Re: 1966 Yenko Stinger for sale
 

There are Baldwin-Motion cars and there are Motion cars. Two different things.

Re: 1966 Yenko Stinger for sale
 

I agree with Shor that some are misunderstanding the arrangement Don made with Jack. He essentially granted the right to sell these cars as Yenko Camaros. He provided the part & pieces to make them identicle to those that made a stop in PA., and profited from the sale of this right.
Furthermore, Jack Douglass was THE authorized dealer for Yenko cars in Chicago. Given the fact that he was authorized by Yenko to sell these cars,with all the Yenko trim, and, sold them as such, they became official Yenko Camaros.
Joe, by Yenko granting Douglass the right to do this, he sold Jack his "copyright" to "build" Yenko Camaros. Let's not forget, these were identical to the Yenko "built" in every material way. By selling Douglass the right to sell Yenko branded cars he agreed they would be sold as equal to the cars he sold to other Yenko dealers.
Again, I ask, was a Nickey Camaro built at Bill Thomas's shop in Anaheim NOT considered a Nickey Camaro, both by the public, and Nickey, back in '67 & '68? They had a business agreement, just like Yenko & Douglass. It seems pretty cut & dried tp ME, but, I understand there is room for reasonable people to disagree. BUT, to say that they are "copies", or merely run of the mill COPOS, seems to fly in the face of the facts.

Re: 1966 Yenko Stinger for sale
 

I wonder if Vince Emme has any info on this? Maybe these cars were recorded in some way? Has anyone tried to document one of these through him?

Re: 1966 Yenko Stinger for sale
 

Shor...That is a great question for Brian. Shor made a earlier comment,"Jack would pay Don 400 per car and Don would send him the stripe kits, window stickers, emblems etc." I would think that the Window Sticker from Yenko would mean alot. I haven't seen one of them for a Douglas car but I don't know how you could argue with a Yenko Window Sticker if they exist. I don't own one of these so I am sitting back enjoying the discussion.

Re: 1966 Yenko Stinger for sale
 

I don't see how there can be any inconsistancy here.I've asked questions and they have been answered.9561 is a copo,not a Yenko,not a Douglass,not a Courtesy,not a Scuncio it was a order # for a 427 camaro from GM in 1968-69.To assign a paticular dealer to that number doesn't hold weight.Fact,Don Yenko proffited from the sale of 9561 copo camaros sold at Jack Douglass Chevrolet.Fact,Don Yenko gave legal right in accepting financial commission to have his name and reputation placed on these copos.Fact,Don Yenko approved the sale and advertisement of the cars to be sold as yenkos.Fact, people purchasing these cars as such were assumably purchasing these cars as Yenkos.You can't dispute these cars as being nothing else but a Yenko and the original purchasers will probably tell you the same.Call it what you want Yenko,Jack Douglass Yenko,converted Yenko its got Dons blessing(financially)its a Yenko.

Re: 1966 Yenko Stinger for sale
 

Was their ever a quote from Don Yenko while he was alive as to the Douglas cars or cars like them? What did he consider them as?

Re: 1966 Yenko Stinger for sale
 

Quote:
"Joe and Marlin, Of course the NICB comes back as Douglass Chevrolet. These cars were ordered from Douglass, invoiced to Douglass and sold new from Douglass. These cars never made a trip to Cannonsburg. This is not in question."

So, based on the paragraph above, how is it a Yenko compared to cars with NICB's from Yenko? Stripes, tach's, and emblems do not make a Yenko, whether it's on a COPO car or not.

The motion situation is related. Motion performance allowed you, or your dealer, to use his name, design, r&d, etc... when you bought his parts. Is the Corvette in Harrisburg, PA with the all the parts on it a Motion car? Joel says no. I think the Douglas situation is very similar to the non-'Baldwin' Motion cars - they are not real Motion cars in the financial sense of the word, and I think most people who are looking to buy a Yenko would pay more for a car with an NICB from 13-898.

Are you suggesting that we start calling our cars by their selling dealer-Yenko? We don't refer to all of the other Chicago dealers as Fencl-Tufo Yenko, Sorenson Yenko, Mancuso Yenko, etc... We call them Yenko's because that is who ordered them from GM, and that is where they came from. Should we call some of the '67 Yenko Camaros "Harrell-Yenko's" since Harrell did the labor on them? I don't know, possibly. We refer to some of the Deuces as Hurst cars since Hurst did the labor, but the NICB is still Yenko.

Re: 1966 Yenko Stinger for sale
 

I would like to clearify some of the information as it was told to me by Jack Douglass himself. I was not there either and if Jack says that I have not represented his story accurately then he is of course correct.

I would also take this opportunity to apologize to Jack and his family, for first off discussing him in the third person and allowing us to question his word and integrity here on this site.

He has long ago asked me to drop the topic. I just can't allow myself to do so.

It is no wonder why Jack Douglass and people like Joel Rosen don't want to have anything to do with "enthusiasts" when all we do is question their integrity.

There is a difference between opinion and fact and that is what is getting mixed up here.

The fact is that Don Yenko Founder of Yenko Sports Cars Inc. defined by application that which was a Yenko Super Camaro.

He and Jack had a verbal contract for Jack to act as the exclusive dealer for Yenko Sports Cars ,Inc. in Chicago,IL Metro Area.

Jack Douglass was an avid roadracer. He met both Don Yenko and Dona Mae while in pursuit of one of his greatest passions,roadracing. He ran with this crowd(and ran hard) and has many interesting stories, save for another thread.

Don made Jack aware of the new Super Camaros for the 1969 model year and lead Jack to believe ,as Don did with most other dealers that the only way to purchase one of the L72 Iron block Camaros was directly through him.

Jack had no reason to doubt him as he was well aware of Don's work with the Stinger and the 1967 and 1968 Camaros and there was no information provided to the dealers by GM to order the Super Camaros direct.

Jack agreed to take two truck loads of Yenko Cars to include Novas, Chevelles and Camaros. This is what was required to secure the State of Illinois as the franchised territory of Yenko Sports Cars Inc., for Jack Douglass Chevrolet,Inc.

It has been widly reported that Don Yenko had all pertinent paperwork removed from the cars prior to having them shipped to his dealers in the network. (Why?)

Jack states that the arival of the first truck load was a big deal. Everyone from all departments of the dealership came out to see the transporter load of Yenkos unloaded.

Jack states that he found Shipping Invoices "Shipper" in two of the Camaros from the initial transporter load.

These Shippers included the COPO information 9737 and 9561. Jack took this info and called his Zone Office to see if he could order the cars direct with the special codes.

The Zone replied that they were not familiar with the special orders and that they would contact GM headquarters.

GM Detroit called Jack back and told him that he could indeed order these special COPO cars direct.

Jack felt that Don Yenko had made a major missrepresentation and a breech of their contract, as now any dealer "in the know" could order the cars direct and sell them at a price advantage over the SYC cars. Case in point Berger Chevrolet.

Jack placed an order for his own cars without consulting Don Yenko. Jack used the Yenko Blue print(the shipping invoice) to place his order. He also added a few interesting colors as well as additional equipment.

Prior to this shippment ever arriving, Don discovered that Douglass had circumvented his system and as was stated called Jack and not only threatened physical harm but also legal action. Jack explained his position and that he supported the sYc concept which was to include a Nation wide marketing campaign. This Campaign included drag race sponsorship as well as traditional "print" advertsing.

This is when and where Jack and Don agreed to maintain their Business relationship and for Jack to still remain the exclusive Chicago/Illinois dealer for Yenko Sports Cars Inc.

This agreement was stuck prior to the Douglass Ordered Cars ever hitting the ground. Part of the arrangement was that Jack would not discuss the order procedures with any other dealers.

Jack also remembers a conversation with Dale Berger as the Berger COPO order was built/initiated just ahead of the Douglass order since Douglass had COPOs on the ground and Berger did not.

Berger Did not support the Yenko Dealer Network and justifiably figured that his own Hi-performance market would support the sale of his COPOs while maintaing a price advantage over the sYc dealer network.(this info was provided to me by Jack Douglass).

It seems that the Douglass situation caused Don Yenko and GM to want to cover their tracks with potential Chevy Dealer Franchise infringement headaches as well.

The last bach of Camaros did not sell well for Jack or most of the other Dealers. This per Jack Douglass was primarily due to the fact that insurance for the L72-427 Super Cars became virtually either not affordable or nonexistant in the Chicago Metro area.

Jack remembers that he ended up taking at least a few of His Douglass Yenkos to the local auctions and selling them off to other dealers in Chicago or around the country.

This is not my story, it is Jacks story. It is supported by Tom Dumass former General Manager, an assistant service manager, his son John and many of my local fellow enthusiasts who purchased, drooled over, or raced a Yenko Camaro from Douglass Chevrolet.

The legend and legacy of the Late Great Don Yenko was perpetuated as well as enhanced by Jack Doulglass. (IMO)

Re: 1966 Yenko Stinger for sale
 

Seems to me that emotions & opinions sway some more than the simple FACTS of the situation that existed in 1969. The temptation to rewrite history is great to protect the integrity of the Cannonsberg Yenkos. The undisputed truth of the situation back "in the day", was that:

Don Yenko agreed that Jack Douglass could sell the Copo cars he striped in Hinsdale as official Yenko cars. He set a high price for his authorization, probably equal to what he would have made selling cars shipped to him.

Douglass, as the official, authorized Yenko dealer, sold them to the buying public as Yenkos.

They were, at that time, [and now] Yenko cars.

Whether they are worth more or less than the other Yenkos, only time will tell. That's for any individual, properly informed buyer to determine.
The comparison to Baldwin Motion or Motion prepped cars doesn't apply directly. I'm still waiting for someone to weigh in on the comparison of the Nickey/Bill Thomas similarity to the Yenko/Douglass relationship.

Re: 1966 Yenko Stinger for sale
 

Mike,
Yes I agree with the Nicky/Thomas scenario, as it is the most similar to this Situation. The Baldwin /Motion, Joel Rosen does not apply IMO.

Tom,
A reply to your question regarding the over the Counter Yenko Stinger Kits. Yes those are 100% Yenko Stinger over the counter kit cars. Yes, they are Yenkos.

No ,they do not have the benefit of having been torn down and blue printed, ordered and invoiced by Yenko Chevrolet but they are by definition (SCCA Sports Car Club of America) a Yenko.

It just happens that it was built by "Joe Roadracer" not
Warren Dernasheck at Yenko Chevrolet, or Dickie Harrell in at his shop,in New Mexico!

They are a unique part of the Yenko Legacy.

The individual who purchased only the parts and not the Yenko VIN does not have a Yenko Stinger.

This also is not a similar situation to the Douglass one, but a very good topic as well.

Marlin,
While our opinions are at different ends of the spectrum on this issue, I would expect that you could understand the use of Douglass Yenko to identify a unique situation in Super Car History.

The simple reason we do not use the similar identifier with other dealers is that Jack Douglass was the only Dealer in the network with this special/unique arrangement.

No one else had it to the best of my knowledge and research.

Re: 1966 Yenko Stinger for sale
 

Mike you hit the nail right in the head.Call it what it is Nickey/Thomas---Nickey , Baldwin Motion---Motionconverted , Yenko---Douglass Yenko

Re: 1966 Yenko Stinger for sale
 

Looking at the Yenko Sportscars,Inc.ad that says "Meet The Mean Ones!"
It lists al the different states and the Names of all those dealers in the Yenko network.I'm sure everyone has seen this.
How are those cars referred to today?
Are they identified as Yenkos,or Francis/Yenkos as in from that Missouri dealership?
Were they too paying Don $400.00 for his striping kits?
How was Douglass different from them?

Re: 1966 Yenko Stinger for sale
 

Stefano;
A well written documentary, but I don't see any proof of this 'relationship'.

Mike;
Likewise, I don't see what backs up the 'undisputed truth'.

We have a copy of the sales agreement between Josh Darden, the owner of Colonial Chev., and Don Yenko. Evidently, when Yenko entered into a deal with one of his participating dealers, it was put into writing. Until I see the Douglas situation in writing, I will have difficulty believing the verbal conversations. I'm not downing Douglas and his employees etc... but we all know that it is hard to remember all this stuff from 30 years ago. Don claimed 500 Yenko Camaros in his interview in '87 remember?

I obviously have a different opinion on this, based primarily on the fact that I don't place a lot of weight on verbal recollections. In my mind, if your Motion stripes/parts, Yenko stripes/emblems, or Stinger stuff came in the mail - you have a mail order car, not the real deal [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/confused.gif[/img]

Re: 1966 Yenko Stinger for sale
 

As I said in my post I am giving my opinion. I am not trying to make any rules new or old and not implying any opinion on market value. Whichever one the market determines is of higher value is fine with me and does not matter as far as the history of the cars. I am more interested in the history of the cars but of course I do watch the market also. Any hi performance car is a great piece of automotive history no matter what dealer sold it.
My opinion on the Motion cars -- if it did not go through Baldwin Auto Sales it is not a Baldwin/Motion car. It is a Motion Performance car. I see the Nickey/Thomas cars as a different situation. The original adds beginning in late 1966 state that Nickey and Thomas were both building 427 Camaros. So you have the Nickey/Thomas relationship clearly stated in the original ads. There are ads for 1967 427 Dana/Yenko Camaros so there was some type of relationship with Dana but unfortunately not much is known about these 67 Yenkos as yet. The 1969 Yenko documents state that the cars were built by "Yenko Sports Cars Inc. The leading producer of Hi Performance Chevrolet Based Vehicles." If Douglas made his own Yenko ID kit it would have been an illegal copy but they reached an agreement and Douglas made a legal copy. Usually in the collector world a copy is a copy. Authorized or not it is never the same as an original produced by the original creator. The Douglas story is interesting. I am giving my opinions on a something that happened many years ago and I was not there and do not wish to make Mr. Douglas feel he or his cars are being talked about in a negative way.

Re: 1966 Yenko Stinger for sale
 

The big difference lies right under your nose. Douglass used Yenko's ordering procedure and enhanced it with options Yenko did not use. Yenko was the father of the 9561 and 9737 COPO Camaros, Chevelles and COPO LT/1 Novas along with many other inovations and forward thinking, not Douglass. Yenko was to have the exclusive rights to the 427 Camaro. What happened that the door was opened for other dealers to lift his hard work? You might ask Jim Maddison. Byrnes Brothers was an authorized Yenko dealer and also sold their version of a stripper COPO Camaro. Most of the major players like Berger, Nickey/Thomas, Motion, Harrell etc benifited from Yenko's understanding of the GM COPO system. The Nickey/Thomas question seams easy to me. These cars were advertised that way. The Douglass/Yenko cars were not. Don't ask don't tell seems to be the word on the Douglass cars. Surely a customer would be unaware that his car had no Canonsburg history. Most might not even care, but the facts is they don't. 30+ years ago nobody would expect the COPO Camaros to be worth anything. Having a Douglass car with all the additinal gingerbread is a cool car. Why should it not be considered a Douglass car period. I would not want a car with Yenko badging if it was not from Canonsburg. If Douglass was the man with the ideas we would all be fooled into thinking our Yenko/Douglass cars are the same as a real Douglass car. Its all just opinions, and the Douglass cars are very unique, but not Yenko's. The 400 dollar figure seems way to high to me. Is that a fact? Are there people out there putting Yenko stripes on Douglass cars to enhance their value today? Has anyone taken a Yenko/SC Canonsburg car and made it into a Douglass? Curious...BKH

Re: 1966 Yenko Stinger for sale
 

Rick;
In my opinion, it goes back to the NICB info. If you buy a car that is represented as a Baldwin-Motion, and then you get the NICB info and it says Reedman Chev, do you not turn around and try to get your money back? Why? Because you would want a car that was sold new at Baldwin and sent to Motion.

In my mind, it's the same with a Yenko car. If my Yenko was sold out of Nankivell, I expect the car to be dealer txfr'd from Yenko Chev. Otherwise, without paperwork to back up a deal between Nankivell and Yenko, I don't have a Yenko car.

Re: 1966 Yenko Stinger for sale
 

Rick,
Yes, they were all paying a Royalty or Fee on the sale of each of those cars to Yenko Sports Cars, Inc. It was built into the price of the Super Car. It was a substantial premium and I would suspect that Don did everything he could to protect this Royalty or Fee.

The Douglass Situation is unique,... repeat unique. He was the only dealer in the Network which ordered the COPOs direct and then sold them to the public as Yenkos.

While the Fee situation may help some rationalize whether the cars are Yenkos or not, I feel it only goes to support the arrangement between Yenko/Douglass.

The conumer and and ultimate purchaser of the Douglass Yenko knew nothing of this arrangement and in turn it had no bearing on their purchase decision.

JoeC,
To say that the Douglass Yenkos are similar to ,or the same as a home built replica out of someones garage is well......(no further reply on that comment).

Re: 1966 Yenko Stinger for sale
 

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>
JoeC,
To say that the Douglass Yenkos are similar to ,or the same as a home built replica out of someones garage is well......(no further reply on that comment).


<hr></blockquote>

Did I say that? Where do you see that?
[img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/confused.gif[/img]

Re: 1966 Yenko Stinger for sale
 

Marlin you and I know thats not always the case.When I worked at a dealer in Ambridge Pa. at least 2 to 3 times a week I did what was known as a dealer trade.Sometimes taking a car picking up one,picking up a car paying with a check,picking up a car and delivering two to numerous dealers in Western Pa..I myself did this for that dealer for 2 years.Just from that dealer alone thats over 200 cars not counting what somebody else traded to us using their people.I know this if I bought a Yenko from Jack Douglass back in 69 or bought one awhile ago thinking it was and paid extra for one I'd Have my retained attorney putting in overtime.

Re: 1966 Yenko Stinger for sale
 

As far as written agreements, Douglass DID have the written contract to be the Yenko dealer for all of Chicagoland. In the Yenko archives, Tom uncovered a memo which pointed out the unique agreement he had with Jack Douglass. I believe it was posted the last time this subject was discussed.
As far as memories being fuzzy, I ask you, would any of the Yenko purists question Don's current statements IF he were here to share them? I think not.
I have discussed these details with Jack for over four years, long before any controversy arose, and, the story has never changed.
In the end, as I said before, reasonable people should be able to disagree, yet, appreciate that the other side has validity as well. We should have all learned by now that it is dangerous to speak in absolutes when it comes to what was done back then.

Re: 1966 Yenko Stinger for sale
 

Brian H.
Now I too am curious how you will restore shors car.With or without the Yenko signature stripes/emblems/Headrests?

Copolocater
I am confused on two things you stated.Don't these statements contradict eachother?

At 10:00 AM:
"Call it what you want,Yenko,Jack Douglass Yenko,converted Yenko,it's got Dons blessing (financially) its a Yenko."

Then at 1:01 PM:
"I know this,if I bought a Yenko from Jack Douglass back in 69 or bought one a while ago thinking it was and paid extra for one,I'd have my retained attorney putting in overtime."
I am just trying to understand what is intended here.

While I was recently talking to Mr.Ed,he told me:"Jack Douglass was a good business man.He found a way to work around the Middleman,and Capitalize on it,or at the very least tried to."

Re: 1966 Yenko Stinger for sale
 

Brian,
Jack Douglass has never taken any credit and fully stated that the sYc concept belonged to Don Yenko. Jack also never had the intent to sell them as anything other than Yenkos.

What Don Did, with GMs support however, did boarder on infringing GM's Parts,Sales and Service Agremeement with their other dealers. That is why a dealer who discovered the program was allowed to order direct.

If he had not made the agreement, which included more than the stripes and badges,then he would not have sold them to the public as Yenkos and we would not be having this discussion.

As a restorer, I would have thought that you could appreciate and understand why someone would put a Super Car back to the way it was when delivered to the Customer.

No, I have not put the stripes, which were on my car when it was sold to the public ,as they had been removed. My Douglass Yenko was repainted without stripes and badges because Vince Emee had thought it was a Berger COPO and hence a D90 stripe was added, the Yenko Emblem holes were filled and a Berger Emblem was screwed to the tail panel.

If my car had not been sold with the Stripes, it would still be a Yenko and If I were to restore it under that circumstance,I would do so without the stripes.

I installed Stripes on Shor's Douglass Yenko because my research indicated that that was how the Camaro was sold to the public. I did prefer how it looked without them, however.

Marlin,
There was no paperwork/formal sales agreement between Douglass and Yenko and it has not been found to be the common practice. Acually the situation you mention happens to be unique,to the best of my knowledge.

Authorizing someone to do something encompasses alowing that entity to continue to do so. Jack called his order in either late January early February. Do you think that if he and Don were at odds there would not have been at least one single other Yenko Dealer in Chicago or the state of Illinois during this time frame?

JoeC,
I was not quoting you but paraphrasing and yes that is how I read your statements. I do repect your opinion and those of the membership however warped they may be [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif[/img] "Just Kidding"

Stefano

Re: 1966 Yenko Stinger for sale
 

Verbatim, dated September 19, 1969:

"It should be pointed out that Yenko Sportscars did not have any type of exclusive COPO and that many other dealers have purchased cars similar to the cars purchased by Yenko Sportscars. One Yenko dealer, however (Jack Douglas in Hinsdale, Illinois), after making a direct factory purchase of 22 vehicles identical to those sold him previously by Yenko Sportscars, found it advantageous to purchase YENKO emblems and trim to enhance retailing the merchandise."

INSERT OPINION HERE: Personally speaking, I feel the Douglass-Yenko cars ARE different than those that went through Canonsburg. Don had a distinct vision of what his Camaros were to be, and ordered them accordingly. Obviously, Jack Douglass had a different vision in mind, and ordered his cars accordingly, but felt, according to the document above, that a set of Yenko stripes/emblems would help sales. All of the other Yenko cars that went to other dealers (and Jack's first batch of COPOs) first passed through Canonsburg, but originated in Don's mind. Jack simply eliminated the middle man, and ordered them himself. Do I fault him for that? Not in the least, as he was running a business, the same as any other dealer, and I do agree with his choice of chambered exhaust. I also don't feel this is a question of his integrity. Let the flames begin!

Re: 1966 Yenko Stinger for sale
 

Because of the differance of professional opinions on this site it could be missunderstood by future investors that all Douglass copos are not Yenkos.Those who bought for an investment bought under the premise that they bought a true Yenko.Those who bought new that still might retain their original car bought the same way.I am currently trying to purchase one of the Douglass cars, and was under the same premise, as a investment.If the SYC registry (with the paperwork they have)won't register these cars as yenkos then Joe Public won't take a chance on investing either. Tom and Rob can you share any docs you might have on the Douglass deal maybe then we can finally sort this out.

Re: 1966 Yenko Stinger for sale
 

So you are the one who started all of this [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: 1966 Yenko Stinger for sale
 

Tim;
I was referring to a 'sales agreement' which defined the geographic territory that Colonial had the rights to be the exclusive Yenko SportsCars dealer. This agreement didn't preclude Colonial from dealer transferring cars like you did at your dealership. I only reference this document as an example of how Don used written agreements under these types of circumstances. I believe Mike is referring to a similar 'sales' situation, whereby Douglas had the exclusive rights to sell sYc products in Chicago for 1969.

I don't think that these sales agreements can be assumed to include the authorization to install stripes/emblems etc... Wouldn't that require an additional written agreement?

If Jack and Don had this deal going, I would need to see it in writing, that's all.

Re: 1966 Yenko Stinger for sale
 

Come on you guys, I am not getting anything done at work today!!! [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Re: 1966 Yenko Stinger for sale
 

I'll add one more thought. Rob's quote indicates the UNIQUE relationship between the two dealerships. Had Jack bought just the the "stripes and trim" for about 50 bucks back then, it would be one thing. The additional fee charged by Yenko for the right to market them, WITH HIS APPROVAL, as Yenkos makes all the difference in the world.
As far as advertising being a determining factor in a marketing agreement, Douglass WAS listed in the Yenko ads as his authorized dealer. These three facts together are pretty compelling.
Yes, the cars are different, but, that doesn't make them any less of an official, authorized to sell it to the public, Yenko Camaro.

Re: 1966 Yenko Stinger for sale
 

Marlin I understood but when you mention Motion some of the cars MSO's would not go back to Baldwin because a couple were dealer traded.They were sold new by Baldwin but were dealer exchanged because of customer preferance in which the prefered car wasn't lot available. [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Re: 1966 Yenko Stinger for sale
 

Tim:

Dad's in Indy today, and I can't even BEGIN to understand his filing system, but I did manage to find article that Don wrote that dealt with Douglass, which I posted above verbatim. As far as I know, that is all we have on the Yenko/Douglass relationship, but like I said, the paperwork is dad's department.

Stefano:

More of my thoughts here, so feel free to disregard them, as most do, but here goes! Our concern arose with the listing on the Mecum site: "1 of 2 white Yenkos". No other info given, unlike your other cars. Now, no big deal, just that we got an email about there being a white '69 Yenko, which would get the attention of anyone who knows "the basics" of the Yenkos, and the fact that Don ordered 6 colors on the '69 Camaros. Much to my surprise, not everyone reads this board (what a shame!), so not everyone is aware of the Douglass/Yenko relationship. Again, this is a unique situation with these cars, and in my opinion, can't be described simply as "Yenko Camaros".

Again, just my $.02...ok, maybe closer to $.01!

Re: 1966 Yenko Stinger for sale
 

Tim,
The verified direct Order Yenkos sold from Douglass Chevrolet carry a "Yenko" Certificate from the Copo Connection, which we all know and recognize as one of the most established and leading authorities on the Subject.

Rob,
Thanks for sharing, but if that is all the estate document says, my opinion is that you are reading in between the lines. You certainly have more info than I.

Don's statement proves that Jack Douglass sold his direct order COPOs as Yenkos with Don's Knowledge.

The Yenko Statement 100% Supports Jack Douglass' statements. It does not say that he tried to market them and failed and then installed stripes after the fact. Jack agreed to the increase in marketablity from day one.

I would venture to say that if more other dealers had figured out how to order the COPOs exactly like Yenko, they certainly would have ordered Direct and I would furthur venture to say that no one else would have sold them as Yenkos to the public at Yenko premium prices.

Brian,
We are having a important discussion regarding the history of how these cars were delivered to the consumer when new.

Why would any one want to take a Canonsberg Yenko and represent it as a Douglass Yenko? Even if someone were to try and raise the marketability of their Yenko by doing so we would have the records to prove otherwise.

Remember Jack Douglass also sold Canonsberg Yenkos as well and side by side with his direct order.

Re: 1966 Yenko Stinger for sale
 

Thanks Rob .Is there any way can we get a list of Yenko/Douglass vins compared to DouglassYenko vins at least there'll be a distinctsion!! [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Re: 1966 Yenko Stinger for sale
 

Mike;
I'm not sure that you can say that $400 indicates an authorized arrangement, and $XX does not. If Don could get $400 out of Jack for the stripes, he would charge it. Why would Jack pay $400? If he didn't, he would be stuck with a bunch of COPO cars in a market where he was the exclusive dealer of sYc cars - not a good position to be in.

Yes, the cars are significantly different. Until some compelling paperwork shows up to the contrary, I believe that Yenko sold Yenko Camaro's, and Douglas sold COPO Camaros that were copies of Yenko's.

Re: 1966 Yenko Stinger for sale
 

This falls into the same catagory as the corvairs. After the origional 100, 66's then all other 66's are considered kit cars. Even though the kits were bought through Don with his blessing and him making money on them they are still kit cars and will not bring the price of an origional. After all wasn't this thread about Stingers????? [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

Re: 1966 Yenko Stinger for sale
 

Stefano;
We know that Ed gives Cert's on the Douglas cars, what do they say - I've never seen a cert. on of them. I know that Vince Emme, also a noted authority, will not give a cert. on a Douglas car.

So, we are not the first, or only, guys to respectfully disagree on the Douglas situation.

Re: 1966 Yenko Stinger for sale
 

I'm still not clear on whether or not there was also a Yenko Window Sticker included with the stripes and emblems that Douglas bought from Yenko. Are there any examples out there ?

Re: 1966 Yenko Stinger for sale
 

Rob,
I understand and the Data is not yet complete. All the info and Documentation about my car is with Mecum auction.

There is no intent to deceive, as anyone who would call Dana or me will be given complete and accurate information, to the best of our ability. I have been called on numerous occasions inquiring about my car and have always properly disclosed its pedigree.

The Mecum family were Chevrolet Dealers at the same time as Jack Douglass and Dana who also owns the Auction as well as the Bloomington Gold Corvette venue is one of the most knowledgable Muscle Car individuals that I have ever met.

I purchased my first Douglass Yenko from his private collection. He is well versed in the Douglass ordered Yenkos and knows as much as anyone if not more, as Jack Douglass also worked for Dana Mecum.

Dana has always considered the Douglass COPOs as Yenkos just direct ordered through Douglass Chevrolet.

I appreciate all that you and you family have done for Super Cars in general and welcome this forum to discuss, learn and share info about these Great Cars.

I was taken by complete surprise regarding Tom's comments as he had never ,to my recollection said anything regarding the situation. I felt that I was being accused of missrepresentation which is very serious in my business if not all busnisses.

My family has held a dealer licence for over 20 years without a single formal complaint against it along with many very satified customers and friends.

Re: 1966 Yenko Stinger for sale
 

Man, I was wondering how long Lillard could be quiet! Looks like not long! [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Stupid question time: did any of the Douglass cars carry stripes from the factory? If so, am I to assume that these stripes were removed to add the Yenko stripes?

Re: 1966 Yenko Stinger for sale
 

Marlin,
With all due respect to Vince he did not know or fully understand the Douglass Yenko situation. I know of two Douglass Yenko Camaros that he verbally verified as Berger Double COPO Camaros.

How would he be able to prove or disprove something he has no information about.

Verifiing Yenkos off of service or inventory sheets is a different situation.

This is in no way meant to discredit Mr.Emme or his knowledge regarding Don Yenko and the Cannonsberg COPOs.

Maurice,
Your question as well as many of the others have to do primarilly with value. A Yenko Stinger with a vin no matter whether Don installed it or a consumer ,is a vaild car to compete in the sactioning body SCCA racing, so by definition it is a Yenko Stinger.

The value of the Super Cars is something that I have not addressed at all as it is not relevant to the discusssion, IMO.

Charley,
No, I have not seen an original Yenko Window sticker for the Douglass Yenkos.

Re: 1966 Yenko Stinger for sale
 

Rob,
I have seen no pictoral Documentation and Jack is confident that the cars were delivered without stripes other than the possibility of having the X11 pinstripes which he would have removed prior to the installation of the Yenko Stripe Kit, much like Yenko could have done on his Cannonsberg X11 code cars.