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Re: Top Day 2 Musclecars?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: old5.0</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If engine swaps are allowed I want a Boss 351 Maverick. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/naughty.gif[/img] </div></div>
That would be FUN! About 2900 lbs, right? Great engine, too. Which brings me to my next point - if you were going to break this into different classes, what would it look like? Day 2 has different meanings to different folks, but there are a few different levels. 1. Day 0 - not a real class, but you start off with the same rules as Pure Stock Drags, so the PSD folks can easily run the below classes. 2. Day 2 - larger tires allowed, but no slicks. Larger wheels, too, of course. Slapper bars allowed. Headers allowed, along with free-flowing exhaust (limited to 2.5" and mufflers that were available from '64-'71?). 3. Day 3 - Period correct slicks allowed. Gears can be deeper than what was factory available. Shift kits ok for auto trans and aftermarket shifters (period correct) for manual trans. Aftermarket cams ok as long as it's a grind available from 64-71. Period correct intake, ignition, and carb upgrades ok, but no holes in the hood. No machine work (porting, etc) on heads or short block. No body mods, no mini-tubs, no aftermarket hood scoops. Open headers ok. 4. Day 4 - Engine swaps allowed, but only something available from 64-71. Body mods allowed. Hood scoops allowed. Engine machine work allowed. Rear-end swaps allowed. Removing weight (back seat, etc), allowed. Hole in the hood allowed. Tunnel rams ok. What did I miss? |
Re: Top Day 2 Musclecars?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: napa68</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Jimmy Addison's Silver Bullet would be a cool discussion.
Day 2,3,4.......... http://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/...pshw5jsszj.jpg </div></div> I've heard of the car, but not too familiar with it. Can you or someone else share the details? |
Re: Top Day 2 Musclecars?
It was a factory supported bench test for Chrysler back in the day. One of the most famous Hemi's ever to roam the streets of Detroit. VERY cool car, one of my favorite Mopar's
Bill |
Re: Top Day 2 Musclecars?
Got this off another site. 487-cubic-inch Hemi V-8 under the super stock hood scoop was equipped with a 4.25" stroker crankshaft, oversize TRW pistons, Racer Brown camshaft, 10-quart oil pan and aluminum cylinder heads. Fuel was delivered to the twin Holley four-barrel carburetors via a Stewart Warner electric fuel pump, while Hooker headers directed exhaust to the four '68 Cadillac mufflers through 3" pipes. Transfer of power to the M&H drag slicks at the rear was achieved with a modified Torqueflite automatic transmission, while compliant front shock absorbers teamed with super stock rear springs to achieve the desired rearward weight transfer. The "Bullet" in full street trim could cover the quarter mile in 10.50 seconds at a speed of 132 mph.
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Re: Top Day 2 Musclecars?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bulletpruf</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: old5.0</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If engine swaps are allowed I want a Boss 351 Maverick. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/naughty.gif[/img] </div></div>
That would be FUN! About 2900 lbs, right? Great engine, too. Which brings me to my next point - if you were going to break this into different classes, what would it look like? Day 2 has different meanings to different folks, but there are a few different levels. 1. Day 0 - not a real class, but you start off with the same rules as Pure Stock Drags, so the PSD folks can easily run the below classes. 2. Day 2 - larger tires allowed, but no slicks. Larger wheels, too, of course. Slapper bars allowed. Headers allowed, along with free-flowing exhaust (limited to 2.5" and mufflers that were available from '64-'71?). 3. Day 3 - Period correct slicks allowed. Gears can be deeper than what was factory available. Shift kits ok for auto trans and aftermarket shifters (period correct) for manual trans. Aftermarket cams ok as long as it's a grind available from 64-71. Period correct intake, ignition, and carb upgrades ok, but no holes in the hood. No machine work (porting, etc) on heads or short block. No body mods, no mini-tubs, no aftermarket hood scoops. Open headers ok. 4. Day 4 - Engine swaps allowed, but only something available from 64-71. Body mods allowed. Hood scoops allowed. Engine machine work allowed. Rear-end swaps allowed. Removing weight (back seat, etc), allowed. Hole in the hood allowed. Tunnel rams ok. What did I miss? </div></div> My thinking is similar to yours. I've always thought of Day 2 as something like Pure Stock + slicks and headers. The problem is that everyone's definition is going to vary. For example, I know of an 84 Hurst/Olds that was bought new and immediately driven home from the dealership and "re-powered" with a 350 out of a 70 W-31 Cutlass. I know 1984 is outside the timeframe we're discussing, but it does illustrate the fact that there's going to be serious disagreement over what constitutes true Day 2. The other problem is creating unstoppable combinations (like my cousin's 351C powered 71 Pinto, for example). Making swaps "Day 4" helps, but it's still a tough one. The streets are pretty tough these days, but with a 1971 cutoff for speed parts, cars like the Cleveland Pinto mentioned above turn into class killers. His car is basically a circa-mid 70's Pro Stocker with a license plate, and while I firmly believe in the old adage "there's always someone faster", there's no doubt a 351 Pinto is going to be near the top of the food chain. I dunno, I'm just thinking out loud. |
Re: Top Day 2 Musclecars?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Billohio</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Got this off another site. 487-cubic-inch Hemi V-8 under the super stock hood scoop was equipped with a 4.25" stroker crankshaft, oversize TRW pistons, Racer Brown camshaft, 10-quart oil pan and aluminum cylinder heads. Fuel was delivered to the twin Holley four-barrel carburetors via a Stewart Warner electric fuel pump, while Hooker headers directed exhaust to the four '68 Cadillac mufflers through 3" pipes. Transfer of power to the M&H drag slicks at the rear was achieved with a modified Torqueflite automatic transmission, while compliant front shock absorbers teamed with super stock rear springs to achieve the desired rearward weight transfer. The "Bullet" in full street trim could cover the quarter mile in 10.50 seconds at a speed of 132 mph. </div></div>
Definitely a Day 4 car. |
Re: Top Day 2 Musclecars?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: old5.0</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bulletpruf</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: old5.0</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If engine swaps are allowed I want a Boss 351 Maverick. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/naughty.gif[/img] </div></div>
That would be FUN! About 2900 lbs, right? Great engine, too. Which brings me to my next point - if you were going to break this into different classes, what would it look like? Day 2 has different meanings to different folks, but there are a few different levels. 1. Day 0 - not a real class, but you start off with the same rules as Pure Stock Drags, so the PSD folks can easily run the below classes. 2. Day 2 - larger tires allowed, but no slicks. Larger wheels, too, of course. Slapper bars allowed. Headers allowed, along with free-flowing exhaust (limited to 2.5" and mufflers that were available from '64-'71?). 3. Day 3 - Period correct slicks allowed. Gears can be deeper than what was factory available. Shift kits ok for auto trans and aftermarket shifters (period correct) for manual trans. Aftermarket cams ok as long as it's a grind available from 64-71. Period correct intake, ignition, and carb upgrades ok, but no holes in the hood. No machine work (porting, etc) on heads or short block. No body mods, no mini-tubs, no aftermarket hood scoops. Open headers ok. 4. Day 4 - Engine swaps allowed, but only something available from 64-71. Body mods allowed. Hood scoops allowed. Engine machine work allowed. Rear-end swaps allowed. Removing weight (back seat, etc), allowed. Hole in the hood allowed. Tunnel rams ok. What did I miss? </div></div> My thinking is similar to yours. I've always thought of Day 2 as something like Pure Stock + slicks and headers. The problem is that everyone's definition is going to vary. For example, I know of an 84 Hurst/Olds that was bought new and immediately driven home from the dealership and "re-powered" with a 350 out of a 70 W-31 Cutlass. I know 1984 is outside the timeframe we're discussing, but it does illustrate the fact that there's going to be serious disagreement over what constitutes true Day 2. The other problem is creating unstoppable combinations (like my cousin's 351C powered 71 Pinto, for example). Making swaps "Day 4" helps, but it's still a tough one. The streets are pretty tough these days, but with a 1971 cutoff for speed parts, cars like the Cleveland Pinto mentioned above turn into class killers. His car is basically a circa-mid 70's Pro Stocker with a license plate, and while I firmly believe in the old adage "there's always someone faster", there's no doubt a 351 Pinto is going to be near the top of the food chain. I dunno, I'm just thinking out loud. </div></div> Everyone's definition of Day 2 will indeed be different. But once you agree on a set of rules, that's what you have to work with. 351C in a Pinto would indeed but tough to beat, but I don't think it would necessarily rule the roost. Lots of other combo's out there with a lightweight car to start with -- Vega, Chevy II, Maverick, etc. |
Re: Top Day 2 Musclecars?
Addison's Mopar had backing from Chrysler so while a cool beast, I can't really throw that car into this discussion. Possibly the baddest street car ever (in OUR terms of street car; not the silly Hot Rod magazine thing), but hardly attainable by the average Joe.
And so far BIG has made the most profound statement of this discussion......Stay away from Summit!!! |
Re: Top Day 2 Musclecars?
'64 A864 street Hemi aluminum nose sedan from either Plymouth or Dodge if you're talking strictly Day 2 mods of shifter / shift kit and the 3 T's - tach / tires / tune. They already had 4.56 gears. Take off 4-bolts to uncap the factory "manifold's" and in the right hands would be a hard to beat car.
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Re: Top Day 2 Musclecars?
Like I said earlier, BB Vega with "period" parts will be the car to beat! Motion had a 454 Vega "offered" in 1970/1971 before "the man" stopped them.
So you start with what could be an 800+Hp BBc into a Vega? Then there are so many other factors that 99% of the people never think of? But guys like myself and my friend, when it comes to heads up racing, go that extra to get ever .001" of a second? So what happens when you got a guy that has THE WILL, THE DOLLARS AND THE SMARTS to do whatever it takes to be the top dog. My friend, Butch Kemp is a perfect example. NA10.5 or Ultra Street SB ON MOTOR that can run 4.72 LAST YEAR. He does whatever it takes to make sure that he has done his homework and prepared to the best of his ability once that car come to the line. We also had another guy. His DAD wanted to run 8.90 INDEX in the local series. He went out and bought him a CURRENT NHRA Pro Stock roller from Kenny Kuretsky and a new 572 GM crate motor. $75,000.00 ROLLER to run 8.90 and win $1,000.00??? 2 weeks before he got the roller, Kenny was running it in Pro Stock. Heads up will also be a very tough and therefore expensive class, not matter what people say. And the more rules, the more the cost goes up. |
Re: Top Day 2 Musclecars?
I'll see your 454 Vega and raise you a 494 Can Am Boss Pinto. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/naughty.gif[/img]
Heads up gets out of control quick. |
Re: Top Day 2 Musclecars?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PLATINUM6BBL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">'64 A864 street Hemi aluminum nose sedan from either Plymouth or Dodge if you're talking strictly Day 2 mods of shifter / shift kit and the 3 T's - tach / tires / tune. They already had 4.56 gears. Take off 4-bolts to uncap the factory "manifold's" and in the right hands would be a hard to beat car. </div></div>
Were these production cars that came off the assembly line or were they farmed out? Curious to hear if they are legal in Pure Stock, too. Did a quick Google search and didn't get a definitive answer. Thanks |
Re: Top Day 2 Musclecars?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EZ Nova</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Like I said earlier, BB Vega with "period" parts will be the car to beat! Motion had a 454 Vega "offered" in 1970/1971 before "the man" stopped them.
So you start with what could be an 800+Hp BBc into a Vega? Then there are so many other factors that 99% of the people never think of? But guys like myself and my friend, when it comes to heads up racing, go that extra to get ever .001" of a second? So what happens when you got a guy that has THE WILL, THE DOLLARS AND THE SMARTS to do whatever it takes to be the top dog. My friend, Butch Kemp is a perfect example. NA10.5 or Ultra Street SB ON MOTOR that can run 4.72 LAST YEAR. He does whatever it takes to make sure that he has done his homework and prepared to the best of his ability once that car come to the line. We also had another guy. His DAD wanted to run 8.90 INDEX in the local series. He went out and bought him a CURRENT NHRA Pro Stock roller from Kenny Kuretsky and a new 572 GM crate motor. $75,000.00 ROLLER to run 8.90 and win $1,000.00??? 2 weeks before he got the roller, Kenny was running it in Pro Stock. Heads up will also be a very tough and therefore expensive class, not matter what people say. And the more rules, the more the cost goes up. </div></div> The good thing about it is that anyone who can afford a Pure Stock Drags car should be able to race in Day 2 and Day 3 with a modest outlay of cash. Being competitive in Day 4 could be expensive, but it sure would be fun to watch! |
Re: Top Day 2 Musclecars?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: old5.0</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'll see your 454 Vega and raise you a 494 Can Am Boss Pinto. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/naughty.gif[/img]
Heads up gets out of control quick. </div></div> 900 hp and a 94" wheelbase? Yep, that can get "out of control quick." |
Re: Top Day 2 Musclecars?
Was a line built car and not farmed out. If you were well read in the magazines back in the day you could go to your local Mopar dealer and order one w/o having to be a "factory" driver. The issue on these cars is the term "header" instead of manifold. "Headers" are not allowed in Pure Stock or FAST. The first 3" of these manifolds are cast iron with tubular pipes put into them. Since the factory called them "headers" in the literature they have not been allowed to race. Here's what they look like - http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/2918271...amp;rmvSB=true
Moparts post on them - http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/...-hardtops.html Texas teen 64 Hemi - http://akudanquran.com/news/The-Texas-Te...Racing-History/ Thing of beauty or nightmares? - https://www.google.com/search?q=a864...ZnvUZqygsHM%3A <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bulletpruf</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PLATINUM6BBL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">'64 A864 street Hemi aluminum nose sedan from either Plymouth or Dodge if you're talking strictly Day 2 mods of shifter / shift kit and the 3 T's - tach / tires / tune. They already had 4.56 gears. Take off 4-bolts to uncap the factory "manifold's" and in the right hands would be a hard to beat car. </div></div> Were these production cars that came off the assembly line or were they farmed out? Curious to hear if they are legal in Pure Stock, too. Did a quick Google search and didn't get a definitive answer. Thanks </div></div> |
Re: Top Day 2 Musclecars?
Marvin Hughes 64 Hemi Dodge video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ts6-qOglPg - this thing is a beast!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bulletpruf</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PLATINUM6BBL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">'64 A864 street Hemi aluminum nose sedan from either Plymouth or Dodge if you're talking strictly Day 2 mods of shifter / shift kit and the 3 T's - tach / tires / tune. They already had 4.56 gears. Take off 4-bolts to uncap the factory "manifold's" and in the right hands would be a hard to beat car. </div></div> Were these production cars that came off the assembly line or were they farmed out? Curious to hear if they are legal in Pure Stock, too. Did a quick Google search and didn't get a definitive answer. Thanks </div></div> |
Re: Top Day 2 Musclecars?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PLATINUM6BBL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Was a line built car and not farmed out. If you were well read in the magazines back in the day you could go to your local Mopar dealer and order one w/o having to be a "factory" driver. The issue on these cars is the term "header" instead of manifold. "Headers" are not allowed in Pure Stock or FAST. The first 3" of these manifolds are cast iron with tubular pipes put into them. Since the factory called them "headers" in the literature they have not been allowed to race. Here's what they look like - http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/2918271...amp;rmvSB=true
Moparts post on them - http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/...-hardtops.html Texas teen 64 Hemi - http://akudanquran.com/news/The-Texas-Te...Racing-History/ Thing of beauty or nightmares? - https://www.google.com/search?q=a864...ZnvUZqygsHM%3A <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bulletpruf</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PLATINUM6BBL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">'64 A864 street Hemi aluminum nose sedan from either Plymouth or Dodge if you're talking strictly Day 2 mods of shifter / shift kit and the 3 T's - tach / tires / tune. They already had 4.56 gears. Take off 4-bolts to uncap the factory "manifold's" and in the right hands would be a hard to beat car. </div></div> Were these production cars that came off the assembly line or were they farmed out? Curious to hear if they are legal in Pure Stock, too. Did a quick Google search and didn't get a definitive answer. Thanks </div></div> </div></div> Thanks for posting the details. Very interesting on the headers; have never seen anything like those. Scott |
Re: Top Day 2 Musclecars?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: old5.0</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'll see your 454 Vega and raise you a 494 Can Am Boss Pinto. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/naughty.gif[/img]
Heads up gets out of control quick. </div></div> And raise you with a Can Am version 480+CI of BBC ZL-! in that same little Vega. Now with only what was available say upto 1971, the BBc would win simply because there wasn't much aftermarket for the big old BOSS! |
Re: Top Day 2 Musclecars?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bulletpruf</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The good thing about it is that anyone who can afford a Pure Stock Drags car should be able to race in Day 2 and Day 3 with a modest outlay of cash. Being competitive in Day 4 could be expensive, but it sure would be fun to watch!
</div></div> The Day 2/3 stuff can get pricey too! IE F.A.S.T. style of cars are FAR from "inexpensive"! Would be fun to try something though!!!! |
Re: Top Day 2 Musclecars?
OK Since I'm an old geezer who grew up in the Detroit area and actually wasted some of my youth on Woodward Ave. I will toss in my 2 cents.
JMHO but the origin of "Day 2" is some 16 year old kid buying his first used car and then trying to make it go faster with as little cash as possible. These cars were called "HOT RODS". The concept of buying an old beater and then adding your own mods, thus causing your old beater to lose its status as a stock car goes back to the late 1940's, and goes on to today. Day 2 could be any car with parts from Jegs or Summit bolted on. Guys with cash have been building sleepers for generations. Just look at what kids are doing to Honda Civics or any other cheep car that can be modified with aftermarket parts. When the gas crisis hit in 1974, big block cars were getting crushed like the Lions with less than two minutes to play. There are so many ways to modify a car that the "bracket racer" is the only fair way to race. Run what you brung, give yourself a tenth, and don't be a sandbagger. Also, in my wasted youth street racing was done from a roll, not from a dig. Hard to do at a track. (Just saying) [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/rolleyes.gif[/img] OK, please return to the regularly scheduled rants. Andy [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif[/img] |
Re: Top Day 2 Musclecars?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ANDY M</div><div class="ubbcode-body">OK Since I'm an old geezer who grew up in the Detroit area and actually wasted some of my youth on Woodward Ave. I will toss in my 2 cents.
JMHO but the origin of "Day 2" is some 16 year old kid buying his first used car and then trying to make it go faster with as little cash as possible. These cars were called "HOT RODS". The concept of buying an old beater and then adding your own mods, thus causing your old beater to lose its status as a stock car goes back to the late 1940's, and goes on to today. Day 2 could be any car with parts from Jegs or Summit bolted on. Guys with cash have been building sleepers for generations. Just look at what kids are doing to Honda Civics or any other cheep car that can be modified with aftermarket parts. When the gas crisis hit in 1974, big block cars were getting crushed like the Lions with less than two minutes to play. There are so many ways to modify a car that the "bracket racer" is the only fair way to race. Run what you brung, give yourself a tenth, and don't be a sandbagger. Also, in my wasted youth street racing was done from a roll, not from a dig. Hard to do at a track. (Just saying) [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/rolleyes.gif[/img] OK, please return to the regularly scheduled rants. Andy [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif[/img] </div></div> Andy - Thanks for the input. I believe the common understanding is that Day 2 is what you did to your new musclecar the day after (hence the Day 2 moniker) you brought it home from the dealership. As I mentioned earlier, I think we know from Pure Stock Drags racing and old magazine articles (although some cars had some "special" factory prep) what cars were fast in factory configuration. What I'm curious about is what were the fastest cars on the street with the usual modifications from that era - headers, sticky tires, carb/intake/cam, etc.? For example -- if you take a car with horrible exhaust (and lousy performance in PS Drags), like the 66-67 Fairlane 427 cars and just add headers, how much does that wake it up? Or something like a 66 Chevy II with an L79 -- how deep into the 12's can you get it with sticky tires, better cam, headers, etc? I'm sure Woodward Ave was quite interesting -- what were some of the faster cars on Woodward back in the day? Thanks Scott |
Re: Top Day 2 Musclecars?
Day 2 bump! Let's talk more about this Day 2 race. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/naughty.gif[/img]
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Re: Top Day 2 Musclecars?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EZ Nova</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: old5.0</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'll see your 454 Vega and raise you a 494 Can Am Boss Pinto. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/naughty.gif[/img]
Heads up gets out of control quick. </div></div> And raise you with a Can Am version 480+CI of BBC ZL-! in that same little Vega. Now with only what was available say upto 1971, the BBc would win simply because there wasn't much aftermarket for the big old BOSS! </div></div> I dunno about all that, brother. Aftermarket, maybe not, but there was plenty of NASCAR take-off and MuscleParts stuff floating around back then. Most of it just wasn't legal in class or viable on a street car. Boss '9 Mustangs may have gotten a reputation (undeserved, IMO) as slugs in stock form, but no circa-1970 BBC head is gonna move air like a Shotgun. Now give those heads 500 cubes in an 1800 pound chassis with wall-to-wall tire, and all the cam, compression and carb I care to throw at it? That ZL-1's gonna have a tough row to hoe. Now we just need the Krysler Krew to show up with a 500 cube Hemi Colt and we got a race! |
Re: Top Day 2 Musclecars?
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Re: Top Day 2 Musclecars?
Yeah, I've seen that thread before.
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