X22 copo?

COPO 9561 Jan -69 X22 or X66

Why or who would have installed the fender SS emblems on the "COPO"and X22 . I'm coming in late on the discussion....

427 fender emblems and SS fender emblems were glued there for the NY Auto Show to Promote the SS427 program.
Later they removed the 427 emblems on Fenders that you can see in the magazine. When Heavy had her the SS emblems was falling off.

All COPOs 9561 in January Style Trim Camaro are X22

One of the S's missing. I'm sure you have these photos but figured I'd add as they are relevant.

The trim tag to this car which you provided shows trim 711, in this picture it looks like deluxe....

Also deluxe in this photo.

We Vintage Certified an BM X22 L78. It was also an RS but with deluxe interior and converted 427 phase 3 car. It was documented with loads of documentation....

There are only 4 bolts to replace a seat.
Also in the magazine they have TH400 but she had M22 from the factory

The question remains, why a savvy businessman like Joel Rosen wouldn’t just order an orange with deluxe interior Camaro instead of converting a blue car with standard interior to those specs. Also, not much evidence to support the car you correctly own is the same Baldwin Motion car talked about. That being said, you can’t say for sure that the passionate persimmon/wild pumpkin was not automatic from the factory. You are only basing that off your car being an M22. The only person who can definitively answer this question is Joel Rosen, but we know he has repeatedly stated that he didn’t use COPO 9651 for his builds, they were ordered as L78s.

Why in the world would the go thru all this trouble to do a color change, an interior change, make it a 427 and also convert from a stick to an automatic?
When you could just order the exact car you wanted?

This was an email conversion with Marty Schorr back in 2020. I was given permission from the recipient of the email to post this here.

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If nose original parts, what of fender piercings from inside also 427 Crayon markings?

Whether Joel ordered any factory 427 Camaros or not is its own question but not knowing seems improbable as we've discussed at least 3x Baldwin sold 9561 cars here also some info suggests they delivered 10 or more plus add Brent's Dyno-Motion car to the evidence and Joel's connections w/ GM also everyone else into performance, how could he not know?

What year is the NY Auto Show pic w/ subject Motion Camaro from, 69 or 70?
1'st pic below is another angle from the same show w/ Motion Camaro in the background.
Pic w/ Joel and Zora is reputed to be the '70 show but may be a different year w/ same Motion 'Vette?:hmmm:
:beers:
~ Pete

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:beers:

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I’m just curious of the story behind how Carleen came to the conclusion that his car is #1 a COPO & #2 the Motion/Heavy car. It had to be a lot of research behind it all.

Remember shes Joels demo car that he used to Track Test various combinations and new components.

Like 16 years

With the snippets I've seen posted here and there, seems like a good chance it's the real deal, but it's hard to follow as everything is scattered, so perhaps a comprehensive thread showing all the photographic, paperwork, and timeline evidence in one place laid out in a logical manner would be useful.

Of course with multiple statements from both Joel and Marty they were unaware of the COPO program cast a shadow on the story. I heard them both say this at the SCR they attended during the banquet dinner.

I do recall a full color article on an Orange SS RS car in HP Cars magazine, where they drove it to the track and bolted on slicks. I seem to recall the article was titled "fun for a day". I have the magazine somewhere, but not handy at the moment.

With that said, unless you're selling, you don't have to prove anything to anybody.

The last ‘69 Camaro I owned was a 980 mile ex-NHRA Super Stocker that Bill Izykowski bought new from Reedman. It is an “01B” car, that was originally a 53 50 two-tone paint Glacier Blue/White roof with Blue standard interior. 396/350 horse stick that Bill ran in SS/H.
Trim tag reads “X22” and body number about 500 units before this one. I sincerely hope Carleen’s car is what it is claimed to be, but the one I had bears many similarities and was definitely not a COPO. I have pics of the tag and the car dressed in ‘69 livery if anyone wants to see them.

You cant see on the Trim Tag if it is a COPO or not

More BM COPOs

Although this car appears to be a COPO, it is 100% not a “Baldwin Motion” it was an out of state customers car that was driven to Motion for modification.

Me pointing this same car out in a previous thread:

https://www.yenko.net/forum/showpost...89&postcount=9

Martyn’s response to that car:

https://www.yenko.net/forum/showpost...3&postcount=11

Window Sticker still on it

That doesn’t change the fact that it was a customer supplied car from out of state. It was not purchased from Baldwin Chevrolet nor was it sold as a brand new Phase III. Martyn Schorr even confirmed that!

COPO, I respectfully disagree with your last statement. Carleen has presented this car as a COPO based on his opinion. Also I believe there have been facts and evidence provided by members that bring into question what the car was born as and history.

I understand. I now must wonder if, down the road, the car I owned might somehow appear as an “undocumented COPO” from info gained from your research and this thread. I have copies of previous titles and am friends with the original owner, so IF that happens to play out, we can dispel the story. I can only assume your car has the tell-tale signs (piercings, etc.) associated with a COPO tub/shell. Now, that the pandemic is nearly in the rear view mirror, do you intend to contact Joel Rosen?

Carleen’s car being an X22, all the tell-tale signs of a COPO would also be found on an SS396 (L78) with factory ordered ZL2, minus of course if the X22 car were equipped with factory AC (which would make it an L35 or L34). The same goes for an X66. Now if those tell-tale signs were on an X11 or X44... Unfortunately once a car is fully restored, there’s no way to know if those items were there from the factory or added during restoration.

Carleen, can you post some pictures of your engine bay? Also, does your car have a BE 12-bolt rear in it? If so, is it date matched to your car?

That was kinda my point. I’m aware of “X66” Yenko cars, but am not too familiar with “X22 and/or “X66” COPOs. My former “X22” didn’t have the factory “Cold Air Package” originally, but the items were added not long after initially purchased. I’d be interested in knowing more about Carleen’s car and, like I said, I hope it is the car he thinks it is.

My point is Carleen can state whatever he wishes and people can also choose to disagree, but unless he's selling or trying to get his car officially certified, he doesn't have an obligation to prove his opinion to anyone. Anyone is free to have their own opinions of his car.

If he wants others to accept his opinion, then he would need to post evidence to convince others his opinion is correct. So far, this doesn't seem to be the case, hence my suggestion to show his evidence in a more organized manner rather than the snippets here and there.

Personally, my guess it was an L-78 from the factory as Joel and Marty both stated they never knew about the COPO program. It does seem to be Heavy's car based on the paint and lettering he said he has found, but better evidence of this would be helpful.

My point is when a car is represented as something on this site, especially a COPO there will be a healthy discussion. In this instance it is very clear this car is not a COPO. It is irrelevant whether it's being sold now or not, the true heritage, identity and history is important!

I have a Baldwin Automotive delivered car and one of the first things I did was contact Joel Rosen. He confirmed it wasn't prepped by Motion.

This site and CRG represent the authority on COPO's and our goal is maintain our integrity. A lot of time and effort goes into verifying and maintaining our COPO Registry.

Written on Firewall
427 425 Special Order 427
427 425 L BLU S SYC
M22

Sorry but all I’m seeing is GL-BLU & RS. Also it doesn’t appear to be a cowl induction car originally at least from that photo.

First week of 9561 production, Baldwin didn't know about COPO's yet, neither did Motion. And the body # is normal production, as noted above by Dave, DW31S.

I have a document that states this car was sold by Brahms Chev in NJ and they installed a 427. Not sure of the validity of the doc.

Firewall - L BLU = light blue

Okay its not a COPO.
And its not BM Demo.
And its not Heavys Camaro

Good thing you pointed out that L BLU means Light Blue had never figured it out myself

You never thought that the Yenko cars had the COPO 9737 and that they had to wait for special parts before they could assemble them. Other dealers who only ordered COPO 9561 went through the process a little faster

Heavy told Dan it was a COPO

If no cowl induction from factory, then not a COPO and a BE coded rear dated to the car would also be helpful to see. As I mentioned, it was most likely a X22 L-78 equipped car and then had a 427 transplant.

If it was the same orange SS RS car in the Super Car magazine article that Marty wrote, then Motion did the transplant. If shipping records show it was delivered to Baldwin, then good chance it is a BM car, but more history and research is needed.

Is this the document you have?