In Chronological order:
https://www.barrett-jackson.com/Even...LLE-LS6-234262 Sold $137,500.

https://www.barrett-jackson.com/Even...LLE-LS6-224541 Sold $56,100.00
https://www.barrett-jackson.com/Even...-SS-LS6-180571 Sold 88K.
https://www.mecum.com/lots/KC1213-16...-chevelle-ls6/ Sold $41,500.

If you calculate the 10% from buyer and 10% from the seller off the $323,200 total sales, you get $64K in commissions. You could build another two for that price. Hey, you could start a multi-level-marketing Ponzi scheme out of LS6's ;-)

It reminds me of trading places "now tell him the good part"

So long as BJ and Mecum don't get hurt in any of these shenanigans!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;>))

It all makes for a black eye on the hobby, every time someone gets burned with one of these counterfeit vehicles it has the potential of taking that individual out of the hobby forever that is the bad side of it.

Until some auction house steps up and offers a guarantee of the description, it will never get any better. Barrett-Jackson does some due diligence with their automotive experts attempting to limit the false claims, but even that pales in the eyes of what is truly needed.

It seems as though the experts at B-J only say if a car is what it is claimed to be; I’ve yet to hear/read/see one of the staff experts say a consigned vehicle is a fake (before it hits the block).

I'm certainly not defending anything or anyone here. I stand by my statement "Until some auction house steps up and offers a guarantee of the description, it will never get any better."

Having served as an automotive expert for Barrett-Jackson in the past I can assure you many descriptions have been changed, some cars have been removed from the sale and some have even been impounded by the authorities. So I might disagree with your claim. It's also pretty hard to review 170 plus cars in your area of expertise within a few days which is often all you have. I actually had cars show up for the first time in the staging lane and changed the description on the car when it was literally one car away. It's not as easy as hind site makes it sound.

"Until some auction house steps up and offers a guarantee of the description...."

While that would do alot help these situations, thats never ever going to happen.

I can attest that Barrett is trying to weed out the fakes. They even have guys that inspect the restomod cars to make sure the description matches what they see. Like saying the car has a LS3 but when checked it simply has a LS1. They are then given the option of changing the description to correctly reflect what is there or pull the car from the auction. Or vins have been swapped so they inform law enforcement.

Heck , the guys that "certify" cars for a living make mistakes,and besides THEY wont even guarantee and stand behind thier certifications in writing ......

I asked in an earlier post about the original protecto plate this car has been advertised with having. It hasnt been mentioned... have I stepped in something? Maybe it was a dumb question or y'all just dont like me :dunno:

My understanding is the LS5/LS6 have specific engine codes, like the DZ on my Camaro. These are also on the POP of course, but would it be reissued for a CE replacement? I thought a new POP would only be made if the car was sold during the warranty period. Either way this isnt the "original" one.

Rob I've searched for years trying to find an example of paperwork issued to an owner on replacement of a damaged engine/block or trans with a warranty CE or CT unit, no luck. Wanted to see if they recorded the CE/CT Stamp number and cross-referenced it to the car's VIN. JohnZ wrote once that he had some documentation for the CE block and one cylinder head replaced in his Z/28 under warranty circa 1970, but the docs were stored in a file and not readily available. The car sold a few years ago, so that door is closed.
My understanding (having viewed limited replacement PoPs) is that they were issued to a second owner within factory warranty period, on payment of a warranty transfer fee - there is wording to this effect on warranty protection plan wallets - or if the original was lost, but replacements did not contain all of the data stamped on the original PoP.

The Protect O Plate booklet for this subject car is not genuine & was recently made with new world technology.
Seller claimed he found it hidden up inside the dashboard.
One owner before him,(who removed & restored the dashboard many years ago),laughed at that claim on so many levels.

Is this any help? Issued to second owner of a '69 Chevelle SS in '71 when a CE block was installed.

Thanks! I'll PM you to avoid taking this thread off original topic.

The car delivered new in GA, not CA that would tell me the POP is counterfeit!! Dealer trades were not happening 2200 miles apart in 1970, doubt they do today very often.

And now another LS6 on eBay with a Fake Build Sheet and was once a former known L34 Race car that used to be owned by another one of my club members.
Can't believe how bad this hobby is getting !!!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1970-Chevro...sw1Gc-GKoPgyKE

I recall that Green L-34 when it was on Racingjunk.I tried to go see it for another who was interested,but the seller sold it too soon.
Many know it's true heritage.

LS6 Clone VIN 136370B167139
:beers:
~ Pete

.

Maybe. Instead of a REGISTRY of Real LS 6 or L78 or Whatever.... a Registry with known information on Clones is needed. LOL

I’ll keep sayin it. We can’t control what these cars are advertised as.... but we can and should continue to beat the drum that you just have to ask questions before buying!! I have little sympathy I’m afraid for the guys who do No Homework. Some folks spend a weekend on the internet researching which new Flat Screen Tv to buy.... but spend less than 45 mins researching whether the muscle car they are about to spend a years salary on, is legit. No Joke.

It's coming to the point that there's a need for an LS6 clone registry......

I have always had a registry on real cars in addition to fakes but LS6 cars only. However, due to liability issues it cannot be published. Also, many are suspect but not confirmed due to such things as restamped drivetrain, paperwork, history, etc.

When Chevrolet gives up the build records this will all be over !

Its a non-issue for Pontiacs, even when the Firebirds were made at Norwood.

http://www.phs-online.com/order.htm

:rolleyes:

That will never happen. If it did it would of been around the time when there were more so called original 67 l88 vetts than what were originally produced! It will NEVER happen!

I must say I love the fact we can get documentation for cars built here in Canada and Imported. It doesn’t protect us from scum bag restampers but at least we know the cars started out as something.

:haha:


If there was a clone registry, it would probably have more entries than the 'legit' registry.

'Known Clone" Registry would be nice !!! haha

"When Chevrolet gives up the build records this will all be over..."

Is there such a thing? And if so why aren't they available? Asking because I don't know and have heard different things, a lot of the people on here would have a better idea then most.

It's Ironic that Chevrolet found most of the Shipping Data that NCRS now has a service for but yet they can't dig up the Assembly Build Records on these cars like Oshawa Canada Kept for there cars built and Imported into Canada.

I bet there still out there but they don't want to disclose them for some reason from the USA Chevrolet files. I just don't buy that rumour that they were lost in a fire.
Hopefully one day they will emerge but wishful thinking IMO

"I just don't buy that rumour that they were lost in a fire..."

Never heard that. What I most commonly hear is due to the volume of production, Chevrolet just didn't keep up with records very well, and over time, they disappeared. Easy to see that happening when Van Nuys or Norwood shut down, or when the St Louis Corvette assembly moved to Bowling Green.

My apologies for getting so for off the subject of the original post.

I agree that the records exist in some fashion whether it be through the zone office, parts, service, shipping etc. That said, I highly doubt they will surface. Think of all the lawsuits where an attorney could say, you had the build records all of this time but chose not to release them and as a result my client got burned or something to that effect.

Bottom line is if the buyers were willing to admit to themselves that they are in over their heads and hire an expert to examine a car before they buy, this would be a non issue.

the auctions could care less,including the great b-j,this car was brought to their attention by previous owner and they totally blew it off.when proof was presented to them they said the vice president(the moron who wears sunglasses inside maybe?)would be in touch,years later no such contact
https://www.barrett-jackson.com/Even...-HARDTOP-39824

He wears the sunglasses because of a eye condition and is a nice guy.

could be but still no call from him or anyone else at b-j

I always figured they didn't want to be drawn into the many lawsuits that would fly about fake cars.

Interesting article from August 2016 ...

https://www.barrett-jackson.com/Medi...t-z28-camaros/

So the question ya gotta ask yourself is..... " Do you feel lucky today?" " Well do ya?"

All kidding aside, people do still need to ask themselves.... is seeing a car that was verified or listed as real or in a registry.... enough to just pull the trigger without investigating further ??

For me, I would still do my own due dilligence and the ask the people I trust to look at the docs and stampings and tags. That's just me

I hear ya Roy, and I'm not in total disagreement with you. I'm friends with one of the experts and I've heard some horror stories. My point was/is that the cars that are inspected and deemed "illegitimate" aren't announced as clones/fake/tribute, or whatever the latest term is when they are offered (the majority of the time). I've heard the word "undocumented" thrown around lately, and in my opinion, that is nothing more than a build that was intended to deceive. IF a car is "genuinely undocumented" there would/could/should be enough tell-tale signs for an expert of the marque to determine the veracity of said vehicle. The fake P-O-P is nothing new. Many years ago I bought a CE 512 block for an LS-6 from a fellow (no names) that had a P-O-P machine in his dining room complete with original GM tape and blanks. This was back in the mid '90s, so like I said, faking docs isn't new. At that time, the going rate for a "Genuine GM" P-O-P was $275. Technically, they WERE Genuine GM, they just weren't ORIGINAL. The whole thing STINKS if you ask me.

And as long as we keep patronizing these fake paper makers they will continue to prosper and the problem deepen. If some of these people were truly making some of these documents and the cars for show only or for their own enjoyment they would make such paperwork and/or cars VIN's made public but so far no one is willing to do that. In some states you as a builder who sells a car to a customer with full disclosure but that person sells it as real can still be held accountable so they need to be very careful.

I have purchased a lot of material over the years such as POP machines, tape, stamps, dealer invoice books, etc, etc for the sole purpose of getting such items off the streets. Very expensive to purchase but at least they are not on the street being used fraudulently. They are now on display in our showroom showcases.

An interesting thread...buffoonery abounds...

It just isn't cars guys routinely fake for profit. I also have an interest in WW2 US/German firearms, especially USMC sniper rifles.

I own one of the top real examples of what most collectors call an USMC Unertl sniper and have turned down in excess of $45k for it. A group of us who belong to a secret squirrel FB group, realized the number of fake rifles FAR exceeded the number of original ones. As a result I created a registry to track serial numbers and serve as a record.

I mention this as originally the registry was only about real rifles...ones we could prove were righteous. However after talking about it and noting guys were selling fakes for half or more of the value (a lot of money regardless)...we now track ANY serial we see reporting to be an Unertl sniper.

It still hasn't stopped some guys from spending stupid money (1 guy bought 2 obvious fakes for almost 75k total...with different transactions....and knew how to ask questions BEFORE buying...but got caught up in auction BS...lol)..

Tracking all reported (real and fakes) has allowed us to have a historical database we can reference, supplied some interesting quantitative data and actually saved a couple of guys from getting burned...

Something to consider in the future.

The problem is with pop plates that some individuals(( we know who they are)) have nos booklets and the pop machines along with nos tape. You cannot tell their fakes without a serious investigation of past owners and addresses.