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I think the hood was louvered too. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif[/img]

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No idea what was meant about unique the hood stripe. Car was in primer when I got it, so nothing there to go on. At this point, will do the stripes in the normal Yenko fashion. As per the wheels/tires?, will decide that later.

And Kim, yes the hood is louvered, chrome I might add. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif[/img]

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[ QUOTE ]
It appears that Yenko removed the SS emblems and attached the other emblems in the same manner as with our Camaro.

[/ QUOTE ] If I recall correctly, aren't a Nova's SS emblems riveted onto the tail panel trim with regular old horizontal side by side rivets? If this is the case, did Yenko utilize the two existing holes and drill only two more, placing the crest and 427 side by side, or is the SS emblem riveted in the staggered configuration of a 69 Camaro tail pan emblem's pins? When you say it's like our Camaro it makes me think the crest and 427 were staggered like it too, am I correct in this assumption? Also, any ideas as to what Yenko held the emblems on with, as I'm sure he didn't have the capability to rivet them as Chevrolet did, but pins with nuts on the back would hardly allow the tail pan trim to be remounted to the body without drilling extra holes for them too. I assume Yenko removed the entire tail pan, drilled out the rivets on the SS emblem, replaced them in some manner with his crest and 427, and then reinstalled the tail panel trim. Or maybe he used the old wood chisel method of removing the SS emblem, and drilled through the tail panel trim and tail panel in one clean shot, bolting the emblems in place with speed nuts. Can someone help me out here, I'd like a definitive answer as to how these SS Novas were converted into sYc cars, I suppose I'm not the only one either. Tom, if you can post a pic of the backside of the original tail panel trim and the holes in the tail pan itself that would be worth a thousand words. Thanks in advance for any light you can shed on this subject.

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ScK:

The SS emblems on the rear of a Nova had 4 attachment points, kind of like this: \ /. Our car then had a hole drilled on each side of the "\ /", all the way through, and used 1 of the original holes and 1 new hole for each new emblem. But, this left 2 visible holes from the previous SS emblem. In fact, we've heard that these extra holes were what led someone to further investigate a hidden Y-Nova. Anyway, doing them that way staggers them like the Camaro, and I'm gonna *assume* they used speed nuts or whatever as well. So, I'd say your "wooden chisel" theory is pretty darn close!

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I think I have it straight now. The tail pan was most likely never even removed. He just knocked the SS off, utilized two of the four existing holes to mount the crest and 427 emblems in the standard Camaro style staggered position, drilling through the tail panel trim and sheetmetal pan itself, used fast nuts to bolt them through the trunk simply leaving the two extra holes from the SS emblem exposed. It surprises me that Don made the effort he did to hide the fact that they were SS cars, I understand him wanting them to be perceived as HIS creations, but it's not like an SS was a bad thing back then. The extra work he did to delete the SS trim from the Novas in 69 was certainly more involved than the flat black rattle can method he employed on some of the '68 sYc Camaro gas caps. Thanks for the info Rob, looking forward to seeing the finished product at SCR7.

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[ QUOTE ]
It surprises me that Don made the effort he did to hide the fact that they were SS cars, I understand him wanting them to be perceived as HIS creations, but it's not like an SS was a bad thing back then.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're right, as the "SS" mystique carried a LOT of weight back then, but in my mind, I think he wanted the cars to be above and beyond the "SS". Not just performance options added to an "SS", but a whole other package on a whole other level, which the '69 COPO cars essentially were. Plus, the 9561 Camaros/Chevelles were devoid of "SS" emblems, so he probably wanted the Novas to get the same treatment. And back then, customers probably didn't know the Novas didn't get the 427s from the factory, and they probably didn't care. All they saw was little car, big engine!! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif[/img]

And, like you, I'm anxious to see it done as well. I've always said I'm a Chevelle guy, but this car is growing on me in a HURRY.If this thing goes deep into the 12s like I think it can, then I may become a convert!

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[ QUOTE ]
The Gibb Nova's all came with red lines and steel painted wheels.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, in '68. But by '69 the red lines were losing popularity to the RWLs. Chevelles and Camaros were getting the RWLs but the Novas still had white and red stripes. A friend on mine crashed his '68 L78 Chevelle and replaced it with a '69 L-78/M-40 Nova. It was a Fathom Green, Black Int. w/ steelies/ dog dish/ red stripe combo. I drove that car as much as he did for the first few months while he recuperated from the crash. ONE WILD RIDE! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif[/img]

Still, with the Lemans Blue/White stripe package I'd have to vote for the painted steels and white stripe tires. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif[/img] I think we all know what the extra pair of XTs will be wearing. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif[/img]

Just the opinion of an Ol' Man trying to relive the past! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif[/img] (But then aren't we all?)

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[ QUOTE ]
And back then, customers probably didn't know the Novas didn't get the 427s from the factory, and they probably didn't care.

[/ QUOTE ] I've always been under the assumption that most Yenko buyers suspected their cars were powered by a special "dyno tuned" Yenko installed 427 and not just a factory installed L-72 unit. Hence the generous 450 HP rating and the lack of any GM window sticker or documentation regarding the origin of the engine. Sure Don did this to keep others from stealing his COPO idea, but I think it also gave the sYc cars their super hi-performance aura from day one. It seems that it was a common misconception clear up until the 1980's that ALL Yenko cars were engine swaps...which we now know simply wasn't the case. Until this day if you stand around a Yenko car at a show you'll hear all sorts of misconstrued facts and stories regarding how the cars came to be 427's, and this seems to be especially true in my neck of the woods where much of the lore seems to have it's origins. I agree Yenko wanted something above and beyond Chevrolet's SS package, but I think that he actively sold the fact that Yenko Sportscars was the builder and what they were offering was far more potent than anything to be had elsewhere. I often wonder if anyone ever asked him flat out if they were factory installed 427's, or how he managed to do them so cleanly when people were used to seeing the speed shop underhood look of the Motion and Nickey converted cars. It still makes me wonder what the buyers of "regular" COPO Chevelles and Camaros that were purchased through other dealerships thought they were buying back in '69. I'm sure the original owner of LVCamaro's Azure Turquoise RS COPO knew what he was buying, preserving the car and every stitch of paperwork regarding it like he did, but at the same time I've heard of other owners saying they thought they were just buying a "plain 427 Camaro." [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif[/img] I guess people just weren't as concerned with what's "normally" available and what's not back then like they are today. I guess it's like you said Rob "all they saw was little car, big engine" and they started reaching for their wallets. Oh to have lived back then... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif[/img]

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So what's wrong with white stripe tires? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

My ex-Camaro.. I built. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/headbang.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/headbang.gif[/img]

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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I often wonder if anyone ever asked him flat out if they were factory installed 427's, or how he managed to do them so cleanly when people were used to seeing the speed shop underhood look of the Motion and Nickey converted cars.

[/ QUOTE ]

To be honest, I don't think that back then anyone looking to buy a new Yenko car even knew what a Motion or Nickey car was.. Back in the day when these things were new isn't like today.. These Supercars have been brought together by years and years of magazine features and fans and communications by enthusiasts amongst each other and not to mention today with the internet and www.yenko.net... You know? But back in 1969 when a Yenko 427 (name your car here) was brand spanking shiny new in front of Yenko Chevrolet.. I really doubt there was ANYONE pulling in and looking at that monster thinking.. 'you know, this don't look like a Baldwin/Motion car.... Chevrolet must've put this one together on the factory line'.. I Seriously doubt it. I think in todays world where we really think WAY TOO INDEPTH about what happened BACK THEN that made these awesome machines come out the way they did... I think we loose touch with reality a little too much and forget why we love these cars like we do.. When you get down to such minute details about which way should the head on the 1/2" fender bolt be facing and how much overspray under the rocker panels should there be in fractions of a cm.... Man it just gets to be too much.. Yes, I like to see a nicely restored car as close to what we think the factory put out as much as the next guy.. But the fact is the factorys that built the cars we love threw these things together as FAST as they possibly could and there isn't TWO single cars ever made that are the same. Back in the 1960s-early 70s.. There were no standards.. Not like we put on them today.. There were cars being built at 4:38 on Fridays back then and everyone knows what happens from about that time on.. You just want to get the hell out of work and go home.. Know what I mean? These are CARS... They are going to OUT LIVE ALL OF US... HAVE FUN with them.. DRIVE the damn things.. Money aside. Money comes.. Money goes. Don't be the 95 year old guy that in his next to last breath says... "I've got a Baldwin/Motion Camaro that I bought brand new .. and it's only got 300 Miles on it.. yep. I never drove it.. It's perfect.. "" CROKE...FLOP OVER DEAD.. Have fun guys. That's why were're here and that's why we were givin these toys.. What compares to value of pleasure of life? I will NEVER trailer a car and I will NEVER spend a week polishing a car just to show it at some judged (by who?) show and the push it back on to the trailer to take it home, polish it and wait for the next show to to take it to, polish it and repeat repeat repeat... I'm going to ENJOY my cars, just like I've always done... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif[/img] Live my friends.. LIVE.

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[ QUOTE ]
I don't think that back then anyone looking to buy a new Yenko car even knew what a Motion or Nickey car was.

[/ QUOTE ] I understand where you're coming from Ed, and I don't want to speak for them, but I think Marty Schorr and Joel Rosen would both beg to differ. The Motion cars were undeniably well advertised, and sure all of this was well before my time, but I think if you were in the market for an ultimate Chevrolet 427 performer back in the late 60's, you'd have read up a little on the subject before plunking down the kind of cake it took to buy one. My Dad was living in Pittsburgh in 68-69 and not only visited Yenko Chevrolet in the heyday but also knew quite well what a Baldwin-Motion car was. All it took was a trip to the newsstand. CARS magazines weren't hard to come by back then, or even today for that matter, and Marty's articles and Joel's 11 second guarentee made the Baldwin-Motion connection seem unstoppable. My father unfortunately didn't have the coin to buy one of these new supercars, but he did buy a brand new 68 Chevelle that almost immediately received a grafted on Motion influenced hoodscoop and a new set of mag wheels on redline tires. He did all of this to his brand new car going on nothing but what he'd read in magazines, and recognizing the bada** look the Motion cars had. A few years down the road he had a 69 Nova SS that he performed similar mods on, including sidepipes, Yenko Deuce inspired striping and a Motion hoodscoop. IMO, if you lived anywhere near Pittsburgh or Long Island NY in 68-69 and could read, you knew what a Motion and a Yenko was. Understanding how they came to be, and what they would become is another matter altogether... I agree with you Ed, we should enjoy these cars anyway we can, which is what makes the drag racing, and no judging format of the SCR the place to do it. It was nice meeting you at SCR6 and an interesting coincidence us both having the J-town connection. Looking forward to doing some more bench racing at SCR7. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif[/img]

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Part of which tuner car you choose depended on where you lived. Growing up in southern Missouri, we listened to WLS radio out of Chicago, thus knew about Nickey. But, because of Marty and his ads, I was well aware of Motion as well. I am sure I read about some of the other tuners, but those are the two that I remember most. But, if there had been a Chevy dealer in town who sold Yenkos, then I am sure that would have made a differnce. Instead, there was a Ford dealer across from the house, so I still remember the first Boss 302 and 429 to roll off of the transport.

And, the horsepower thing was very much a part of the game. Especially with Chevy. The ZL-1 5 HP more then the L-72, the L-78 going from 425 in the Vette to 375 in other models, etc. Back then, well, still today, a lot of buyers go with the engine boasting the highest HP rating, taking the dealers word that the numbers are correct. Some things never change.

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Absolutely man. I can't wait for SCR7. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif[/img]

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Ed very well said. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif[/img]

I would agree with this. I met a guy that is almost 50 years old and is not a die hard but does like old cars. He grew up on Long Island till he was about 21 years old and when I asked him about Baldwin/Motion he had no clue. The way he put it was there was 4 million people living on long Island so who knows. I also met a guy that actually bought a 69 Douglass/Canonsburg sold new Yenko Camaro back in 1970 used at Fencl Tufo Chevrolet and bought the car because it had a 427 and it was a cool color.(ralley green) The guy ended up keeping the car till the early 90's and still did not know who Yenko was or what the big deal was surrounding them. I made a thread about this subject a while back.

I agree with sYc about the Nickey thing. Because of the advertising that Nickey did on WLS radio back then you could ask almost any older person from the area about Nickey and they all know the Nickey jingle that was played constantly on the radio back then.

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[ QUOTE ]
Part of which tuner car you choose depended on where you lived.

[/ QUOTE ] I agree 100%, I'm from Pittsburgh, and 'till this day Yenko is the buzzword at the car shows. I'm sure it's the same way for Nickey near Chicago, Motion near Long Island, Harrell near Kansas City, etc. etc. I think the majority of people who bought a Yenko off of the Canonsburg lot had a pretty good understanding what those little R/W/B crests meant on the fenders. Otherwise they wouldn't have been so readily stolen to become keepsake mementos, or removed to confuse suspecting racers. I've even heard that BKH's old Fathom Green/Black stripe car was so equipped because the original owner wanted the stripes to "disappear" at night, so it made for easier roping of unsuspecting street racers. Let's also not forget what Ed Hedrick and Dick Harrell did to promote the Yenko name. They were at the drags every weekend tearing up the competition with a big Yenko crest on their doors and getting their pictures in the papers, that's why Yenko paid them $$$ to wear the name, same as Nickey paid for their radio spots. The Yenko name didn't just become synonomous with hi-performance since the 90's, it's something that has been instilled in anyone who was ever around a Yenko car when it was new. Sure there are exceptions, but ask friends or neighbors about original Yenko owners and their cars, the story is always the same "that was one runnin' SOB!" I probably just feel that way because I'm from Pittsburgh, where the Yenko legend is still alive and well. I'm sure you're partial to Nickey Frank, because of your locale. You could drive around Pittsburgh with a Nickey decal on the back and get far less questions about it than you would in a Chicago suburb, the same goes for Yenko out there I'd imagine, people just aren't drawn to it like they are here. But I'll argue that both dealers were well known in their day, or we wouldn't still be talking about them today, JMHO. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif[/img]

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Personally, i can't see how any true "car guy" living on the East coast in the late 60s-early 70s could not have heard about Motion. They advertised HEAVILY in nearly every east coast based magazine, and every other feature car was a car from Motion... they had the supercar club, etc etc..and had WAY more widely distributed advertising than Nickey, Berger,Yenko etc...Frank, you say Nickey was well known... yeah, that would be true in Chicago and close surrounding areas... but I believe Motion cars were known in a far wider area of the US due to the CARS, Speed and Supercar, etc. magazine articles and ads. As SC Kid stated, our dad and all his car buddies who were in their late teens-early 20s, living in the Pittsburgh area during the lates 60s-early 70s were VERY aware of Baldwin/Motion, even if they had never seen an actual Motion car or had gone to NY. This was due to the fact that they were advertised on the inside cover of all the cool car mags of the day. Yenko didnt advertise on a national level nearly as much, but was well known simply because of its proximity to them, much like Nickey was well known in the Chi-town area. Just like today, advertising was what got the cars known outside of the local area of the dealer, and I don't think anyone had more widespread advertising than Motion. Of course this is jmo, as i wasn't "there" either, just going by local folklore, etc. Around here, most 50-something car guys know the names Yenko, and Baldwin Motion very well, but many give you a puzzled look when you talk about Nickey, Dana, or Berger. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif[/img]

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Funny, lil' bro and I were typing essentially the same thing at the same time... Double teaming on ya Frank! ( think we BOTH need to go do some work we're actually getting PAID for! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] ) [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif[/img]

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Joe I definitly agree with you that Motion was the most widely known Supercar builder. Worldwide even..not just USA. Look at how many Motion cars were exported out of the country.. I wish I knew how many exported Motion cars still exist and what they are.. I sure would like to see a huge full color hardbound book featuring EVERY SINGLE Motion car ever made.. That would keep me drooling for hours. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

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[ QUOTE ]
And, the horsepower thing was very much a part of the game. Especially with Chevy. The ZL-1 5 HP more then the L-72, the L-78 going from 425 in the Vette to 375 in other models, etc. Back then, well, still today, a lot of buyers go with the engine boasting the highest HP rating, taking the dealers word that the numbers are correct. Some things never change.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, that's why there were so many "435" HP Corvettes on the road! MUCH more power than the lowly L-88 at only 430 HP! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif[/img]

I guess there are a few advantages to growing up in the midwest because I too was aware of all the major tuner Dealers during the '60s and '70s. We ran the local dragstrip and devoured all the magazines we could get our hands on. I've always been aware of Nickey, Dana, B/M, Yenko, Harrell, etc. Not that I'm proud of my advanced age but it sure was fun growing up with all this stuff and now seeing the renewed interest, I get to do it all over again! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif[/img]

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I think the special dealer/tuner cars made today are going to be even harder to keep track of in the future because of the sheer number of them being built. Also they are not being as advertised as much. Most just have a little 1/4 section in one of the mags. I've been trying to save up all the magazines with Mustangs being specially built today and I have literally lost track. Saleen, Roush, Sean Hyland among a zillion others. Every month in the Mustang mags there are 4-5 "special" limited production cars being offered. Heck, Roush is coming out with a new car every month comemerating some obscure event or person.

However, I don't think these cars will be as high priced as a a ZL-1 is today because people are buying these cars and keeping every scrap of paper and taking photos and notes. One of the rules the Antiques & Collectibles crowd goes by is never buy somthing for an investment if it has the world collectibleon the box because 10,000 other people are doing the same thing. 25 years from now these cars will be plentiful because people are buying them for future collectibility and are not driving them in the winter, low miles and if they are modifying them further are keeping all the parts they take off. Just read a story where a guy bought a Roush and bought 3 sets of extra tires, seats and other wear items so he can replace them in the future with the correct parts when needed.

I doubt too many guys did this when buying the Yenko's, Motion cars, Hemi Darts or ZL-1's.

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I know that I am going to get bashed for this but I think that most of you rely to heavily on "what was in the magazines" back then. People did not live in their magazines, they lived on the streets with their cars. What would be a good guess as to how many of the muscle/supercars produced actually made it into magazines? What about 1% if that? IMO people went with what was popular in their area or what their friends had. For example didn't Kieth Tetford say that when he bought his COPO Chevelle new in Canada 3 of his friends bought one? What about all the COPO Camaro's that were sold originally in Ohio? One person bought a COPO then their friends wanted one etc., etc. I am not trying to start a beef but just giving my humble opinion.

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I agree Frank, magazines were not the "end all" for how people became aware of, or interested in these cars...there was obviously "word of mouth" and the "copy cat" thing you mentioned, where one person saw what someone else bought, and wanted one of their own... that still happens today for that matter... but i DO think magazines did play a HUGE role in how car guys got their info about who was building what, how much, and where to get one... i think the magazines of yesterday held nearly as much reponsibility for "spreading the word" as the internet (and this website!) does today. I also agree with Whitetop that today's "instant collectible" cars will not see such a tremendous increase in value in the years to come as the 60s era supercar have...for many of the reasons he mentioned, but thats a different topic all together! Say...weren't we talking about whitewalls? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img][img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif[/img]

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The one major thing that attracted me to Motion were the hands on articles in the magazines--A person could read these articles on all kinds of hop-up engine/car info and visit the Motion shop and talk about something you actually read about, it was like you were looking over their
shoulder at the time.---- This and the fact that Joel,Mr. Motion was giving such detailed tune-up info and proven packages, made it a pleasure to go there and talk about a car test.----Some Brooklyn car guys knew about Motion, a lot didn't,it depended if they followed the magazines.---There were a ( LOT )of high performance/speed shops in brooklyn and Queens --S&K(still around), Vitar,Nunzi Automotive( which is still around), Jack Merkel etc the list goes on,so you really didn't have to travel all the way to Motion to get special Hi-po work done on your car.-----What was appealing , was being able to purchase a new car thru a Authorized Chevrolet Dealer,Baldwin/Motion, and get almost any speed option available and still get a limited or full warranty.Now back in the'60's (my experiences),at least in Brooklyn, car dealerships gave you a hard time if you brought a car to them for warranty work and it wasn't purchased from them,so the thought of having to travel a good distance to Baldwin,L.I. and possibly leave the car there for any warranty problems or just some Hi-po work wasn't too appealing.---Anyway they were good times and the hobby got a second and third wind,so like ORIGLS6 ,I also get to relive it again.--JoeG [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif[/img]

P.S. Sorry --Whitewalls----LIKE THEM
Redlines-----LIKE THEM

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Another thing to take into consideration is many of the mags that promoted Motion were regionally based-North east or eastern or upper midwest like Chicago etc. In Eastern Ohio where I live, Hot Cars, Speed & Supercar, Rodder & Super Stock etc where not available here back then.
I've picked up all my mags of this type usually at Carlisle or other eastern shows.

I've sold hundreds on Ebay and many times more than not my average bidder is usually from out West because those areas did not stock or ship those mags out there. I can't tell you how many people from other parts of the country said they were active car guys back then and never knew these mags existed.
Also look at the cars featured in these mags. The majority were from some borough in Queens, Flushing or Brooklyn and I swear the owners name always started with Vinnie or had an Italian last name.

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You're right Dave. Italians have the coolest & fastest cars.

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I agree, everyone who bought a supercar back in the day didn't necessarily see it in a magazine first, but at least one example of a magazine selling a car can be told by Mr. Ray Morrison. Just ask him where he got the idea to buy his Gibb/Harrell COPO '68 Nova and he'll show you. Not only does he still own the car, he still has the original magazine that lit his lightbulb back in '68. He even has the Gibb calendar he used to count down the days to delivery. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] I never asked him if he ever heard of, or considered buying any other supercars at that time, perhaps I'll pop that one at the next SCR. Here's to you Ray! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif[/img]

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My original owner found an ad for the Yenko Deuces in The National Dragster!

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The Motion cars were more of a custom built car that could be ordered to the specification of the owner with advice from Joel. The Yenko cars were sold through the Yenko dealer network as a complete car. There are exceptions as some of the Yenkos were sold modified. The big factor in selling the Supercars was of course the over size engine. What made the Supercars special was the fact that you can get a larger engine then the factory would provide. Many of the original Yenko owners I spoke with said they didn't know what Yenko was when they first saw the car on a dealer's lot. What sold them on the car wasn't the Yenko emblem it was the four-two-seven emblem.

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Bill Hunter at many SC Reunions.
Original owner of his DY Yenko Camaro.
Great guy,and his story is incredible.I would listen to him if he were reading the phone book. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif[/img]

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Those yenko novas bring out the best, positive, and most informative posts, don't they? Not to mention funny at times, Mike! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif[/img]

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JoeC is right on the money, I have spoken to several original Yenko Camaro owners as well and several have mentioned that they thought the Yenko hood stripes were Z28's. Then when they were passing it by, they noticed the '427' on the hood and stopped for a second look. After the test drive they were filling out the paperwork!

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I have a couple cars pre-owned by Italians and I always found small pieces of Mortadella, a little Prosciutto and Provolone between the seats so I think Sixtiesmuscle must be right...Italians = coolest ,fastest cars and big Italian sangwiches [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif[/img] Yo Adrienne

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Belair,

Did you ever find a conolli? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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Will one of these BEASTS(69 SYC Nova) be making some passes at SCR7? Don Yenko claimed 0-60 in the 4 second range! Thats what I call quick, if that is true I don't think any other supercar from that era will have anything for that! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif[/img] Kevin the cars looked AWESOME at Pigeon Forge, has the Nova been restored since you have owned it, it really stood tall among some great supercars! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif[/img]

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I know the Don Yenko quote that the 427 Novas were "A beast, it was almost lethal", and he goes on to say that the Camaros and Chevelles were heavier and not quite the performers that the Nova was. It is a great legend, and it hurts to question it since I am such a huge Nova fan, but the data seems to contradict the legend. The weight of a V8 69 Camaro was 3105 lbs, while the V8 69 Nova was 3175 lbs.
The data is side by side on the same page of the 1969 service manual. So I just don't see any reason that the 427 Nova would have been quicker than the similar Camaro. Comments?

Re: Visible progress!
 

Thats kind of a tough one.. Because weights can vary car to car. There is no doubt that the 69 Camaro and Nova were real damn close in the weight department. Especially sharing much of the same hardware. But the Nova being a couple inches longer.. (I'm not sure which is wider).. But then it comes down to which model had the beefier shell.. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif[/img] Judging on perfomance figures from each car (L72 powered)in past magazine articles and seeing them perform live and what not.. I'd say average for both would be mid to low 13's at 105-108 mph. Fair guess?? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/headbang.gif[/img]
So what I'm thinking is that if Yenko did have a test 427 Nova run an "accurate" 0-60 in 4 secs or less, That baby was no STOCK L72. Because that's getting into 427 AC Cobra territory and how much do they weigh? 2500lbs or so soaking wet with a full tank of gas and a fat guy riding shotgun?
And here's the final kicker with that quote from Yenko.. Now don't get me wrong and don't bash on me because you all know how much I LOOOOOOVEE YENKO Novas [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif[/img], but you can't argue with these facts.. I've got a Road Test article of a 69 Baldwin/Motion Phase III SS427 Nova, which we ALL know would not have ANY problems showing a Yenko 427 Nova it's ass end... This thing is built to the hilt as we know all B/M phase III machines to be and here are the perfomance figures from this Nova.
0-30 -- 2.8 sec
0-60 -- 5.1 sec
standing 1/4 mile -- 11.88 sec @ 115 mph
top speed -- 125 mph (est)
fuel consumption -- 6-11 mpg

The Red Yenko 427 Nova that Supercars owns that was featured in Guide To Muscle Cars Magazine many years ago now.. the article that made those quotes famous where "0-60 in under 4 sec and the car running 10.90s in the 1/4". Those were either exagerated numbers or that car had some MAJOR work done to it when it ran those times. Now don't get me wrong because I'm not bashing that Nova one bit.. As a matter of fact I fell in love with that Nova YEARS ago.. Even before Kevin owned it. And I built this (It's a model of Kevin's 427 Yenko Nova. Pics too large to attach. Email me if you want to see pics of it. I tried attaching them...) as a tribute to that car some 13-14 years ago.

There is no doubt a 427 Nova is a beast. But who's to say which is the fastest??

Kevin.. You own and have drivin most of these machines we've been discussing... Which one is the fastest and strongest one? Which one are you SCARED of? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif[/img] Thats the question.. Because THAT'S the one I want to ride in. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/headbang.gif[/img]

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif[/img]

Re: Visible progress!
 

Hey Schoneye; I checked that sheet with the reference to Kevin's wheels, and it indeed says F70x14 tires. So, that leads me to believe that they changed the tires also on that car - probably to RWL like the other '69 Yenko cars. Looks like Kevin can go either way with that one!

I have some very early pics of K.Hand's '69 Yenko Nova that rowdyrat obtained, looks like steelies - but maybe with trim rings installed also. The car also has the SS on the tail panel (off-center) and front grille. I can't see the front fenders in these pics to tell which marker light bezel is installed.

Re: Visible progress!
 

Ed,

We took the SCCA '69 vette out to the dragstrip in Tulsa one time to sort out a shifter problem and it went 11:40 at 119 mph in full roadrace trim (10.5" front 11.5" wide rear - hard road racing slicks) Shifted to 4th just before the line and made the first turnoff too...! (Doubt many cars can do that at that speed) and no I didn't have to lock the brakes to do it either. In fact I got in trouble for going too fast back down the return road... (grin)

That was a small block .. (4:10 gear - 350ci- 6" Corrillo Rods - chev offroad cam-cast iron, angle plug heads-stahl headers-dry sump oiling system-m-22 trans-single 800cfm Holley carb)

So those times that they showed back then, sound reasonable to me. My '66 425hp stock vette went 11:90's at 110 mph. On MT cheater slicks.
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Hey Marlin, care to share those pics with the rest of us? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif[/img]

Re: Visible progress!
 

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif[/img] We need to go start having some fun like that again Larry. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/headbang.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/headbang.gif[/img]
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