Funny, I don't see the overweight LS-6 being on the top of the list as far as ET's are concerned? They were a bit limited in availability to about 4500 in 1 year of production, and I honestly don't think it has much of an advantage (other than Hp rating) over a a L-78 Nova? I happen to know of a '69 L-78 Nova, headers slick and re-curved dist and it was an 11.70 car back in 1969. PLUS it was available for 3 years (68-70) and was a bunch cheaper then the LS-6.

Is this not exactly the reason Don Yenko waited for a COPO version of the Nova 427 before he would jump in with a YSC version? Curb weight of a SS396 Nova 4sp "on-line" is 3370 as posted here:

http://www.automobile-catalog.com/ma...e_ss/1969.html

Curb weight of a 1970 SS454 4sp LS-6 is 3743 as posted on the same site:

http://www.automobile-catalog.com/ma...e_ss/1970.html

So a 396 Nova would be 378 lbs lighter and we all know the L-78 can run HARD as well.

Therefore, I really think the SS396 Nova we the actual street KING. ET wise, there were very hard to beat, available for 3 years with hi compression, and low buck so more could afford them.

Then you can talk about the COPO 427 Nova's!!!! Only the Zl-1 and the A990/'68 Hemi cars could run with that beast.

I beg to differ. Again the LS6 came standard with a 3.31 non-posi rear. It was limited to F70x14 tires at a time that F60x15 tires were becoming very popular. The 1970 Chevelle SS, 442 and GTO did not offer 60 series tires as an option. The Buick GS455 did - G60x15. And speaking of those GM muscle cars, all except the Chevelle SS came standard with G70x14 tires. Why didn't Chevy make them standard on the Chevelle SS?

When it's all said and done, tires are such an important part of a muscle car. Right up there at the top of the list with rear end gear ratio and "posi" rear.

Have you guys seen this list:

http://roadtests.tripod.com/

BUNCH of test from the time of different cars and times they ran?

There were no COPO 427 Novas. Chevrolet refused to put the L72 427 in a Nova for Don Yenko or anyone else for that matter. All the 1969 Yenko 427 Novas were engine swaps. Cars were ordered as L78s then the short block 396 was replaced with a short block L72 427. The L78 heads, intake and exhaust manifolds were then put back on.

Chevrolet built 4 COPO cars:

1968 L78 Nova SS396 with special HD TH400
1969 L72 427 Camaro
1969 L72 427 Chevelle
1969 ZL1 Camaro

Sorry, I thought they DID come with 427 from the factory? Something about 37 to Yenko and 50 to Gibbs or Dana or something like that??? I thought for some reason a couple of the early '69 Yenko Nova's were conversions as COPO was on board with the other 37???

I could be wrong? If I am, opps my bad.

X2 on 69 Nova L78!!!

Yenko built approx. 37 1969 427 Nova Super Sports.

The 50 are the ones Chevy built for Fred Gibbs (COPO 9738) - 1968 L78 Nova SS396 with the special HD TH400 - the first cars to have a TH400 behind a solid lifter Hi Performance BB engine. They also came standard with power drum brakes, HD radiator and a 4.10 posi 12 bolt rear.

The problem with the L78 Nova SS 396s were the tires: E70x14. No problem if you are street racing from a running start. BIG problem from a standing start.

WHO kept the stock tires on??? All these "day 2" thread an no-one had stock OEM tire!

So the OEM tire is a "moot" point.

IF your looking at EVERYTHING being OEM stock and correct with ALL cars. It comes down to the 15X8 rim'med Vettes. 15 X 8 rims and sidepipes for the win.

70s' NHRA Pure Stock -- same size tires/rims that came from the factory ... just sayin' ... TAZ

The essence of this thread AFAIK was which muscle car . . . right off the showroom floor . . . could be considered King of the muscle cars.

So such things as which transmission was standard or mandatory, what was the standard tire size, what was the standard rear axle ratio, did it include "posi?"

Then you have to consider what were available options? Could you improve on what was standard by spending more money or were you stuck with "it."

Let me give you an example - 1970 GS455 came standard with G70x14 tires and a 3.42 non-posi rear. Order the Stage 1 option and you got a 3.64 posi rear included. And you could order G60x15 tires on either steel wheels and hubcaps or extra charge 15" chrome "Magnum 500" wheels.

I think its fair to say that the gear rations are really irrelevant to the topic considering all of the gear options for all of the models. Let's take car for car in general terms.

I disagree.

I am sure you have seen this list before:

http://www.streetmusclemag.com/news/...t-muscle-cars/

Look at all the cars with 3.23 - 3.55 gears

We are talking about 1969 - 1970, the zenith of muscle cars. How many people actually ordered a 4.10 posi rear for their 1970 LS6 Chevelle SS? The one Chevrolet provided to Car Craft had a 3.55 rear in it.

Now keep in mind that by 1970 insurance rates were sky high on super hi performance cars. So the factories didn't set their cars up for optimum performance when they lent one out to a magazine for testing and a write up. They didn't want to see an LS6 Chevelle SS do 12.90 in the quarter mile right off the showroom floor for fear insurance companies wouldn't insure them.

In 1969 Chevrolet had 6400 dealerships in the USA. How many of them were Hi Performance Dealerships?

That's what made some cars special. Like the 1968 RAII GTO with it's standard 4.33 posi rear or the 1969/1970 RAIV GTO with a standard 3.90 rear.

If you ordered a 1970 Hemi 'Cuda with an auto trans the standard rear axle ratio was 3.23. If you wanted 4.10 gears it's cost you $221.00 which is $1,425.40 in 2017 dollars! They only came with the super performance axle package which included PFDB.

IMO - some cars have grown in stature over time due to their rarity and not necessarily what their original performance specs were. A perfect example is the Boss 429.

Would someone please explain to me why this engine has a 735 CFM carb on it while the Boss 302 has a 780 CFM carb. Why didn't Ford put a 780 CFM carb on the Boss 429?

More pot stirring...... :) Don't leave out the step child, The 70Z28 COPO 9796... Different kinda racing but...

:)

Rich

LOL - that was nothing but a rear spoiler Chevy stole . . . urr . . . borrowed from the Pontiac Trans Am.

Well Rich - if you really want to "stir the pot" don't forget about COPO 9511 . . . . . 1969 Camaro: 4.56/4.88 gears (includes Positraction)

I have huge respect for the LS-6 Chevelle as one of my favorites and a beautiful car by all measures. Ordered with a 4.10 rear and bench seat, non-power steering and an M-22 (with an aftermarket shifter), it would be tough to beat on the street, and tough to beat for style and looks at the local cruise spot in 1970.

I second the L78 Nova as a great street racer. Mine was ordered with only two options beyond the mandatory SS package and positraction to get the L78/M40. The options on my car are tinted glass and AM radio. Went straight to Milan Dragway when new in code 50 Dover White (aka "Race car white").

I wish Gary Oldham was a member on this site and could chime in since he lived this stuff in the 1960's/70's as evidenced by his book, Musclecar Confidential. I was surprised that he didn't have an LS6 Chevelle road test to submit? Also, I recall from reading the book cover to cover many times, he doesn't give much respect to the Fords, stating that on the street they didn't have much going until the '68 Cobra Jet Mustangs made the scene.

Today, while I am a Chevrolet enthusiast and hope to build my small collection to maybe a dozen cars over the next decade or so, I appreciate all well restored or original muscle cars. In high school we all argued over what was fastest and which cars "SUCK!!", but today, I see the beauty in all of them.

My King.

The 1968 - 1970 L78 Nova SS396 is a great muscle car no question. But IMO it was a car that Chevrolet paid no real attention to. Such things as never offering the 396/325 HP engine as an option, never offering RWL tires as an option, never designing stripes for it, never designing chrome exhaust tips for it, using the same hood inserts for 3 years. The M22 is offered in 1968 and 1969 but not in 1970. Chevy called it the Console option but it really wasn't. It was a Consolette. The 396 engine options don't appear in any of the brochures. It was almost as if Chevy didn't want to sell you a Nova SS396.

Please don't wax lyrical using today's knowledge and say how great all that was - a street sleeper, a Q-Ship because back in 1969/1970 that wasn't what a muscle car was.

This is like a bunch of old men arguing over which one is best: blonde brunette or redhead.

One of each please!


:)

Rich

What He Said.. LOL