Re: 1967 Baldwin Motion Camaro.
 

Mowtown,
I looked this car over too:

SS-427's on the hood too late for a this car (68-up)

Motion Plaques on fenders, spoiler, and valve covers- again too Late for a this car (69-up)

Hood was reproduction. and was cut out in the center. Chop Gun work on what was left was really smooth also.

Heads were polished.

Valve covers were the finned type with the rectangular centers for the plaques- again too late for a this car. (69 and up)


From the corrall:

The questions that were asked were related to the date of the additional work on the car listed above. There was ongoing debate reguarding if the parts that were late for the car were added later-by the owner. If the car was converted by Motion Perhaps just at a later date, or added by the owner at a later date. At any rate, the non period correct parts were the killers on the sale of this car as most people walked away shaking their heads. Myself included. The letter on the dash did not seem to factor into the opinions of the folks that passed on this car.

Nice car to drive however. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ins/3gears.gif

Phil

Re: 1967 Baldwin Motion Camaro.
 

[ QUOTE ]
These guys are smoking better weed then I have ever seen, maybe the only reason I can see through this BS is because I Inhale! Somebody get me a bottle of Crown Royal quick, I need some clarity in my life! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/wink.gif
MomanMadtown https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/confused.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
Geeze, No wonder you are so confused https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/smirk.gif
Just bustin on you..LOL
Sam https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

Re: 1967 Baldwin Motion Camaro.
 

Matt,

-----I did say it was far-fetched didnt I? Want to make sure that no one here thinks I believed the tripe I heard. Just reporting what I was told. Dont shoot the messenger,please!............Bill S

Re: 1967 Baldwin Motion Camaro.
 

You can read all about this car here. I've shown a couple of relevant posts from the thread below. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/show...art=1&vc=1

[ QUOTE ]
Gentlemen, something is rotten in Denmark. The 1967 Motion Camaro I bought at Auburn has problems, possibly even legal ones. It does have a letter from Joel Rosen stating that it is a real Motion car, but last year it had a letter from Joel Rosen stating it was NOT a Motion car. We have talked to the origional first buyer, and he bought it new in Oklahoma City at Hudiburg Chevrolet in the third week of June 1967. The car was made the second week of May 1967.Yes , we now have a problem!!!!!How can Joel say this car came from Baldwin and is a Motion car, when last year he wrote it was not.And in five weeks from build date to selling date off new car lot in Oklahoma?????Gentlemen, maybe we put to much importance in a letter from Joel Rosen,which received his fee from both previous owners. This is a $100,000 deal that has gone south, I have the car now , waiting for the end result, with my check having had payment stopped!!!!


[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
It was the NCIB report that found the origional dealership, to be Hudipold Chevrolet in Oklahoma City and we now know the list of all the former owners of the car, and have talked to all but one who was killed .In saying the car was unverifiable last year, Joel stated the car had come from Kline Chevrolet in Va.


[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Well closure is near. The folks at Kruse/eBay auctions which held the large auction in Auburn are a class act. They are taking the car back at their expence and going to sell it as a clone and give the proceeds that are left after they take their due commissions out and give the remaining amount to the seller. The reason and how the new letter from Joel came into being, I will not discuss. If any of you guys frequent the classic car auctions, then you know that the Kruse,the Leake, and the Branson auction that Jim and Kathy Cox has are the top of the line. They are at the top for integrity along with the fine people at Russo-Steele and the Barrett-Jackson auctions. In a crazy world where some people try to make a fast buck, it is nice to deal with people who still do business the old fashioned way, with pride and passion for their work.


[/ QUOTE ]

Re: 1967 Baldwin Motion Camaro.
 

FYI: The car SOLD at Barrett-Jackson in the car corral for $65k. Went to a buyer who accepted the car that was represented as a clone, and didn't care. Said he knew real ones were 2-3x the money and just wanted a car to drive.

For what I saw people paying for cars that were no more real, but just represented as such, does $65k really seem that bad? Maybe you could build it for that, but maybe not. It was originally a black L78 car, so that has got to be worth something.

Again, maybe we should ease up on guys buying what they like.As long as they don't ask us to help pay, who cares? ENTHUSIASM is what makes the hobby, NEGATIVITY is what kills it.

Sorry for the honesty, could be the drinks I had tonight. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif

Regards to all,
Colin

Re: 1967 Baldwin Motion Camaro.
 

Maybe you didnt drink enough. I started this thread, if you go back and read it from beginning to end you will find that the discussion was not about the current owner of the car, nothing negative was really brought up about the owner. I actually feel for the guy. The discussion was about the car and it's history, which is what this board is for. I had some well founded questions about it, if the answers are anywhere they would be here. The negativity came about when the story of a past owner who is allegedly lying in an effort to get even or get the car back, whichever, but lies will help none of these cars or the hobby. The lies are blatantly negative and should be treated as such. The negativity here came from a past owner, not the current or future owners. And you are right, let someone buy the car, no one is saying otherwise, a few even commented on what a nice car it was and how much fun it would be.....not negative, so as it states here already, instead of lies, deciet, or conspiracys, for Gods sake somebody buy it so maybe they can come here and tell the rest of the hobby what it really is.......if they choose to. As for asking us to pay? Well, I disagree, as anytime a situation that involves lies, deciet, fraud, or any shadowy transaction takes place in this hobby it costs all the rest of us in a bad reputation for the hobby and people involved, it causes people who may have joined the hobby to have second thoughts, in a way it can even decrease the value of legitamite collector cars. The last thing any hobby needs is a nervous buying audience. It is not a situation of this car being advertised in a local hometown paper, this was the biggest collector car auction on the planet with world wide coverage. Anytime someone shells out the kind of money it takes to collect these cars, like Motion cars, they have a right and responsibility to do research and investigate anything that is on the market, and that is done through many ways, including web sites like this one. If someone owns a car that could possibly be one of a few on the planet, dont expect to bring it to a function like Barrett Jackson without it being discussed. If you cant stand the scutiny, dont get under the magnifying glass! This car has apparently had past issues, anyone with common sense would know it would cause a certain amount of controversy at a world wide event. I still cant grab on to the big picture here anyway, a former owner wants the car back, so he lies about it to damage it's reputation in order to buy it.....yet the whole time it is FOR SALE and could be bought at any time without all the BS! Which in my opinion by the way, doesnt make any sense and I think the whole story is BS! The point is however, considering what the car is represented to be, and the current market value for a real car like that, anyone with an interest has a right to question everything. That particular car was one of the few at BJ that I would have had an interest in buying if it turned out to be real, so with 70K at stake I am supposed to buy it without asking questions? Right...... https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif
Motown https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bs.gif

Re: 1967 Baldwin Motion Camaro.
 

Motown,

Correct. As I stated. I was there - and looked this car over good. This car did not have the words "Clone" "replica" or "recreation" listed on any of the discriptions. Just the letter from Joel on the dash, and "Motion Camaro" on the discriptions. That would lead me to believe that the car was not described "completely". (now being PC here) Buyer Beware...

It was clear that many potential buyers at Barrett were smart, and in no small part owe that to the existance of this site, and the good people that post here. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/flag.gif

Phil

Re: 1967 Baldwin Motion Camaro.
 

Does this mean that any signed and notarized afidavit that may accompany any vehicle be deemed unimportant because of the belief that there could be a degree of untruth?

Tony

Re: 1967 Baldwin Motion Camaro.
 

If the buyer knew the car was questionable and accepted it that way, then it's probably not too bad of a buy. If it's a real L78 car then it has some solid value to it. But it comes down to people buying what they want. I think it was established last year that this car is not a BM car.

Re: 1967 Baldwin Motion Camaro.
 

Not at all Tony. An informed purchase factors all information in. I was there Were you?? If so I did not meet you. But I met and spoke to quite a few bidders like myself. In reguard to this car I did not draw an immediate conclusion. A fool is easily seperated from his wallet and cash. Lots of people looked at the car. I passed on the car based upon the information presented - so did lots of other people. It is now my understanding that the buyer understood it was a clone. The letter on the Dash of the car did not indicate it was a clone. Enough said. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/naughty.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/naughty.gif

Re: 1967 Baldwin Motion Camaro.
 

Would you have bid on this car if there was no afvitavid? If you have a letter for and one against then you have no letter. I am old enough to say that my experience owning and driving these HP cars as "NEW" in their time period is an experience only a few can atest to. I have not seen the word "COPO" in the Dictionary yet.

Tony

Tony

Re: 1967 Baldwin Motion Camaro.
 

Phil, did you buy anything? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

Re: 1967 Baldwin Motion Camaro.
 

Billigen,

Thanks for asking!

I bid on three cars. Got out of all three, after quick figuring the 8%, taxes, and transport. Risky business when you are approaching 6 figures and the ringman is in your face!

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

Phil

Re: 1967 Baldwin Motion Camaro.
 

Mr. Motion,

Let me assist you in understanding this matter:

1. The car was not subject to auction. It was in the preexisting car corall. Offers were being accepted. I first looked at the car on Tuesday. And no I would not have bid on this car because I could have purchaced it outright then.

It did attract quite a following all weekend. There was lots of conversation about the car.

2. The letter that appeared to attest that the car was a true motion car on the dash was a photocopy. There ware no indications that the letter was notorized ("afvitavid"??) at all. The only authentication was Joel's signature.


I am gladdened to now know that you are old enough to know quit a bit about these cars. I recently completed the work on Hassett's 1968 Phase 3 L-88 427. It is a fast car. I have driven it. It also has the real paperwork from Joel and I know exactly what that looks like, and so does Joel.

In fact Joel told me at SCR #6 (Pointing at Marks car after he started it) "This is what I want in my Garage".

I will pass on the dictonary comment... Are we done yet??
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/flag.gif

Re: 1967 Baldwin Motion Camaro.
 

I bet that would be pretty nerve racking. Nice job on Marks car! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...iggthumpup.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ins/3gears.gif

Re: 1967 Baldwin Motion Camaro.
 

Here is a picture of the car. The one at Barrett

Re: 1967 Baldwin Motion Camaro.
 

The engine.

Re: 1967 Baldwin Motion Camaro.
 

Those are the new style American Torque-Thrust D's and the fan shroud looks like the poor-fitting BB repop that was selling several years ago. (The new repop BB shrouds are much better, BTW.) Neat looking car with the mags, redlines and mid-year Vette sidepipes. Too bad it has issues regarding its pedigree.

Re: 1967 Baldwin Motion Camaro.
 

Did you get a photo of the cowl tag???

Re: 1967 Baldwin Motion Camaro.
 

No. Sorry I did not.

Re: 1967 Baldwin Motion Camaro.
 

Pretty car! It "talks the talk" but it is ashame it does not walk the walk" https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/frown.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ins/3gears.gif

Re: 1967 Baldwin Motion Camaro.
 

That car rocks! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/headbang.gif I would love to beat the snot of it! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

Re: 1967 Baldwin Motion Camaro.
 

Thankyou for the clairification. Did you get a feeling like you were back in 1968 when you drove the 68 L88 Camaro? That's when all your good work pays off. Stay in Touch.
Tony

Re: 1967 Baldwin Motion Camaro.
 

the car sold but not cause guy knew it was a clone.

Re: 1967 Baldwin Motion Camaro.
 

they car was not represented as a clone the letter was a copy but if you got in touch with the guy selling car he brought the actual letter out signed.

Re: 1967 Baldwin Motion Camaro.
 

So will there be another disgruntled owner of this car soon or was he happy with it as it was?

Re: 1967 Baldwin Motion Camaro.
 

I drove a 68 L-88 Camaro back then, What a rush!!!!!! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/burnout.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ins/3gears.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...iggthumpup.gif

Re: 1967 Baldwin Motion Camaro.
 

And you'll be Driving it again soon... https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/cool.gif

Re: 1967 Baldwin Motion Camaro.
 

Only on and off the trailer https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/haha.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/haha.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ins/3gears.gif

Re: 1967 Baldwin Motion Camaro.
 

i think happy from talking to the guy.

Re: 1967 Baldwin Motion Camaro.
 

the guy that bought the car is from akron ohio. right down the road from me. he has a nice collection.

Re: 1967 Baldwin Motion Camaro.
 

Tony,

In a word - the ride is violent. It hooks up like a race car. Super Bite suspention works well. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...iggthumpup.gif

If you are going to Chevy Vettefest or SCR #6 let me know. I am buying at the bar, (at least the first round) https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

Phil

Re: 1967 Baldwin Motion Camaro.
 

Phil, I'll see about coming this year. I was born in Toronto, but haven't had a Passport in over 30 years and I 've got to get that done so there is no turning back when I cross the border. I can get across to the Adesa Auction House in Buffalo because I am registered there with photo id but one day they may say no. The adrenalin rush is "something else" when you drop the hammer on one of these sleepers EH!
Tony
Tony https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

Re: 1967 Baldwin Motion Camaro.
 

EH!!! Good - You will have fun. when your travel plans come together let me know. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

Phil