original paint markings are still on the date coded rear axle which are J56.
Motown https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

Re: Million dollar camaro....
 

There is a big difference between the JL8 option and the HD service disc brake rear. I assume this 68 has the HD service package rear which is technically not the JL8 rear. Matt, does the paperwork with the car show the headers as part of the Z28 option?

Re: Million dollar camaro....
 

Jeff,
It reads as the headers were part of the Z-28 option but came in the trunk to be installed by the dealer or owner. If you can get the spring 2003 issue of Muscle Car Review, it has Don Johnsons Nash Bridges Cuda on the cover, there is an article in this issue called "18 Days to Glory" which goes into detail about this Z, why it was built, and what options were installed before giving it to Pete Estes.
Motown https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

Re: Million dollar camaro....
 

Will a set of headers FIT in the trunk of a 68 convertible?

Re: Million dollar camaro....
 

Here's a pic that a buddy sent to me. Looks like this 'million dollar camaro' might have been a pace car?

Re: Million dollar camaro....
 

They sometimes have old programs that you can look at and just might find a answer to that question.

Re: Million dollar camaro....
 

Cool picture, Marlin! Sheesh, now it has Pace Car provenance, too...no wonder it's gettin' the big bucks https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/wink.gif

Re: Million dollar camaro....
 

I don't think it's known if this is the same car....wonder if there is anything in the documents with the car pertaining to this...if not maybe there is another one hiding out there https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/naughty.gif

Re: Million dollar camaro....
 

It is the same car. The photo was taken at the Road America Can-Am race (Elkhart Lake, WI) in August 1968. The car is not even a month old. Bill Mitchell traditionally brought one-off cars there every year to show off to the public. I remember seeing him bring his ZL1 Berlinetta. These cars always attracted a lot of attention, which I'm sure was the point. Ex-Formula 1 Grand Prix driver Sterling Moss driving a one-of-a-kind Z28 Convertible with a special never-before-seen hood was just the kind of promotional thing Bill Mitchell and GM loved.

-Jon

1967 Z28 street car
1967 Z28 Trans Am race car
1967 Z28 Registry

Re: Million dollar camaro....
 

If this is the same car wouldn't a "correct" restoration have included the Road America pace car graphics?

Also, if these graphics done in August wouldn't this be after Pete Estes had finished with the car?

Re: Million dollar camaro....
 

The Pace Car lettering was just a set of decals. The car was not specifically built with the sole intent for it to be the Road America pace car but it is one part its history. For those of you who are wondering if this is a different car, exactly how many dark colored '68 Z28 convertibles with white interior, prototype cowl hood, and remote side mirror are you aware of? This is THE car, 1 of 1.

-Jon

1967 Z28 street car
1967 Z28 Trans Am race car
1967 Z28 Registry

Re: Million dollar camaro....
 

Cool https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/cool.gif

Re: Million dollar camaro....
 

That's a great picture! Imagine all the people that saw the car and never thought it was anything special.

Re: Million dollar camaro....
 

In regards to the '68 Z convertible, I just received a call from a member of the Maynard family, who own the car in question. The car has not sold, but it is for sale. And, at this time, no one is brokering the car for them. If interested in the car, you may contact them direct, or myself and I will be glad to put you in touch with one of them. You might also want to visit with Jim Mattison, who would be the one to answer any questions about how/why the car was built.

Re: Million dollar camaro....
 

[ QUOTE ]
This fine example of Chevrolet history now has a new owner of which I brokered the sale, I will leave it up to the new owner to make the announcement when he feels the time is right. Dont ask who or how much as I guard that type of personal information.
Motown

[/ QUOTE ]

What happened? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif

Re: Million dollar camaro....
 

Must not have happened Joe...wanna go in halfs on it ?

Re: Million dollar camaro....
 

I'm gonna start playing the Lottery. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...iggthumpup.gif

Re: "Factory Built"
 

Just to revive an old discussion...
This morning on "My Classic Car", Dennis Gage was riding in a 1956 Lincoln Mark II that was built for William Clay Ford. WCF apparently drove this car for a number of years, and in 1968 had it retrofitted by Ford engineers with the Mark III drivetrain, including a 460 engine, C6 trans, and disc brakes.

The reason I mention this is that the AACA gave this car factory original status as the changes to the car were completed "inside the walls of Ford" as Gage put it on the show. Applying this logic would make the Estes car "factory-built".

Interesting to note that the only Camaros AACA recognizes in their Factory High Performance class are COPO and "Yenko" Camaros (see AACA judge's manual Class 36B on page 37). They recognize "all" Chevelle SS396 and SS454 cars, but no Camaro L78 or L89 cars!
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif-Sam

Re: "Factory Built"
 

My father is an AACA member and he keeps saying to me that they need younger members. That they need the muscle car owners. I have told him over and over that if they would learn how to judge muscle cars then they would get more there. As long as they continue to judge cars with the undercarriage that is all black the same as one that is detailed correctly and continue to knock points off for cars that have the correct overspray on them then they will continue to see their numbers dwindle.
"If you keep doing what have been doing then you will continue to get what you have been getting!"

Re: "Factory Built"
 

[ QUOTE ]
...Interesting to note that the only Camaros AACA recognizes in their Factory High Performance class are COPO and "Yenko" Camaros ...

[/ QUOTE ]

OopS! Made a "typo" on their "typo" - their judge's manual recognizes "Yenco" camaros. NOT Yenkos. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/haha.gif
-Sam

Re: "Factory Built"
 

[ QUOTE ]
My father is an AACA member and he keeps saying to me that they need younger members. That they need the muscle car owners. I have told him over and over that if they would learn how to judge muscle cars then they would get more there. As long as they continue to judge cars with the undercarriage that is all black the same as one that is detailed correctly and continue to knock points off for cars that have the correct overspray on them then they will continue to see their numbers dwindle.
"If you keep doing what have been doing then you will continue to get what you have been getting!"

[/ QUOTE ]

Amen!!!!

The Hornets Nest chapter of the AACA hosts one of the largest swap meets on the East coast in the form of the 'Auotfair' in Charlotte, NC.

However, they have to recognize 1960-70's muscle cars and learn how to judge them properly. Until then, their membership will contiune to erode. Most folks that attend are not interested in pre-world war II cars.

Re: "Factory Built"
 

I entered my 68 Beaumont SD396 in a show sponsered by the Greenwood SC Chapter of AACA. They couldn't figure out what class to put me in so they put me in the special interest class. Some of the other vehicles in the class with me were a Corvair, a Viper and a 2002 Ford Boss truck. They told me that I couldn't be in the muscle car class because my car had been modified, the 396 has been replaced with a 427. The car that won the muscle car class was a modified 68 Nova. Actually, I didn't have a problem not being in the muscle car class, but special interest??? I have yet to figure that one out.
James