|
Re: Fastest Musclecar?
This is gonna hard to pin down. What sources should we use? Old road tests? Original onwer stories? Current owner's experiences?
I noticed a few things on the list above, which has made it's way around the internet and in many mags. First off, the trap speed on the '68 Biscayne test, which is listed as 105, is wrong: it trapped over 108. Oddly, whoever made up the first list didn't read the article (which we have) which states this fact, but instead they posted the incorrect 105 number, and this got error got regurgitated. Also, there was an L-72 Chevelle tested that ran a 13.31@108+ which is absent from the list. The same mag that tested the previous 3 cars (SS&DI) tested an L-72 Camaro, but started with headers, which pushed it easily into the twelves (the Biscyane and Chevelle test were done bone stock without turning even a wrench). So, it seems an L-72 equipped steel bodied car was good for REALLY low 13s at better than 108mph, and a Corvette would put it into the 12s with a huge mph. Also worth noting is the L-88 Corvette in the test, which was equipped with 3.36 gears and an automatic. Talk about mismatched equipment...there's nothing much worse than a huge cam (power range was listed as 4,400-7,000) coupled with a low stall (2,200rpm) converter coupled with hi-way gears. It's impressive it still ran a [email protected] imagine if it was a 4-speed with some decent gears? Oh, and it would be safe to say a ZL-1 Corvette would have knocked a tenth or two off of the ZL-1 Camaro's time just due to the lighter weight. Now, carry on! |
Re: Fastest Musclecar?
Rob I have to agree with you That it is real hard to say what was the fastest
The hemi dart was not a factory built car. There was a lot of cars built at the factory that Would move . but as far as what was the fastest out of the box ??? Depends on who did the testing. First you could have a killer car and have some one that does not know how to drive it So you would see this car at the track or on the street and think it was a dog I have seen this far to many times. As I all ways see it #1 is the driver #2 how well it was tuned # 3 weather conditions These three factors are just as important as what was under the hood So what was the fastest ?? Today a dodge 440 can beat a camaro 427 Tomorrow the camaro blows off the 440 . The next day it could be a Buick grand sport or Pontiac gto, and so the debate will go on. I have been to a few factory show downs years ago and the end result was never the same. So what was the fastest ALL OF THEM [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Norm |
Re: Fastest Musclecar?
You also have to remember that a lot of the press cars were "tweaked" to make them look good to potential buyers. I've heard of 383 Mopars that really had 440s in them for the press to test out. I'm sure it's just a rumor though, we know that everybody was playing by the rules back then. [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif[/img] It's hard to use magazine tests, but I guess there isn't much else unless you have original owner time slips.
|
Re: Fastest Musclecar?
The manufactures tweaked lots of things, for example, Pontiacs flagship was the GTO, they wanted the public to believe that to be there quickest car, then along comes the 400 Firebird which was quicker due to less weight. Pontiacs answer? They installed a block on the throttle linkage of the Firebird to stop it from opening all the way, thereby giving the GTO the advantage and Pontiac the ability to continue to claim the goat as there premier musclecar. How many of you guys heard that one before? Motown [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/cool.gif[/img]
|
Re: Fastest Musclecar?
Somehow those elapsed times should be adjusted to account for increased tire and track performance.
For example, that 66 Shelby, at 118 mph, should certainly run somewhere in the 11's. If you sort that list by MPH, all the cars below should be capable of a sub-thirteen second ET (based on the fact that my full body-full interior 65 Chevelle runs a 12 at 104 mph with my "full body" in it)...Hmm, the thirty fastest production cars - 3 Fords, 10 Chryslers, 14 Chevies, two Ponchos (one with a Chevy motor)and one Buford. That means half of the fastest cars are Chevy powered..not bad! -Sam ET Rank Year Model ET Speed Engine Trans Rear 2 1966 Cobra 12.2 118 427-425, 8V 4 man 3.45 1 1997 Viper GTS 12.05 116 V10 450 HP 6 man 3.07 3 1990 ZR1 Corvette 12.8 113.8 350-375 LT5 6 man 3.36 4 1966 L72 Corvette 12.8 112 427-425 4 man 4.10 5 1969 Roadrunner 12.91 111.8 440-390, 6V 4 man 4.10 20 1969 L88 Corvette 13.56 111.1 427-430 auto 3.36 10 1969 ZL1 Camaro 13.16 110.21 427-430 4 man 4.10 11 1997 Corvette 13.2 109.3 350-345 LS1 6 man 3.42 18 1969 Charger 500 13.48 109 426-425 4 man 4.10 12 1997 Camaro Z28 SS 13.2 108.8 350-300 LT4 6 man 3.42 8 1992 Viper RT/10 13.1 108.488 V10 400 HP 6 man 3.07 14 1968 L71 Corvette 13.3 108 427-435 4 man 3.70 38 1967 L71 Corvette 13.8 108 427-435 4 man 3.55 15 1970 Roadrunner 13.34 107.5 426-425 auto 4.10 27 1964 Polara 500 13.7 107.37 426-365 4 man 3.23 7 1970 Hemi Cuda 13.1 107.12 426-425 4 man 3.54 9 1970 LS6 Chevelle SS 13.12 107.01 454-450 4 man 3.55 13 1990 Pontiac Firehawk 13.2 107 350-350 6 man 3.54 17 1996 Camaro Z28 SS 13.46 106.48 350-310 6 man 3.42 22 1969 Boss 429 Mustang 13.6 106 429-375 4 man 3.91 33 1971 Cuda 13.72 106 440-390, 6V auto 4.10 37 1968 Firebird 13.79 106 400-335 HO 4 man N/A 24 1970 Torino Cobra 13.63 105.9 429-370 SCJ auto 3.91 21 1969 Super Bee 13.56 105.6 440-390, 6V auto 4.10 16 1970 Buick GS Stage I 13.38 105.5 455-360 auto 6.34 46 1962 Corvette Fuelie 13.89 105.14 327-360 4 man 4.10 28 1996 Corvette Gran Sport 13.7 105.1 350-330 LT4 6 man 3.45 43 1969 L78 Nova SS 13.87 105.1 396-375 auto 3.55 25 1968 Biscayne 13.65 105 427-425 4 man 4.56 31 1969 Dart 13.71 105 440-375 auto 3.55 |
Re: Fastest Musclecar?
Sam:
No big deal, just being "picky" I guess, but the '68 Biscayne actually trapped 108, but is always incorrectly listed as 105. Just looking out for another L-72 car! [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif[/img] |
Re: Fastest Musclecar?
Thanks Rob, I missed that point earlier, makes the Biscayne the MPH equal of the L71 Corvettes! I'm sure you could get one into the 12's with 10" slicks!
-Sam |
Re: Fastest Musclecar?
found this on the web muscle car shoot out
http://www.yearone.com/bristolbash/b...tshootout.html show what a ZL-1 does with a poor driver [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/crazy.gif[/img] |
Re: Fastest Musclecar?
|
Re: Fastest Musclecar?
QUOTE....."Shows what a ZL-1 camaro does with a poor driver" [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] That's funny!!!.... OUCH TERRY !!!!!!
Peter |
Re: Fastest Musclecar?
Bad driver?! YIKES! Not to speak for Terry, but I'm guessing he was having some kind of problems or something on the early run(s)...I even think rain was an issue at that event. Any way, that car has ran 11.4s, and even ran 11.70 at that event...that car will FLY.
|
Re: Fastest Musclecar?
The reason I said a poor driver I saw a video where Terry was a sleep at the light more than once
Very poor reaction time, so I was led to believe he did know how to drive it [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/shocked.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/blush.gif[/img] Maybe He did have problems but my frist reaction was that he was a little slow off the line Norm [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/shocked.gif[/img] |
Re: Fastest Musclecar?
Look at his mph on that run....96 or 98 something happened...maybe rain
in his other runs, in this issue of hot rod, his mph is more like 121 [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif[/img] that got him an 11.48 Don't worry, I am sure COPO Pete should have some numbers for us in no time in his "new" zl1 [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/shocked.gif[/img] |
Re: Fastest Musclecar?
"new zl1"...? Do tell!
|
Re: Fastest Musclecar?
|
Re: Fastest Musclecar?
Nice...should have finished reading before I posted!
|
Re: Fastest Musclecar?
If you want to say Hemi dart/Cuda, then ya, it's a toss-up on whether you can consider them 'Factory Built'.
But the 1965 A990 Hemi Coronets and Belvederes came down the assembly line, and produced 11.09/125mph. Read more about them here: 1965 A990's Bevedere and Coronet Any Hemi car that was not equipped with the Factory Crossram race hemi cannot be considered a contender. The inline dual quad motored cars were a much milder version (street hemi) than it's previous cars. |
Re: Fastest Musclecar?
1 Attachment(s)
Found a pic of new Hemi Darts and Barracudas. It was built by a vendor to race in Super Stock and was sold as an unfinished race car with narrow tires just for shipping. I don't think it would run in the 12s in the as delivered condition but it is not really a factory built car. The ZL1 Camaros were also built for Super Stock but were sold as a complete car. I would vote for the ZL1 Corvette as the quickest car to leave a real factory assembly line. (for the old school cars)
|
Re: Fastest Musclecar?
Was the 11.09@125mph done through the stock exhaust and on the skinnies? Didn't they still come with regular exhaust installed?
|
Re: Fastest Musclecar?
According to one article the Hemi Dart came with headers but it does not day if there was any mufflers or exhaust pipe.
|
Re: Fastest Musclecar?
No mufflers or exhaust. Motown [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/cool.gif[/img]
|
Re: Fastest Musclecar?
Was it the WO/RO Hemi cars that got a crappy single exhaust wired up in anticipation of adding headers? I heard this rumor on both the WO/RO and Hurst/Hemi cars (possibly neither?), but I'm not up on my Mopar trivia like I need to be!
|
Re: Fastest Musclecar?
1 Attachment(s)
I found an ad from 1974 listing the Motion 9 sec Vega. This had to be one of the most outrageous cars ever offered for sale to the general public. It was not long after this ad appeared that the Feds came in to the Motion garage to look around.
|
Re: Fastest Musclecar?
Does anyone have an opinion regarding the 1970 Buick GS, 455 Stage 1? I have been told that this Buick was fastest muscle car produced [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/smirk.gif[/img] . I have had numerous debates regarding this issue! [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]
|
Re: Fastest Musclecar?
Mike I forgot all about the buick GS stage 1 I think you are right you normally you do not think of a buick as a muscle car
As far as how it was right out of the box the 455 stage 1 was rated at 350 Hp @ 4600 but had a wopping 510 ft lbs of torque [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/shocked.gif[/img] Buick had planed a stage II only a few were built before Gm cancelled them It was said that the stage II could run the Ü mile around 10.90 at 121 mph [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/shocked.gif[/img] . I do not known if there are any of them around today ?? I would think that would be real rare [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Also lets not forget AMCs 1970 reble with a 390 @340hp with 430 ft lbs of torque |
Re: Fastest Musclecar?
It is my undersatnding that only one ,or maybe two, Stages IIs were made. I don't know too much about them. A friend of mine has an article on the Stage IIs that he is going to give me and hopefully it will give me some good information on these cars.
|
Re: Fastest Musclecar?
Mike
All I can find right now is there was around 50 stage II heads built Not to say how many engines were really built It would be Real interesting to find out [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/cool.gif[/img] |
Re: Fastest Musclecar?
Found more info StageII was a over the counter package only No production cars built as a stageII The heart of the stage II was the cam 455 in 480 ex with 455 in and 480 ex duration An aluminum intake with a 850 cfm Holley on top The big thing was the heads
With redesigned ports good for an extra 50hp http://216.136.200.194/auction/Jan/2...2413343548.jpg |
Re: Fastest Musclecar?
Renoylds, At one time I owned Amc's Rebel "The Machine", The owners manual claimed 14 second quarter mile times, which the car would do. Lets also not forget the AMX with the GO PACK in 1969.
Motown. [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/cool.gif[/img] |
Re: Fastest Musclecar?
Those Machines are scarce these days MM....
|
Re: Fastest Musclecar?
|
Re: Fastest Musclecar?
Belair, Are you interested in one of the rebel "Machines"? I know where two are that could be bought, one traditional red/white/blue. Rough needing complete resto but complete #s matching, and another with the rare copper color that is a solid southern car with frame on at home resto but #s matching. I believe they could both be had reasonable, depending on the mood of the owners that day. I sold one last year on Ebay, body only X-race car, only had 6700 actual miles,(1/4 at a time) nice original body though, brought $5500.00. Let me know if you want a rambler in your garage and I will go shoot a pic of the white one,(sitting next to a garage for 10 years) and forward it to you with owners #. Motown. [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/cool.gif[/img]
|
Re: Fastest Musclecar?
Slow down..I only said they were scarce !!! I didn't say I wanted to breed a new strain !!! Seriously....nice looking cars...the blue one Marlin posted is neat...they are really a good looking car in the 3/4 rear view. Was the r/w/b paint scheme similar to the SC/Rambler ?
|
Re: Fastest Musclecar?
|
Re: Fastest Musclecar?
|
Re: Fastest Musclecar?
|
Re: Fastest Musclecar?
If it checks out, this may be the only car out there that could claim to be a Buick GS "Stage II"...
http://www.highway-one.com/Classifie...nsonBuick.html ...unfortunately, the ad appears to be three years old! -Sam |
Re: Fastest Musclecar?
10.32/128 mph 600 hp now that IS a super car
. A year to late by 1970 between the insurance co and the epa it was dead before it took off Can of puts it in the same categories as a ZL-1 I wonder what that car would be worth today as it would be more rare than a ZL-1 and if it was the only one prototype [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif[/img] |
Re: Fastest Musclecar?
Marlin, the "Rebel Machine" you linked to is another rare color as most were Red/White/Blue, the one pictured has an incorrect standard Rebel grille as with or without the patriotic color scheme the grille lacked the center T-bars. If they were white the R/W/B was included in the grille as well as the center armrest. I am adding a link to a photo from an original ad, the marketing was a kick as one phrase states, "For instance, it is not as fast on the getaway as a 427 Corvette, or a Hemi, but it is faster on the getaway than a Volkswagen, a slow freight train, and your old mans Cadillac." It seems I remember this was possibly another Hurst prepared car, or it may have been its predecessor, the Rambler Scrambler from 1969. Ohhh....the memories of Detroit that leave a odd legacy. Motown [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/cool.gif[/img]
http://www.boomspeed.com/ezmatt/Dsc00435.jpg |
Re: Fastest Musclecar?
I love those SC/Ramblers! I have one on on my "cars to aquire list"! [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/cool.gif[/img]
|
| All times are GMT. The time now is 07:12 AM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions Inc.