Re: Any 2002 ZL1's left to buy?
 

Not to sound stuck up or anything, but I would prefer to let Matt let you know about the site. As far as I know he is only telling owners. I think other owners would agree, I guess you can say it is one of the perks to getting one of these "worthless waste of money" cars as some would say Supercars. I am sure there are perks you get for owning the fine Berger SS that others do not get. So I hope you understand. Sorry.

Re: Any 2002 ZL1's left to buy?
 

Wouldn't have it any other way!!

once a perk always a perk...
(however worthless it may be!)

Re: Any 2002 ZL1's left to buy?
 

Not to defend a party-pooper, but '69rsss350' did [somewhat begrudgingly] predict that the 3 Camaros that 'rich p' posted would "end up in the stable of one or two board members". Is it possible that he is pretty good at predicting the future? [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif[/img] His point then, and I believe his point now is that "it's all about the money".

When the tach is hovering at 6,000 and the fun-meter is pegged on 100%...do you lucky guys that own one ever think about the $$$ or the Blue Book? If so, do us poor envious guys a favor...exit your car and never, never get in it again! [Then call me for a low-wholesale offer.] [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Any 2002 ZL1's left to buy?
 

Barker check your PM if you haven't already! Thanks

I could be wrong but, I believe there are 67 different owners of these cars. So not all of them are going to collectors. I know I will keep the Camaro spirit alive by driving mine like I stole it. It might not be my daily driver, but it also won't be a trailer queen either. My daily drive is my 96 SS modified ride, or at least until I get my newly acquired LS1 motor in my 82 Z [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

I do have to admit though, I would like to think I will get an extra buck on it in the far future if I need to sell it.

[img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] But I won't have to sell it cuz I'm going to win the Florida Lotto today!! [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif[/img] 100 mill Baby!

Re: Any 2002 ZL1's left to buy?
 

If you win, don't forget your buddies on this board who foam at the mouth for 427 cubes!!

Re: Any 2002 ZL1's left to buy?
 

O.K. so now it takes a real Prophet to determine that this is the place to advertise Super Cars for sale and get them sold to members/contacts. Super cars have been trading/selling amungst members since prior to the existence of this Forum.

I know for a "fact" that some owners have been offered more than MSRP to Purchase one of the 69 GMMG ZL1s and that one Dealership, which has not presold their allocation plans to ask for a Substantial additional dealer mark-up or market adjustment.

All the GMMG built cars are very special and It doesn't hurt that Matt Murphy and his employees are true Camaro and Super Car Enthusiasts. [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Why is it that those who have no interst or connection to a particular vehicle whether a Super Car or late Model GMMG built car feel Compelled to speak out adversly about the subject?

Lets see; Zero to 60 in 4 second range, 1/4 mile times slips in the low 11 second range, top speed of 190 mph and lap time on a tight Road race course that will send a Ferrari Marenello back to the pits in shame. All this packaged as a tribute to the Legendary Super Cars of Yesterday and wearing a Vintage Blue Bowtie on the front grill built on a platform which is an American Icon.

Oh yeah you can pull up to the staging lights with the A/C blowing Ice cold [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/cool.gif[/img]

Gee, who would ever want such a car, you know after all we have been "advised" that they are certainly not an investment. [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/confused.gif[/img]

Re: Any 2002 ZL1's left to buy?
 

Sorry to jump on the band wagon but Mike B why do you insist in making stupid smart ass comments constantly? [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/mad.gif[/img]

Re: Any 2002 ZL1's left to buy?
 

Stupid? Smart ass? I guess maybe you could think that if you are narrow minded. Thursday I purchased a car that when new in 95 had an MSRP of 123K (Mercedes SL600, red, Palomino interior) in pristine condition with books and records, low miles for the year for 27k. How was that for an investment? I recently purchased a 2002 Camaro SS Convertible SLP equipped with 4 K miles for 20K. I also Thursday purchased a 2001 Z28 6 speed with 53K but in great condition for $9500. I am not trying to compare these cars to 2002 ZL1s but it appears none were a great investment for the original owners. Seems you guys are awful sensitive. I guess 21 years in the car business does not qualify me to state an opinion? Enjoy your cars, I wish I owned one myself. I reguarly buy 1 to 2 year old cars, trucks and SUVs for half of what they sold for new. I hope all you guys can sell your ZL1s for double what you paid. I have a right to an opinion, I merely stated it. I was not trying to ruffle feathers. If you were offended, perhaps it was because you are hoping I was incorrect. Time will tell. By the way Happy Holidays to all.
Mike

Re: Any 2002 ZL1's left to buy?
 

wow somebody woke up charlie,dave and frank, me too! its all in the delivery . comments like these could be made much more tactfully! the comments do seem rather pointed and insulting. by the way how much over sticker would you be willing to pay, sorry i forgot, mine is not for sale.

sick em dave!!!!!

Re: Any 2002 ZL1's left to buy?
 

I certainly don't think that Frank expressed any form of a narrow minded opinion, and quite the contrary IMO. I feel confident in stating that I know exactly how many of us (GMMG Buyers) will call you before we make our next automobile purchase. Hows that for a pediction Mr. Nostrodomus?

Re: Any 2002 ZL1's left to buy?
 

Stefano, I couldn't give a **** about whether you like my opinion or not. I expressed mine if you don't like it that is up to you. Get a grip.

Re: Any 2002 ZL1's left to buy?
 

you are buying cars that are a dime a dozen, why would anybody buy a z28 that had 40000 cars built and think it could be an investment, even the SS you bought isn't an investment when considering how many were built 3100 to 3300 and look how many are on dealer lots. Your 123,000 mercedes still had more built than 69. Know granted I would suspect that it will hold it value over the years to come, but limited production hold value if not go up. Try buying a Lambo or an exotic for less than sticker after 2 or 3 years.

Re: Any 2002 ZL1's left to buy?
 

My Grip it tight and firm, thank you.

Re: Any 2002 ZL1's left to buy?
 

Please excuse the typing job on that last post of mine. [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/blush.gif[/img]

My son was trying to type for me! [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Any 2002 ZL1's left to buy?
 

stefano, belk, charlie, and frank have a good grip! i am not buying mine to wholesale, and i don't think the others are either, they may change hands, but not at a loss. i have 20 years experience in the business, and even i can't predict or anyone else for that matter, only speculate.
however i didn't buy mine to wholesale in 1-2 years, just to drive and have fun with, drive maybe. your opinion is you opinion but you always seem to think of this as wholsaleing, not collecting or fun of the hobby. based on your response maybe you should keep your opinion to yourself! IMO these guys are not off track !
BTW have a great day, i am on my way to church!

Re: Any 2002 ZL1's left to buy?
 

In reply to what this post originally started out as: I dropped my Tahoe off for service at West Chevrolet Friday and while there I talked with Steve West about his ZL-1's. He stated that he has sold the black and silver cars (the silver is his) but the dk. blue and the white ones have not been sold. Delivery date is unknown for the two unsold units but he expects the other two sometime next month.......................RatPack............... .

Re: Any 2002 ZL1's left to buy?
 

Which color do you guys think is the most popular among the new ZL1's?

Clint W.
Berger #56

Re: Any 2002 ZL1's left to buy?
 

Is EVERYONE a used car salesman on this site now ?

Re: Any 2002 ZL1's left to buy?
 

Why, you got something against guys that sell used cars? Careful here! [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

Re: Any 2002 ZL1's left to buy?
 

i own and run a honda dealership, and own part of a chain of dealerships and have every other dealership you might think of. i love my job and love selling cars, but , i am not a wholesaler or broker , but do sell a few cars from time to time. i don't think it is fair to the hobbyist to consider this as a wholsalers point of view, we are hobbyist, collectors, and enthusiasts. i think we can only make a buck if our interests change.if we do this is ok!. not just for the $$$$$$$$$$$$$ as you continue to emphasize!

Re: Any 2002 ZL1's left to buy?
 

No I don't have anything against used car salesman at all. They're fun to listen to.Did you ever get that set of Torque Thrusts you were looking for ?

Re: Any 2002 ZL1's left to buy?
 

Look, you narrow minded guys that insist on denigrating my profession, I never said anything about wholesaleing. You guys read into it what you wanted to. I stated a very simple opinion and you are stating yours. Only time will tell who is right, if you guys turn out to be right and you sell your 75K 2002 ZL1s for a profit, I, for one, am happy for you and will be the first to admit my mistake. How many of you will do the same if I turn out to be correct? Either way, it is just not that big of a deal is it? You own a Honda dealership and part of a chain? Wonderful. Do you sell used cars at this dealership and chain? Do you wholesale cars? Some of you guys are so full of yourselves it makes me sick. Millionaires collecting cars for the fun of it? Trading and selling cars between your small group of "enthusiasts" and furthering the hobby? You guys just keep jacking yourselves off. I think it is pathetic. It is really hard for some of you guys to admit that it is all about the money, isn't it! Now bring it on, because your responses are totally predictable...
1)I'm not in it for the money, I do it because I love these old cars and I am trying to preserve history.

2)I just enjoy the thrill of collecting old muscle cars to bring back my youth.

3)Have you ever owned a 600hp 6spd car or driven one?

4)If I don't do it someone else would. (But they would be doing it for the money also).

5)Some people collect art, some coins, stamps or other pieces of memorbilia. I collect cars cause I love them. If someone else has one I really want, price doesn't matter because I am just a keeper for future generations lest they forget.

6) all the other myriad of excuses/reasons you "elite" will come up with


Supercars or food for your family? You guys don't have to make that choice, because, if you did the flames that are fixin to come my way, would never come.

You guys are not furthering the hobby you are ruining it for the average guy that has to pay $5000 for a rusted out, no engine, first gen Camaro that just wants to have fun and has no intention of trying to make a fast buck.

Tom (sYc) you can ban me from this board if you like but the holier than thou attitudes that prevail on this board would prompt me to say "No loss".

Bottom line is if you guys didn't think you could make a profit or at least break even, you wouldn't be doing it. I want you to know that this post is directed to a small and "elite" group of members of this board and not to the general membership or owners/moderators. The ones that find fault with my post know who they are and shall certainly respond with all sorts of insults and nonsensical retorts but when they crawl into their sheets, they will have someting to think about, which is the intent of this post.
To all a goodnight!

Re: Any 2002 ZL1's left to buy?
 

If that was an open post for anyone to answer I will say no I didn't ever have a 600 h.p. 6 speed car....mine was a 4 speed...several 4 speeds since they didn't like that much horsepower...I would pick food over cars any day...cars are expensive toys...don't think that's anyones fault...any new car depreciates...a lot...the'02 ZL1's may too...maybe they won't...no big deal...no need to get acid indigestion over these things. [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

Re: Any 2002 ZL1's left to buy?
 

"You guys are not furthering the hobby you are ruining it for the average guy that has to pay $5000 for a rusted out, no engine, first gen Camaro that just wants to have fun and has no intention of trying to make a fast buck."



Mighty powerful observation if I do say so!!

Re: Any 2002 ZL1's left to buy?
 

I bought one of the two Indy Pace Cars to come to Wa. in '93 for $24k, traded it in on a new Chev 3/4 truck in 2000 and rec'd $19k, It is still worth less than the $24k and has only 2100 miles. Bought the '70 Deuce for $29k which everybody thought was too much, sold it for less than that to have it sold a few months later for much more. I guess my point is that what ever happens will happen and it is not worth everybody getting worked up over. If there are guys on this site that can buy a car and flip it for a profit more power to them. I am in this hobby for the love of the cars and feel that if I can enjoy a car for 10 years and get my money back it has been good to me. We show and share our car at 15-20 shows a summer. We had our Z28 12 years and had hours of enjoyment and sold it at a little more than break even. I hate to see this thing become about "Show me the money"!! I would love to have a new ZL1, but I don't think I would look to make a lot of money off of it (as my past history shows). I would have to "drive it like I stole it" and just hope I could recover a portion of the cost later when I decided to part with it!! [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]Jim

Re: Any 2002 ZL1's left to buy?
 

IF you will go to the for sale section you will find there is a member that is already selling his 02 ZL1. For what he has in it, and my personal experience, sounds like he is not selling it for a profit. Here is your chance to buy one of these supercars. [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Then when you get done having fun with it, you could either sell it to you buddy, so he could have some fun with it, or you could sell it to some sucker for a profit. What would you do? [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/confused.gif[/img] If you sold it for a profit than you can take your other post back now and say your sorry. Or if you sold it to your buddy for a loss so he could to have fun with it also, you could prove your point and make everyone else an as#. But if it is out of the price range now what makes one think it will be more affordable in 5 years. If 50GGG's isn't affordable what makes 40GG's more affordable [remember we are talking about a car we are only suppose to have fun in and not make a profit on]especially when you can go buy a 5 to 9 grand Z28 mod it out, put better interior and stereo for under 10 GGG's.

As far as the old ones go, these cars were out of the general publics pocket book back then [remember we are still "just having fun" and not trying to make a profit], i believe over 7000 grand in 69, what makes you think they would be in the general publics pocket book range now. These cars that keep swapping hands are not rusted out no engine no tranny hunks of metal, but already restored, most back to original form, or orginal. If there restored then lets think what it cost to make orginal again. Well not exactly sure and maybe not even as much as what some would pay but it cost lots of money nonetheless.

Last, as far as value go [here again just to have fun and not for profit]remember when you could buy several pieces of gum in a gumball machine for a penny, now it is a quarter! Same with cars, then add time and restoration cost; you think that is cheap now days. Just think taking your car to a mechanic will cost around 50 to 60 dollars just to let them tell you what is wrong with it.

Hey I don't completly disagree; most these cars probably shouldn't bring in more than a 100 GGG's which is still out of the general publics pocket pock, [you can guess what I was going to type] and most would probably like to buy a new one for that price.

Products sell by Supply and Demand, supply high demand low price falls to the floor: Z28's=high supply demand low price cheap; ZL1(69 or 02) supply low demand high price just hit the roof and trying to break through.

Is this the fault of the hobbist or a law of supply and demand?

Just wait until the supply rises and the demand is low. [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Not to sound rude but we all know neither one will ever happen. The supply is set in stone, and I will always want one! There is your supply, and I am the demand, along with many others.

Nuff Said [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/frown.gif[/img] Now lets all show some love in here. [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Any 2002 ZL1's left to buy?
 

"Nuff said" ?

No way, I'm loving this one [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Any 2002 ZL1's left to buy?
 

I doubt a small cartel of car enthusiast could effect the price of muscle cars to qny great degree. Now. Get the Hunt brothers involved...(I've still got hundreds of pounds of almost worthless silver).

I doubt many people are buying these new ZL-1s with the expectation of taking anything BUT a financial bath unless they are willing to keep the car a long time. And that is still an iffy situation. I plan on leaving mine to my now 3 week old (but 10 weeks premature) grandson. Given what he is going to go through I figure he will have earned it.

Yeah, I know there are a lot of things that will probably be worth a lot more than an old catfish, but, this is the car I've always wanted and I hope he will appreciate it. If not, no big deal because I'm going to love the car. Went over to Matt's to see it today in fact!

Re: Any 2002 ZL1's left to buy?
 

These issues of class warfare keep bubbling under the veneer of this site. These issues have been around since the dawn of time, so its not surprising to find them on a site dedicated to what are now potentially six-figure collectibles.

It's sad, though, because its all relative. For every envious middle-class guy begrudging a billionaire, there's a lower-class guy envying the middle class guy's 3-car garage and "regular" old cars. And there's probably some poor downtrodden guy in Russia or China who's pissed off that we're all bent about rebodying a car when he's only seen them in old magazines he was given, and will probably never leave his parent's apartment, much less own a car of any sort in his life.

Sure its about the money, SSRS350, for everyone. But you and I are probably more affected by it than some of the wealthier folks on the board. I know for some of them, while they certainly don't like to piss money away, the money they gain or lose on the cars isn't significant-they make their money elsewhere. But mostly I find collectors who make very real sacrifices in their retirement plans, and their houses, to facilitate the cars they buy.

So how are the dealers/wholesalers/semi-professional curbstoners possibly more affected? Well, you brought up the money thing with the list of wholesale cars. The whole tone was "look at the bath these stupid people took on these cars". I know in my case, the longer I do cars for profit, the harder it is to enjoy and blow money on my personal cars. It's very difficult to separate the many cars you buy to turn a profit on from the "keepers". If you're like me, and I suspect most are, it becomes very difficult to sink money into a keeper when you know in the back of your mind that YOU'LL NEVER GET IT BACK. It's not greed so much is that it runs counter to everything you're geared to do in your professional career. I think its unfair to play the "money" card when I think it colors your views as much as the ones you're targeting with these comments. It's the whole POT/KETTLE/BLACK thing.

So are there rich egotistical jerks on this site? Probably. Are there dealer-types whose views are distorted by their profession, at least compared to the hobbyist guys? Yes! Me and several others. Are there angry misanthropes who hate everyone who has more cars/money/land/women? Always. But you'll find this mix of people everywhere.

I know I'm stirring the pot a bit, but could we eventually get back to the stuff that drew me to this site?-i.e. GEEK stuff like "I have 70 build sheets from Norwood-built '68 Camaros and I think that the CU code in box 35 signifies HD suspension WITH redline tires but WITHOUT tinted glass..."

After all, geekinees knows no class boundaries. People of all backgrounds think we're wierd.... [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: Any 2002 ZL1's left to buy?
 

i sell more used cars than new, i wholesale as many cars as i retail, and your point was? explain elite millionaires with money, last time i checked all of us men put our pants on the same way, see you at the reunion next year, you'll enjoy meeting us all! no pun intended!

Re: Any 2002 ZL1's left to buy?
 

Hey.....that was the 69th post!!

Re: Any 2002 ZL1's left to buy?
 

GRB,

Best of luck to your Grandson. I hope everything works out well for him. Have hope, it does get better. We had an 8 week premature little girl this year weighing just 3.5 pounds. She spent 5 weeks in the hospital before we got to bring her home. As I type this (9 months later) she is sitting in front of me on the floor happy as can be babbling away to herself [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] They are amazingly resilient little miracles!

Re: Any 2002 ZL1's left to buy?
 

Thanks for the encouragment Zedder. Unfortunately this little fellow has more problems than most premies to battle. I'd rather not go into specifics now but at least his problems are fixable. Nature is going to make him tough. His family will make him happy.

Re: Any 2002 ZL1's left to buy?
 

OK, heres the first test of the theory's.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...tem=1875069734

2002 Berger Hot Rod edition Camaro on Ebay, silver with red D91 style stripe. Let's all see what these things are worth in the "average guys" opinion.

Looks like it's from a dealer. Starting at 43,500 no reserve. What is list on this car.

Re: Any 2002 ZL1's left to buy?
 

All GMMG built cars are very special IMO,I wouldn't mind owning any of them regardless of Market value, but they are simply not all the same as the Phase III ZL1s.

Re: Any 2002 ZL1's left to buy?
 

My feelings exactly. I am sure even Matt Murphy would agree.

Re: Any 2002 ZL1's left to buy?
 

When you say phase III do you mean 427?

Re: Any 2002 ZL1's left to buy?
 

stage III , 427 all the way!

Re: Any 2002 ZL1's left to buy?
 

Kevin,

I'm sure it's been covered elsewhere, but what's the all in cost of a Phase III?

Jeff

Re: Any 2002 ZL1's left to buy?
 

between 23k-25k depending on line lock, roll cage, repaint is extra $7k .