Re: 1970 L78 nova
 

No, I wish! It was for sale awhile back, and I downloaded the pics - if I would have bought one back then, that's what it would have looked like.

My '69 SS L78 Nova is Rallye Green, 4sp-M20, BT-3.55 posi, tinted glass, drip rail - door frame - body side mouldings, deluxe interior, buckets, non-guage console, tinted glass, & steel wheels with dogcaps. Quite the opposite compared to my Yenko sitting in the garage!

Re: 1970 L78 nova
 

Love Rallye on a Nova...hell on a Camaro too...is the one in your attachment the one that was for sale in Illinois ? I think that one is at Legendary now...

Re: 1970 L78 nova
 

I don't remember where it was for sale, I think it was in OH. That car is from Ammon R. Smith Motor Co here in York, PA. Nice car with full paperwork.

Re: 1970 L78 nova
 

Schonye,
For the most part the L78 will beat the small block.....however....that is not always the case with the right, or some would say wrong person behind the wheel of the small block. If the small block has a 4.56, 4.88, or 5.13 gear and the owner/driver does not care about spending money on a regular basis the small block can be sent into the RPM stratosphere(providing it has solids), and get the big block. With the right hook up at launch the small block will jump far enough ahead that the rest of the quarter is all about catch up for the L78. Either the mouse will stand the pressure at the end ot the quarter or it wont. I have sent several balanced/blueprinted DZ motors through the traps at 9100, a sound that will stay with you for life. But, no small block should ever be discounted just because the neighbor has a noseheavy car. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif
Motown https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

P.S. Garage? Marlin, I thought your Deuce was sitting in a field?

Re: 1970 L78 nova
 

This thread is like the Energizer Bunny, it just keeps going and going.

Tom

Re: 1970 L78 nova
 

Your point?

Re: 1970 L78 nova
 

Let me guess Mo, 9100 Rs with a mechanical fuel pump right.

If the sound don't stay with you the shrapnel will https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...emlins/eek.gif

Re: 1970 L78 nova
 

pxtx,
It would be interesting to see if a stock pump would make it that far...doubtful, but I guess anything might be possible. No, these were both tricked out with dual electrics and a lot of other equipment, to beat the big block that is stock it takes some mods to the mouse motor. If both are stone stock the L78 has it.
Motown https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

Re: 1970 L78 nova
 

Matt, i have the answer, 427!

Re: 1970 L78 nova
 

Kevin,
You were born with 427 on the brain. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gifYou going to BJ? If so I will see ya there. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/cool.gif
Motown https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

Re: 1970 L78 nova
 

I was only kidding with the fuel pump. Once a car starts running into the 13's it seems they will always benefit from a better fuel delivery system.

Yes I know people get into the 11s with an old mechnical pump, but by simply adding an electric pump they will still go faster. I dropped .5 by running an electric pump.

As for the BBC vs. SBC debate- my vote is for the BBC.

I've got my L79 tuned pretty well, but 13.2 is the best she goes. A big block may not be able to pull my 1.7 60's foot times, but they usually walk me on the top end.

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...iggthumpup.gif
Paul

Re: 1970 L78 nova
 

Gentlemen, all I said was that my deuce was faster than my L78. Not a lie, a fact. The L78 had 3.55 gears, and M20. If that worth 21/2-3 carlenghts I stand corrected. Please don't tell the L78 chevelles, 440 GTXs, and Boss302s that were also not quite as fast, that they should have won. We don't want to hurt their feelings.
Sam I agree when you're running in class on the strip, the LT/1 can't compete "headsup".
Mo, you're dead on with the holeshot, and hanging on. Big cubes start catching you in 3rd.
Kim, not 6 people. Five and 3 cases of old Milwaukee, and a bottle of Jack.
The argument about BB vrs Sb will never end. It was the same back in the day, only worse.
I've personally always thought the 68-69 L78s with the 163 high rise intake ran better than the 70 low rise. Just seemed that they flowed better.
Don, great find on the Nova. They really rock with the turbo. Schonye

Re: 1970 L78 nova
 

Schonye,
The 163 intake vs the lower model in 70 is a no brainer. I dropped an LS6 in a 69 Camaro, made a few passes with it and was unhappy with what seemed like a momentary hesitation standing on the throttle. I swapped out the intake to a 163 using the same carb, made some passes and gained a minimum of 3 tenths of a second on each run, everything exactly the same except the intake. The additional height of the 163 is just enough to allow the fuel molecules to mix with the air causing a less liquid mixture for faster and more efficent combustion. I would think GM only dropped the intake in an effort to engineer the cold air induction system to work correctly with hood clearance. Whatever the reason, the proof is in the results, I definetly gained a quicker ET with no other changes except the intake.
Motown https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/scholar.gif

Re: 1970 L78 nova
 

9,000 rpm's is a lot of revs. I would have to say the motor had the heads cut for big valve springs, a roller cam, and an MSD box. Most 02's shift around 7,500rpm's and go through the traps about 7,000. This is basically in stock eliminator trim. 9,000 rpm sounds like a comp. eliminator motor. JMO Sam https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ins/3gears.gif

Re: 1970 L78 nova
 

Sam,
You were right on all three accounts.
Motown https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

Re: 1970 L78 nova
 

There was a fellow that I used to watch in last 60s down at Acto take a small bock 327 and beat big blocks all day long His name was Bill Jenkins I would be down at the pits and watch Bill at work ( boy did I learn a lot) I don’t know why no body ever gave Bill his dues we hear a lot about Fred Gibbs Don Yenko and Dick Harrell but as long as I have been on this site no body ever mention Bill Jenkins I feel that he has been a major facture in the development on how much you could get out of a mouse motor I think he still lives about 40 min form me in Malvern Pa I know we were talking about stock but I believe Bill could still make a stock 327 and make it fly

Re: 1970 L78 nova
 

Amen, and to Mr. Howie, Don't forget Dean Davis, and the Little Stinker chevy ll. Schonye

Re: 1970 L78 nova
 

Nobody is a bigger Grumpy fan than me! I asked him to look at my 270hp carbs on my 1961 vette and he did. I even bought some vintage carb parts off him. He is a nice guy. Jenkins set the Pro Stock world on fire in 1972 with his small block Vega. He figured he could make enough power with his 331 in small block and much lighter weight to win and.....he did. Probably his name is not associated as much with this site because he didn't produce any cars. He didn't take any cars and prepare them with his name attached and so on. Today, I still believe if Chrysler wanted to put the SS/AA record in the 8.30's or 8.40's he could do it even before the hemi guys of today. He just would need to use Chryslers money. NOT his. He also had the Pro Stock truck class down pretty good till NHRA squashed it. You are right Schoneye and Kim those other guys really couldn't compete with Jenkins in those days. remember He did Dave Stricklers 1968 Z and also Don Yenko's Ed Hedrick SS camaro, and 2/3 of all the chevy stock and super stock cars in those days. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

Re: 1970 L78 nova
 

Sam I am too a big Gumpy fan watch him once put in a universal joint in 4 s min flat using and old king pin and hammer and a 1&1/4 socket I master that trick it easy and faster that trying to use a press When it came to engines he was nothing more then a
Genius I was allways in the pits just to watch him do his magic https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/worship.gif yes he was a nice guy I really miss the good old days https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

Re: 1970 L78 nova
 

We used to talk to him down Cecil County in the old days. That is where he used to help Brooklyn Heavy out with the 68 camaro Heavy bought from him. You had to make things in those days you couldn't just go buy all the cookie cutter stuff like today. They really were the days! Sam

Re: 1970 L78 nova
 

..and it's still going and going and.......

Re: 1970 L78 nova
 

Grumpy may not have sold cars, but he did offer street and race engine packages. I'm not sure how similar this would have been to a Motion Modified car. Anyone near Willow Grove PA hear of Billy Banks? He was a friend of my pop's who had a Jenkins prepared 327 in a 57 Chevy. This was in the mid-late 60's and it was all roller up. I think Billy later became involved with GTOs- something about a "Bobbin' Bear" race car seems to stick in my memory.

Paul T

Re: 1970 L78 nova
 

BOPPING BEAR https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/scholar.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/burnout.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ins/3gears.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

Re: 1970 L78 nova
 

Don, Send me a PM or give a call when you can. Thanks, sam

Re: 1970 L78 nova
 

I thought I posted this last night, but it appears to have not made it on here. I appologize to those who feel the thread is too long from off topic posts.

The 57 with the Jenkins prepared 327 was running around NE Philadelphia in 1966 and was owned by Ted Swaggert. My pop then traded Ted his old 55 for the 57 in 1967. The Jenkins motor was painted flat black when all others in the area seemed to stay orange.

Grumpy said that he felt shiny oil leaks were easily spotted on the flat black color.

Billy Banks also had a 57 at this time which was fully rollered with dual quads. When I asked my pop who built it, he could not remember, but I did wake him out of bed last night to ask.

Jungle Jim Lieberman's old shop is about 3 miles from my house. I am mentioning all of these names because they were some of the better known Hot Rodders of thie time. Maybe Don or Sam or others may know of them.

The point to all of this is that a car with a Jenkins Prepared package or one done by Jungle Jim certainly could be comparable to a Motion built/tuned car (not a Baldwin/Motion though) regardless of where the car was purchased new.

Any other famous racers offer street performance packages?

Paul T

Re: 1970 L78 nova
 

When was Jungle Jim in Glenside? West Chester I thought. sam

Re: 1970 L78 nova
 

I am also a Jenkins fan.
Bill Jenkins did build at least one street car. I ‘ve been trying to find out more info on it because I have the hood to it. The car was a 70 Camaro big block car that was set up to look like Grump’s 70 Pro Stock racecar. The racecar was split bumper front and the show car was a straight bumper. The hood is an all steel 1970 cowl induction prototype built by Chevy engineering in 1969 for the canselled 1970 LT2/ZL2 option. The car was used by Grumpy to meet contracted promotional commitments. He needed a second car because the racecar couldn’t be not make all the dates that were set for it.
Here is a pic of Grumpy with the 70 show car and his 68 and 69 car. The 70 show car was also used on at least one magazine cover. This show car was mostly a stock street car just made to look like a Pro Stocker. Engine may have been an old alum head 427 but Grumpy couldn’t remember when I asked him about it.

Re: 1970 L78 nova
 

Jenkins couldn't remember where that car went? I am surprised. I really thought that that car went to Bruce Larson or Dave Strickler. I never have known it as a street car. Just a stock unit that was then converted to a Pro Stocker. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif

Re: 1970 L78 nova
 

When I went to Jenkins shop to pick up the hood I was trying to talk to him about it but he was very busy with phone calls. They let me wonder around the shop while I waited so I didn't mind. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...iggthumpup.gif
He gave me documentation about the hood on Jenkins Competition letterhead paper but didn't tell me much about the car. I was wondering if it was a prototype car from Chevy with the hood on it but he said the hood came in a truck with some other parts Chevy sent him. He didn't think the car was ever raced but for some reason he took the hood off before the car left his shop. I never did get the whole story on the car. I was trying to find out if it was on loan from Chevy and went back to Chevy or if it was sold or what happened to it.

Re: 1970 L78 nova
 

Jungle Jim later moved to West Chester which is where he met his fate, but was originally from Willow Grove. My uncle used to pit for him on occasion in the 60's.

Abington, Willow Grove, Glenside, Roslyn, Hatboro are a string of towns which span only a few miles accross. Jim's first shop was on Old York Road in Abington. So it was about 3 miles from any of these places. I'll snap a picture next time I go by.

Re: 1970 L78 nova
 

Don't want to get off the track of all this "car history' but, did we ever get any info on the axle code for this L78 car? I would like to see a post with some docs or info on the axle. Rare options are of interest to us all.

Still waiting......

Re: 1970 L78 nova
 

GTO_Don is at Barrett Jackson until Sunday night. That is why he has nit been able to respond.

Mike

Re: 1970 L78 nova
 

So The building is still there. I guess Ken Montgomery's shop is close also.(Jenkintown) Jungle went to the west coast also I think. Ken junior has a video for me with the camera in his dad's Hemi car. Apparently they took videos of the racing season from inside the car. Saw some videos at York last year. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ins/3gears.gif

Re: 1970 L78 nova
 

555
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

Re: 1970 L78 nova
 

The Tripple Nickel! sam https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ins/3gears.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/burnout.gif

Re: 1970 L78 nova
 

I knew you would pick that up!
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

Re: 1970 L78 nova
 

Ken's Shop is about 3/4 mile from my house. I'll get some pics of that too.

Re: 1970 L78 nova
 

I cant vouch for Jenkins ever building a street car,but as for his 70 prostocker,the actual prostock car was really a full bumper car and was raced that way in the first few events they ran it in.It later was fitted with an A&A specialties fiberglass front clip which was a split bumper piece.Other points of interest with that car was that it has pinstriping accenting the body lines when it had the stock nose on it,but most of the pinstriping was gone when the car was fitted with the glass nose,and some of the stickers were rearranged.The car also came from the factory with the full size rear spoiler,but I believe this was deleted when the glass nose was done.The 1970 issue of Hot Rod has the real car in it's earliest form on the cover and in a full spread.They claim it was an original SS396,but Jenkins claimed to have installed a "B" body 12 bolt with service package posi unit and 5.13 gears.I dont know why such a swap would have ben done if the car had a 12 bolt to begin with as all 70 SS cars had.
I buried my July 1970 issue of Hot Rod with the car in it,but I also seem to remember the first hood being a pro stock scoop on top of a cowl induction hood,but that might have been the earlier car I am drawing in my head.

Here is another piece of Jenkis trivia I was never able to verify.I know that Richie Zul owned Grump's 70 car in the mid 70's,and it was supposedly stolen,but I have also heard rumors that Zul had a 69 Camaro prostocker before the 70 car and it was also a previously Jenkins prepared car although maybe not a Grumpy's toy.It was also supposedly stolen and dumped under the New Jersey Turnpike overpass near Newark New Jersey.Is it possible that the stories are about the same car,or did Zul own 2 such cars that were stolen?The rest of that rumor went on to include that the Zul built engine was an iron block 427 that was one of the first Prostockers into the 9.40's,and that it either ended up in a very fast street race camaro of that time in Newark or under an equally fast big body 409 Impala of that era and area.Who knows anything about these stories?

Re: 1970 L78 nova
 

Zul's 1969 camaro was his. It got stolen in early 70's. We talked to him at the SS nationals in York. That car was his. He told us that his father knew who stole the car. Don't know what happened then. he then borrowed or leased Jenkins car. I believe it was the 1970 or 71 car. (not sure about dates) Jenkins was doing the Vega then I believe. Also Zul was in the low nines with stamped steel GM rockers. I SAW them. At one point, he was the fastest big block. Sam

Re: 1970 L78 nova
 

Back then,Zul was one of the first guys to run Ford Cleveland rockers on the big Chevy because it bumped the ratio from 1.70 to 1.73:1.He was also a big believer in compression,and he used to it run very late cam timing and was one of the only guys running 5.86:1 gears behind a bigblock at the time.He came to my friends shop to look over his prostock car that as also racing at the time,and he let in on a few of the ways he could have identified his engine.One way was that he milled the block so much that the top water pump bolt hole was almost breaking through the deck,and the other was that the heads were so angle milled that the headers were smashed against the starter motor.He claims he later started refacing the exhaust flanges to make the headers not hit,but you can imagine how milled down all that stuff must have been.The popular opinion at the time was that the engine ended up in a very fast big money race camaro from Newark{who I wont name},but looking back at it,many agree that during the time frame that Zul's car disappeared,there was a certain big tire 409 impala that got real fast out of no where at the street races,and that seems the be the new opinion on where it might have went.Either way,everybody seemed to agree that the engine wouldnt even show up in an actual race car.
SO the only part of the story that was incorrect was that the 69 car was never in the hands of a Jenkin's team racer.Either way,Zul should have put better locks on his doors.Having the second car stolen must have really stunk.
Thanks again for the imput.