Re: Baldwin Car For Sale
 

Motown, well said. My comments weren't against callers that called AFTER Dustin posted the second time that the car was still for sale. If everyone re-reads my post, I was referencing callers that were calling PRIOR to his second post saying he's still taking offers. You can almost understand Dustin's plight if someone is calling previously and telling him that the car is worth $30-50,000; even hough it is an undocumented car and needing about $50,000 to 60,000 restoration on it.

So I am clarifying and I am repeating again, I don't have any problem with the guys that called after Dustin re-posted it's still for sale and taking offers. It's the guys calling him beforehand that caused all the trouble.

I don't see anyone commenting about the "COPO for $500 thread". I wish my deal was that good. I've assumed the risk on this car as it is still undocumented. Dustin was not willing to send Joel $1,500.

Re: Not a Baldwin Car, Not for Sale
 

Nah...I don't think it's "bash Kevin week". I think it's more like your Friday evening post actually invited the innocent folks [that had dropped a quarter] to defend themselves. They [Charley, Jude, et al.] were likely thinking: "hmmm...I DID call about the car, but I DID NOT try to interfere with Kevin's deal." Accordingy, nobody likes to be called names, so they professed their innocence out in the sunshine by posting on the forum. If the roles were reversed, I expect you'd announce your no-fault version too.

You moved quickly Kevin, and you got the car...but don't expect a round of applause from the 2nd place losers. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/scholar.gif[/img]

SS

Re: Not a Baldwin Car, Not for Sale
 

Yeah, Steve maybe you're right. If the guys that called after Dustins post saying "still taking offers' feel the need to stick up for themselves, that's fair. But they should have payed more attention that I am only upset with the earlier bunch that called Dustin after I posted I bought the car. If having a agreement both verbally and a written purchase agreement doesn't mean someone has bought a car, what the heck does? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Well I'm sure there are readers of this thread sitting back and eating popcorn just enjoying the show. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif[/img] I guess I got to keep a sense of humour because this whole thing is ridiculous.

Re: Not a Baldwin Car, Not for Sale
 

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
Just waitin for the pics. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/headbang.gif[/img]

Re: Baldwin Car For Sale
 

This all goes with the territory. When you have a limited amount of collectable cars with a lot of collectors, ruthlessness will rear it's head. No different then the world of rare art, Gems, Coins, etc. If it was easy everyone would be doing it. We must keep in sight that no material item or collectable is worth enough to sacrifice honor over, a thousand rightous transactions will never be remembered over the one unethical transaction. Never allow any deal to be controlled by emotion, clear thought will prevail over emotion every time. The prisons are full of people who acted on emotion with a crime of passion that most would not have commited utilizing clear thought. To a lesser degree this hobby has the elements necessary to go either way, calm or chaos. One rare car that is found and made known to the collector world could be compared to a Monday morning sale table surrounded by women at your local discount store. Cooler heads must prevail.
Motown [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/scholar.gif[/img]

Re: Not a Baldwin Car, Not for Sale
 

Supercars, I can understand you being upset after hearing your explanation, but I can also understand someone calling after YOU posted that the car was sold. I have no interest in this car and did not call. However, if it was a '67 Z-28 I would have called just to make sure the deal went through and perhaps to put my name on a waiting list should it go sour. Now, if Justin told me that you and he had a deal, I would never have told him I would offer more or that he sold too cheaply - that's dirty pool. If it were JUSTIN that posted that the car was sold, I would not have called after the fact. Just trying to help you see how others may have seen the situation. IMHO, if you knew who tried to undermine your deal, you should have went to them directly rather than name calling the masses here. At the end of the day, you've got the car...enjoy it!

Re: Not a Baldwin Car, Not for Sale
 

ok.. We've all heard both sides.. Can I put an end to this??
[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/Charley.gif[/img]
NOW can we see some pics of the damn thing?? Vintage ones would be best [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif[/img]

Re: Not a Baldwin Car, Not for Sale
 

Ed, I'm startin' to think you have an obsession with pics [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I'd be a little nervous if I was one of your old girlfriends [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Not a Baldwin Car, Not for Sale
 

Zedder, I wasn't name calling the masses. I couldn't contact individuals direct as Dustin wouldn't say who the callers were. I made a general announcement because I couldn't identify anyone, and knew the guilty parties would know what they did. It appears now the callers are speaking out to defend themselves, perhaps some feel guilty for having interferred with my deal.

Why would any member of this board question the fact that I bought the car. I would've thought they know me as a serious collector that doesn't make statements lightly. Oh well, I've said enough for now unless I have to come back and defend my position some more, but prefer to just let it go. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: Not a Baldwin Car, Not for Sale
 

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif[/img] Not THOSE kind of pics [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif[/img] Just like to see the supercars I haven't seen before. ESPECIALLY the Motion stuff. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/headbang.gif[/img] I figure this is about as close as I'll ever get to having one of my own. I just don't make Supercar kind of money. So I gotta get my enjoyment and be part of the hobby in the ways I can afford. Collecting pictures and model cars and stuff like that.

Re: Not a Baldwin Car, Not for Sale
 

Supercars, My statement was made as a generalty, it wasn't directed towards you personally. I don't know you personally, but I know you as a serious collector, but that doesn't mean a deal you are involved in couldn't go sour. The point I was trying to make was that some may have simply called to confirm with the SELLER that the car was sold. I would say it is unusual for the BUYER to announce that the car was sold, wouldn't you? Regardless, I am not trying to start an arguement with you. I was simply trying to help you see how others might have innocently attempted to make sure the deal was done. Like I said before, I didn't call on this car, but I wouldn't feel guilty if I did and acted as I described earlier. And I would have taken offense to being called and idiot and a yo-yo like other incocent callers did. I think you have a right to be upset with those who specifically called to screw up your deal, but your statements were unintentionally directed at all callers.

Re: Not a Baldwin Car, Not for Sale
 

[ QUOTE ]

Jude, you really aren't being fair here. Anyway I thank you for the Chevelle magazine you sent, that was very nice of you. I emailed a thanks, but it didn't go through, you must have changed your email address.

Shor, what is your issue? All you've done is back out on a car deal with me, with some excuse that my orange Yenko from Otis Chandler's collection wasn't in(Otis owned 2 orange ones) Otis Chandlers book. I never told you it was, but I graciously sent your $40,000 deposit back, no questions asked. What more could I do for you???


[/ QUOTE ]

Supercars, I see by your last post that you are attempting to get personal. Do you think I am upset over that deal? Do you think my response to you was because I was secretly harboring ill will with you? The fact of the matter is that my respone about posting your phots on YOUR own site was because I don't care to see them here. I don't care for your behavior either, with regards to this car. There are plenty of people here who will kiss your *** and tell you how great you are and what a wonderful collection you have, and to please share some pics with us. I am not one of them. I like people for who they are, and how they treat others.It is tough to guauge people in the computer world but you can read thier posts and get a pretty good handle. Why don't you take a step back now Kevin, and reread your posts..... YOU have taken the fun out of this whole car.

My posts and responses are about PUBLIC issues that are raised on the board. Once a car hits the BOARD or a response hits the BOARD it is public info.
I guess you feel threatned or backed into a corner as evidenced by your last post dealing with PRIVATE issues.
What is that crap about Judes magazine. Are you trying to imply to everyone that Jude just is mad at you because he didn't get a thank you card from you??
And what about that crap about me not buying your your orange Yenko? Would you REALLY like to discuss that?? Because now that you have made it public I could start a new thread if you like.....

Re: Not a Baldwin Car, Not for Sale
 

Shor, I was unclear as what your first posts were made for as there was no text, so asked what your issue was? When I saw your post that I should post pics on my own site, it came across like you are the moderator and wanted me to leave this site. I wasn't attacking you about not buying my Yenko (didn't understand why) and only brought it up saying that I graciously returned your deposit without question. As I had done nothing towards you, I couldn't understand your posts, and yes I felt you were having ill feelings towards me, with no reason for it. You made it personal first with your first comment to go posts pics on my own site. Sorry if I mis-interpreted your posts, or anyone elses posts that were genuinely innocent for that matter. Just don't feel it is correct for posts attacking me for being upset with guys that truly tried to undermine this deal.

The magazine I was thanking Jude for sending me was a sincere thank you. Felt it was good to at least say a few kind words in this ugly thread. But Shor is correct that the fun out of owning this car is gone. Basically, I had no clue as to who called or made attempts to buy it out from under me; so I did not say names nor make personal attacks on anyone. In frustration, I did make a general open statement telling guys to quit calling, as it could have been any of the thousands of non-registered readers of this site, that called Dustin's phone number to attempt to buy it out from under me. But it is the responders to this thread here that have made personal attacks to me first; thus making it personal, and I feel the need to defend myself.

Re: Not a Baldwin Car, Not for Sale
 

SuperCars
For the record,although I stated early in this thread I was interested in this Car,I never persude it after you replied that you had bought it.I have never met you,but I feel I know you to be a man of your word,and in my book I felt it was indeed a Done deal.I admire you for that and Thank You for your Candor. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif[/img]

MotownMadMan
I gotta ask....In your earlier reply using that Deuce as an Example,you stated <font color="green">"It appears all the interest generated may have awoke the Great Dragon of greed..."</font>
Was this Car you refer to the Fencl-Tufo DD,or are just a Coincedence on your choice of words?
Have you Found out anything on the DD?
I am being Sincere here.

Re: Not a Baldwin Car, Not for Sale
 

Rick,
Just a coincidence of words, the car I was referring to was the Fathom Green Dik Watson Deuce that Jeff in Tennessee bought without knowing Dave had already made a deal. Once Jeff found out there was a deal he tried to turn the deal back over to Dave, which was a honorable thing to do. I am not sure if Jeff made it to SCR6 or not. I would like to extend an open apology to you for some of my remarks towards you in another thread, I just felt that while you may have personal issues towards another individual this board is not intended to be a place used for personal attacks. My resulting behavior was like living in a glass house and throwing stones. While individuals to this board may believe they are accomplishing something by using this board for personal attacks we must keep in mind by doing so it is not fair to the rest of the members here or the many who read this board who are not members. As for the DD, at the present time I prefer not to discuss this in an open forum, several members here are aware of the situation through off board discussions.
Thanks,
Motown [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif[/img]

Re: Not a Baldwin Car, Not for Sale
 

Matt
Yes Jeff L. did make it to SCR6,and I did see him and the Deuce there.Both are very unique,and worth the trip alone to see.
I appreciate your Apology and also agree with your statement.Somethings are better left to Emails,and not on a Public Forum.
As for the DD,I understand...ixna on the eucda.. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif[/img]

Re: Not a Baldwin Car, Not for Sale
 

Interesting post, I do like my popcorn [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

I didn't know anything about this particular car, but the funny thing is, I have had similar situations with some of the people who are defending themselves here. Jude, why did you feel the need to tell 'Dustin' your opinion on the 'true' value of this car, what was your motive?

Matt, I don't see where the Belk situation is comparable here, there was no signed agreement to my knowledge. In fact, since several of us were on the sidelines on that one, we shouldn't be commenting at all - let those directly involved speak if they want to.

Re: Not a Baldwin Car, Not for Sale
 

OK, more importantly, Kevin when do you expect to hear from Joel if the car is a real Motion or not? Excited to see if your risk paid off.

Sorry to see issues get in the midst of buying the car. C'est la vie.

Re: Not a Baldwin Car, Not for Sale
 

Kevin,
I just noticed that you changed the name of this thread to "Not a Baldwin Car..." Did you mean to report that the Nova IS NOT a Baldwin, but IT IS a Motion car? Or, it is B-M car just not verified? Or...??? I'm sure you would have called Joel to verify before you finalized the purchase, so the thread name-change is confusing.

SS

Re: Not a Baldwin Car, Not for Sale
 

Marlin,
Being what you refer to as an "Old Geezer", I came from a time when signed contracts werent needed, all that was needed was a mans word or a handshake. A deal is a deal, on paper or not. That is a done deal so commenting is not a problem, when peoiple should have stayed on the sidelines was when the deal was in progress so the rest of the world would not have known of the deal to interfere, dont you agree Marlin?
Motown [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

Re: Not a Baldwin Car, Not for Sale
 

You are certainly entitled to your opinion on how others should buy/sell cars, but the only ones that really matter are those directly involved. I like the geezer method just as much as the next guy, but I've seen to many handshakes conveniently forgotten when someone else shows up with more green. So, in this 'modern' day, it's best to get in writing.

As for the Watson Deuce, there were a lot of callers, there was no deal until the cash changed hands. If the seller decides to increase his price, and there is nothing legally preventing him from doing so, then there is no recourse. You're a 'JD', so you already know about that stuff [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif[/img]

Re: Not a Baldwin Car, Not for Sale
 

Marlin,
Unfortunetly what you say is true, from a legal standpoint a contract is the best method, but a verbal agreement is still an enforcable one, even though more difficult. Yes, I do know about this stuff, but lets excercise caution in that regard, Ok? Even with contracts it becomes difficult when conducting transactions across state lines are more difficult to enforce due to jurisdictional issues.
Motown [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif[/img]

Re: Not a Baldwin Car, Not for Sale
 

LV Camaro-Steve, haven't documented it yet. The "Not a Baldwin Car, Not for sale" heading is sticking with my heading from the previous post (the now infamous yo-yo post) I made in Southern Calif. I was trying to keep the callers away by informing them that I was indeed buying it, "so it's not for sale" and not to be in a frenzy calling because it is not documented as a "Baldwin Car" which was yet to be done. It does look confusing as looking back up this thread I can see it depends on whether a person has clicked on a response to the original heading, or whether clicked on my changed heading as they transpire on down this thread.

But, I just got home yesterday, and haven't really left my computer, trying to represent myself over this car deal. I have not talked to Joel or communicated with him in months. I will not do so until I truly get the car in my possession. I've paid $4,500 and balance of $4,500 which I will wire when the parts of the car that are scattered over 3 different locations are gathered up, motor set in the engine compartment, and ready for shipment.

Re: Not a Baldwin Car, Not for Sale
 

I agree, you should exercise caution when discussing Contract Law, the UCC is not to be taken lightly.

Re: Not a Baldwin Car, Not for Sale
 

Gotcha!

I hear rumor that you're actually the "yo-yo". LOL! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif[/img]

BTW...I haven't heard from the new "forum cops" about this thread, as yet. Now that Marlin jumped in...we may be getting close to the admonishment zone. This may become the benchmark for future shock-awe-bash thread posts.

Seems like laundry day for the dirty hamper comes around every couple weeks, or so. Even as quickly as you moved on this Nova, you're a big, slow moving target. Jude, Shor, Charley, et al. just saw the need and opportunity to clarify their position on this topic, then reflect on past experiences as an example of their innocent role here.

In the spirit of peace/harmony on the forum...I'll send my trailer to pick up this "Not Baldwin" and thereby remove the discomfort you're feeling. You should have the check tomorrow [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif[/img].

SS

Re: Baldwin Car For Sale
 

Closing this one folks. Seems that even after the sign agreement was posted and the thread started to go up-hill instead of down this morning it is headed south again. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsdown.gif[/img] If anyone has issues with others use other ways (I.E. phone, E-mail ETC.) If Dustin would like to post a reply he or his Girlfriend will have to contact one of the ADMIN or Moderators to open the thread for them to do so and then it will be closed agian after that repley is posted.

Re: Baldwin Car For Sale
 

Reply from Dustin and company: I moved it after I closed the thread and saw he posted a reply that started a new thread.
------------------------------
Alright guys,
I understand that there has been some name calling and bitterness being put around on this website about Kevin and that he forced us to sell to him. It's crazy that I even have to do this because some people can not act like adults.
Listen, THE CAR HAS BEEN SOLD! The final agreement was made under confidentiality, between Dustin, his dad and Kevin.
WE DID NOT GET SCREWED OVER!
But thanks for looking out for us!
Jen and Dustin