Re: December feature car ...... COPO PETE's Nova
 

Pete;
Didn't this COPO Nova run a 12.99 @108 (?) with the B.F.G - Drag Radials, still through the stock exhaust?
M

Re: December feature car ...... COPO PETE's Nova
 

Next question ???

Anyone remember / know what class the LT-1 Nova was in - - E-Stock ??

Re: December feature car ...... COPO PETE's Nova
 

Marlin....12.97 @ 106.24 on the drag radials, through dual stock, single crossover exhaust! This car has never been restored,so the body mounts are weak and springs are wore out. Once we restore this thing, I'm thinking 12.8 maybe a 12.7 on poly's, we'll see. Did the Yenko's come with a hurst shifter? I though I read on a post around here that they did and were supposidly installed at the factory????
Peter

Re: December feature car ...... COPO PETE's Nova
 

Casey:

Hopefully Marlin will chime in with the answer...but, what class were the W-31s in? Also, what was the time that you laid down recently in yours?

Re: December feature car ...... COPO PETE's Nova
 

What class were the W31's in.....they did'nt have any!!!!!!!!! https://www.yenko.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/laugh.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/laugh.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/laugh.gif
Peter

Re: December feature car ...... COPO PETE's Nova
 

Pete, Does your Nova have the Hurst Shifter? According to my research, Chevy was TIGHT with the Hurst Shifters but Yenko did get them to install them in the Deuce. No Novas or Chevelles got a Hurst from the factory (except Deuce) and Camaro only got them from 69 to 71. Chevy used the Muncie frame mount shifter or the ITM (Inland Tool & Manufacturing) shifter. The ITM looks a lot like a round handle Hurst shifter. As a matter of fact, the round handle Hurst looks more like an ITM shifter then the after market Comp Plus Hurst with the bolt on flat stock shift arm. Makes me wonder if ITM really made the round handle Hurst shifters and just put the Hurst name on them.

Re: December feature car ...... COPO PETE's Nova
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="">quote:</font><HR>...but, what class were the W-31s in? Also, what was the time that you laid down recently in yours? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

W-31's were typically F/Stockers. It was a fine line between F/S and E/S .......

I got a 12.997 @ 104.81 with a 1.93 short time.

Re: December feature car ...... COPO PETE's Nova
 

Casey;
The Yenko Deuce Novas were never officially classified to my knowledge. Although several of the Yenko Deuce brochures are footnoted with ' NHRA Classification applied for', several people who tried to race their Deuces were disqualified because the track was never made aware of the factory LT1/Nova combination. One owner repeatedly requested the verification from Don, never received any response, and promptly removed the YENKO decal from the quarterpanel. It this owner had known the the emblems were attached to the car with double sided tape, he said they would have been off too.

The only car that possibly got classified, (in '71?), was the Central Chev. Deuce that the late Doug Olsen uncovered at Charlie Gilchrist's. I have not been able to receive a photo of this car after countless attempts, to determine what class was on the window. BKH has one though, and might be able to see some letters on the window.

Another original owner who currently runs an F/SA '68 Camaro in New Jersey, felt that the Deuce would have been an E-Stock car. I don't know how he surmised that, but he would definitely know better than I!!
M

Re: December feature car ...... COPO PETE's Nova
 

Well, here's what we've got.

First off, we have letters to and from Walt Mentzner of the NAAR (National Association Automobile Racing), concerning classifying the Deuce for their races. This was around April-May of 1971. In the NAAR, the Deuce was classified as "F/Stock".

We also have a page of hand written notes (looks like Don's writing) with specs relating to the Deuce's engine (just as carb #, valve diameters, head numbers, cam changes, etc.), along Chevrolet shipping weight (3,098) and how much "jobber net" on each car ($58.41). At the top of this page, it has (NHRA Superstock) written, then Walt Mentzner and his phone number written below that [Note: Mentzner was with the NAAR, as stated above]. Directly below that is written F Stock - Mustangs - 11.6. Then, the rest of the page contains notes about the car/engine.

Then, we have a copy of a letter to Wally Parks and the NHRA urging him to classify the Deuce (a copy was also sent to Vince Piggins). This was also around April of '71.

I even checked the NHRA website which has all the classifications for the cars (or at least I assume it's all of them) and the highest horsepower Nova they have listed is the 350/300hp model.

So far I haven't found anything FROM the NHRA back to Don confirming a classification for the Deuce. But, I'm still looking! https://www.yenko.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/smile.gif

[Edited by Chevy454 (12-06-2001 at 10:10 AM).]

Re: December feature car ...... COPO PETE's Nova
 

Good stuff Rob, maybe I could get a copy?? I had heard through the vine that the Deuce was not actually submitted by Don to be classified until late '70 early '71, so the dates on your correspondence does not surprise me. I had checked the NHRA site before, and unfortunately found the same info on the Novas. The vintage photo of the Citrus deuce, aka 'Draggin Deuce', does not appear to have a class on the window.
M

Re: December feature car ...... COPO PETE's Nova
 

Marlin,I recall thr photo but don't remember seeing a class on the window.If I remember correctly it was a pass/rear shot.I'll check my records and see what I find out.


Steve

Re: December feature car ...... COPO PETE's Nova
 

The original owner was a stickler for keeping records. The car originally came with a muncie shifter. Car was purshased Oct. 2 1970, and on Oct 13 1970, I have the bill from a speed shop where he purshased a Hurst shifter and installed it. That's interesting that this car came with the Muncie shifter and the Yenko's got the Hurst. I was thinking this had to do somthing with the order form and was also why the Yenko's came with M21 and the Canadian COPO's got the M20.
Marlin is correct, Central did originally order 10 of these cars but for some reason, Chev would only ship two. Original salesman confirms this, but does not know why!
Peter

Re: December feature car ...... COPO PETE's Nova
 

Pete, Does your Nova have the rear sway bar? I wonder if the Hurst has something to do with Yenko's 9737 COPO number.

Re: December feature car ...... COPO PETE's Nova
 

Interesting stuff guys !!!

The 3412 is kinda interesting for my car too. Mine weighed in at 3636 in Stanton, with my 165# lard-ass in the seat. That puts the car at right around 3471. Not bad ........ https://www.yenko.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/smile.gif

Re: December feature car ...... COPO PETE's Nova
 

Joe: Yes the car came with and still has the rear sway bar.
Peter
Also the number on my GM micro film shows 9010 BE and 9737AA. Is there a different version of the 9737 as in 9737BA? or something like that???

[Edited by COPO PETE (12-06-2001 at 02:21 PM).]

Re: December feature car ...... COPO PETE's Nova
 

Pete;
I will check my copy of Yenko's order form to GM for the Yenko Deuces, he listed both COPO's on the form but I don't remember if he listed the suffix letters.
M

Re: December feature car ...... COPO PETE's Nova
 

Marlin,all I have on that photo is car #134 and I believe a AHRA decal on the rear Qtr.Sorry no help on the class.


Steve

Re: December feature car ...... COPO PETE's Nova
 

OK, I did some snooping around on the NHRA website (just for kicks) and here is what I found. [Note: the info below is for STOCK classifications]

For the Nova, the highest factory HP 350 they have listed is the 300hp, and the NHRA factored it at 290hp, and 11.09 pounds per horsepower. They did list the Z/28 Camaro, which had the identical engine as the COPO Novas, and it was rated at 355hp (360 factory hp) and 9.41/9.57 (4-speed and auto) pounds per horsepower. The Corvette incidently came with a 355hp factored from the NHRA (370hp from the factory) and an 8.89 pounds per horsepower factor. But, they also listed a 350 Corvette with a factory 350hp rating that carried an NHRA factored 370hp, and an 8.65 pounds per horsepower.

So, if you take the numbersfrom the 300hp/350 Nova, and multiply them you get 3213 pounds. Then, if you divide that number by the NHRA factored HP for the LT-1 (355) you get 9.05 pounds per horsepower.

I checked the Olds for Casey while I was there, and here is what it showed. The F-85 carried a 350/325hp rating from the factory, and also had the same 325hp rating from the NHRA, and 10.5 pounds per horsepower for a weight of 3412.5 pounds.

Now, I know NHRA has played with the factoring numbers numerous times over the years, so this is a very rough comparison. But, it's interesting to read!

Re: December feature car ...... COPO PETE's Nova
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="">quote:</font><HR>The Corvette incidently came with a 355hp factored from the NHRA (370hp from the factory) and an 8.89 pounds per horsepower factor. But, they also listed a 350 Corvette with a factory 350hp rating that carried an NHRA factored 370hp, and an 8.65 pounds per horsepower.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There was a post on the CorvetteForum board recently where someone found an NHRA rulebook from 1972 and posted the factored horsepower for Corvette engines. The 1970 LT-1 Corvette engine (350/370) was factored to 400 horsepower (for the 1972 racing season at least).

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zerothread?id=194037

The 355 horsepower figure seems awfully low for a 1970 LT-1... Misprint maybe?

Regards,

Stan Falenski

[Edited by Rowdy Rat (12-08-2001 at 09:39 AM).]

Re: December feature car ...... COPO PETE's Nova
 

Stan:

This is the current NHRA rating of the LT-1. It lists the 355hp rating for the Corvette and the Camaro, in more than 1 place, so it doesn't look to be a misprint.

Now, as it turns out, I was over at the Super Stock site in the chat room, and was asking about what class the Nova might have been in. A couple of them mentioned that they new of a Camaro or 2, running the LT-1s, and they weren't too impressed with the combo. Said that it wasn't under the index, so they were curious about the Nova as well.

As best as I can tell, the NHRA ratings have fallen over the years. Remember, it was NHRA who rated the L-72 at 450hp for a while, but now it's down to 425hp. We've got several old NHRA rule books somewhere, so I will see if I can dig them out and see what's in them.

The NHRA site has some really interesting stuff on it, and is worth the time to dig for the info.

[Note: when looking for info, make sure which specs you are getting. The NHRA posts both "Stock" and "SuperStock" ratings/factors, and they are VERY different!]


[Edited by Chevy454 (12-08-2001 at 10:08 AM).]

Re: December feature car ...... COPO PETE's Nova
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="">quote:</font><HR>This is the current NHRA rating of the LT-1. It lists the 355hp rating for the Corvette and the Camaro, in more than 1 place, so it doesn't look to be a misprint.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I believe you... It's just very surprising. I've owned a 1970 L-46 Corvette as well as several 1970 LT-1 Corvettes and in truly stock form, the LT-1 definitely has the advantage (especially above 3500 rpm). The NHRA factored horsepower ratings certainly have changed over time... Heck, look at the L-88s rating from the 1972 source; it's less than the L-71/L-89. You can't even run an L-88 in stock eliminator anymore... It's super stock only now. Of course, NHRA's goal is to make the racing competitive... Not have the "fast" cars win all the time.

I'm really anxious to see how Pete does with his COPO 9010 Nova when he decides to get serious with it. Should be a real runner!

Regards,

Stan