Re: Muscle cars + classic car collecting
 

I love those pop up headlight Toronados! [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif[/img]

Re: Muscle cars + classic car collecting
 

Re: Muscle cars + classic car collecting
 

LA to Vegas would still be a lot of fun in that baby, let alone back in the day. We had a 1968 Sedan Deville back then for Vegas... last year for stacked headlights.

Re: Muscle cars + classic car collecting
 

Wow, Charley, were there any options they didn't get?

Re: Muscle cars + classic car collecting
 

No power windows, locks etc.

Re: Muscle cars + classic car collecting
 

Interesting. Can't wait to see it done.

Re: Muscle cars + classic car collecting
 

----That would be a strong Pontiac done, Charley! My old 64 Grand prix sold for $99,900 about a year and a half ago at a Mecum auction in California to give you an idea what these cars are capable of. Unfortunatly, it was long after I sold it for $50,000......Bill S

Re: Muscle cars + classic car collecting
 

Love these cars!

I am at the moment trying to educate myself on the Toronado and Eldo's transmissions (chain drive?) and how they could handle so much torque (in some cases well over 500 ft-lbs, I think even more that what I thought was the king of the hill, 70 buick GSX!). That's got to be one hell of a chain!

Re: Muscle cars + classic car collecting
 

dug out some pictures of the 300 G interior. It has power seats but the buckets are on a track that goes under the console and you move the driver's seat and thru a cable, the passenger seat does the https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...222_110232.jpg
same. Rear is pictured with console also. the dash is lit up by transformer that causes the speedometer needle to glow and its reflected off the numbers which are porcelain. Carbs were restored by our own Eric https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...222_110320.jpg
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...222_110440.jpg
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...222_131234.jpg

Re: Muscle cars + classic car collecting
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Billohio</div><div class="ubbcode-body">dug out some pictures of the 300 G interior. It has power seats but the buckets are on a track that goes under the console and you move the driver's seat and thru a cable, the passenger seat does the https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...222_110232.jpg
same. Rear is pictured with console also. the dash is lit up by transformer that causes the speedometer needle to glow and its reflected off the numbers which are porcelain. Carbs were restored by our own Eric https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...222_110320.jpg
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...222_110440.jpg
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...222_131234.jpg
</div></div>

Totally outrageous...

Re: Muscle cars + classic car collecting
 

It's amazing anyone could walk into a dealer back in the day and buy anyone of these vehicles. Call me old, but I miss those days. Merry Christmas everyone!

Bill

Re: Muscle cars + classic car collecting
 

Mike Ardito owned that Bonneville. I am a bit surprised that he sold it.

Re: Muscle cars + classic car collecting
 

Mike had it for over 20 years.

Re: Muscle cars + classic car collecting
 

I owned and restored the Silver (Platinum) Bonneville Diego spoke of. While not as loaded up as the one you have, I was a wonderful car. Do you plan on a full resto?

Re: Muscle cars + classic car collecting
 

Nice to see you Ken! :-)

Re: Muscle cars + classic car collecting
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ken Riebel</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I owned and restored the Silver (Platinum) Bonneville Diego spoke of. While not as loaded up as the one you have, I was a wonderful car. Do you plan on a full resto? </div></div>

Yep...I'll probably be very upside down in it but sometimes you just gotta....

Re: Muscle cars + classic car collecting
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Charley Lillard</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No power windows, locks etc. </div></div>

But still plenty seaworthy - nice boat! [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif[/img]

Re: Muscle cars + classic car collecting
 

Hey Charley, contact me at [email protected] if you'd like to obtain an accurate version of a 1966 window sticker.
That appears to be a PHS version you have, lots of issues on that one. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif[/img]

Mike

Re: Muscle cars + classic car collecting
 

... This is pretty neat... [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/3gears.gif[/img]


1964 Buick riviera - Original 425 V8 car

[img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif[/img]

Re: Muscle cars + classic car collecting
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: StealthBird</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey Charley, contact me at [email protected] if you'd like to obtain an accurate version of a 1966 window sticker.
That appears to be a PHS version you have, lots of issues on that one. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif[/img]

Mike </div></div>

I like the PHS one. There is no mistaking it for a real one...

Re: Muscle cars + classic car collecting
 

did some of the Rivieras have hide away headlights? was it an option or a year made deal?

Re: Muscle cars + classic car collecting
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Billohio</div><div class="ubbcode-body">did some of the Rivieras have hide away headlights? was it an option or a year made deal? </div></div>

Rivs had hidden headlights from 1965-69.

Re: Muscle cars + classic car collecting
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Charley Lillard</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: StealthBird</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey Charley, contact me at [email protected] if you'd like to obtain an accurate version of a 1966 window sticker.
That appears to be a PHS version you have, lots of issues on that one. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif[/img]

Mike </div></div>

I like the PHS one. There is no mistaking it for a real one... </div></div>

Charley, the PHS ones are very inaccurate, and are easily discernible from an original window sticker.

Here's an original 1966 window sticker for comparison. You can see the font on the PHS version is wrong, the line spacing and character spacing are wrong, and it's missing details like the tax line at the bottom. Also, look at the boxes just below the area around the &quot;MANUFACTURER'S SUGGESTED RETAIL PRICE&quot; line verses the original. PHS used a 1968 form for your 1966. The closer you look, the more differences you'll see, like the &quot;FINAL ASSEMBLY POINT&quot; being in the wrong place, etc.

We do extremely accurate and detailed window stickers for show winning, concourse level Pontiacs. Much of our business comes from people that already had a PHS window sticker, but they want an accurate one with all the correct details.

For more info, and to see feedback people have posted, please take a look at my website in my signature. We had 8 Pontiacs displaying one of our window stickers at the MCACN show this year, as well as having them on Pontiacs that have won POCI and GTOAA top level awards. Among some of the rare cars we've done window stickers for are 5 RAII Firebirds, a real 1969 TA convertible, 31 Judges and GTO's (1969-1971), and I just finished one for a Scott Tiemann 1965 GTO. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Muscle cars + classic car collecting
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Billohio</div><div class="ubbcode-body">did some of the Rivieras have hide away headlights? was it an option or a year made deal? </div></div>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d612coV5AVA

Re: Muscle cars + classic car collecting
 

The only way I would think those more accurate window stickers are ok, would be if there is something in the paper stock that makes it obvious it is a fake. Maybe on the back, there is a light stamping of reproduction, that does not bleed to the front.
Or make the overall size 5-10% off from what a correct one is. Nobody would generally tell that difference at a car show, but when authenticated, it becomes an easy detection method. Right now, I am not a fan of what I am seeing being done. The non PHS one looks too real.

Re: Muscle cars + classic car collecting
 

I think there's a misunderstanding here. The example I posted above IS an original 1966 window sticker compared to a PHS reproduction, not to one of our reproductions. I was merely using this as an example to show that PHS ones are inaccurate, in response to the earlier comment that &quot;PHS ones look correct&quot;.

The window stickers we make http://www.musclecarfilms.com/PontiacWindowSticker.html simply have all the details that the PHS ones lack. Our reproductions could NEVER be confused with an original window sticker. We're simply bringing a better, more accurate reproduction to the hobby. It's no different than when poor quality, inaccurate reproduction parts are offered, and it sometimes takes years before someone steps up and makes a better, more accurate reproduction. That's what we did. Pontiac people have been disappointed with PHS versions, and we're raising the bar for quality and accuracy. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Muscle cars + classic car collecting
 

Back on the 'big car' topic, I was at my neighbor's house yesterday (original hemi cuda owner), and he definitely likes the big cars. I shot a few pics of what he is up to. He is helping me with an engine for a vette.

What is suprising to me, is that I think GM maybe copied some ideas from Chrysler when I look at his car. His 57? desoto has a <span style="font-style: italic">subframe just like a camaro or chevelle</span>, and it has a VIN stamp right by the heaterbox. I dont think GM or ford had a subrame concept in practice this early.


http://i358.photobucket.com/albums/o...psj2j4hinw.jpg
http://i358.photobucket.com/albums/o...psxh2xbdvw.jpg
http://i358.photobucket.com/albums/o...psvqcj7ggp.jpg
http://i358.photobucket.com/albums/o...psouwgge21.jpg

Re: Muscle cars + classic car collecting
 

my 61 300G has a subframe. The rear attaches in a trough.I was surprised a big car was built like this. I am about ready to pull mine from under the body and get it cleaned up

Re: Muscle cars + classic car collecting
 

Yeah I have to wonder if Chrysler had a patent on the front subframe and GM was eyeing it to do past a 7 yr timeframe when a patent expires. Sorry to have included the chevelle in my earlier post, I can only think of the camaro as having a front subframe at the moment.

I got the thumbs up/sideways from the wife on buying the triple black project eldo below. Plan would be to pitch the front wheel drive trans, and run a corvette torque tube right through the car (not too big of a hole in fire wall, structure of the body stays intact), and put the 84 and up corvette rear end (subframe) in it. That idea is not mine, it came from a friend. He said to put a paddle shifter in it, I would want a 4 speed on the floor, linking up to the corvette trans in the back. She definitely likes the looks of the triple black eldo all done, so thats good for me at the moment, to get my big car fix.

http://i358.photobucket.com/albums/o...psksql2cxc.jpg

Re: Muscle cars + classic car collecting
 

Sounds like a wild project, cool.

Re: Muscle cars + classic car collecting
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: black69</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
What is suprising to me, is that I think GM maybe copied some ideas from Chrysler when I look at his car. His 57? desoto has a <span style="font-style: italic">subframe just like a camaro or chevelle</span>, and it has a VIN stamp right by the heaterbox. I dont think GM or ford had a subrame concept in practice this early.
</div></div>

From the pics, that's a 1961 Chrysler, which is a Unibody. Chrysler Corp started with this in 1960 (save Imperial, which joined in '61, I believe).

Re: Muscle cars + classic car collecting
 

Agreed, its a unibody with front subframe. GM appears to not have done this in a similiar configuration until the camaro and nova, 7 yrs later. If you are a GM guy, you got to give props to Chrysler showing it could be done first.

Re: Muscle cars + classic car collecting
 

Bob whats your friend doing with that car? the firewall heater box hole is alot bigger than my Chrysler, did it have air? Looks like hes done some suspension work too

Re: Muscle cars + classic car collecting
 

He wants the firewall clean and flat and thus mounted the master cylinder sideways under the dash, as well as the modern new airconditioning unit. He hacked out alot of what was there, so who knows if the car originally had air, I doubt it did. He will just weld in a flat piece to cover all that stuff.

He did say, if he had it to do over again, he would have put the original subframe to the side, and adapt a camaro subframe to get coil overs and disk brakes, but its too late now as he has put that on the original.

Re: Muscle cars + classic car collecting
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: black69</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> If you are a GM guy, you got to give props to Chrysler showing it could be done first.
</div></div>

Wasn't the Corvair Unibody?

Citroen did it in 1934. Giving props to Chrysler would be a mistake.

Re: Muscle cars + classic car collecting
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 442w30</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: black69</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> If you are a GM guy, you got to give props to Chrysler showing it could be done first.
</div></div>

Wasn't the Corvair Unibody?

Citroen did it in 1934. Giving props to Chrysler would be a mistake. </div></div>

Yes the corvair is a unibody, it also used a rear subframe and carried a light little engine, an all this happened in 1960, same time as Chrysler. My point was as far as mounting a large heavy V8 engine using a substantial subframe to a unibody shell, <span style="font-style: italic">out in front</span>, appears to me atleast to have been done by Chrysler first in 1960. I also dont think the rear subframe of a corvair had to work as hard supporting any body components, if at all.

GM would have had no other example to look at when they designed the Camaro to hold a 396/427, other than a Chrysler. I could be wrong. I really never knew this myself, until the other day, and I do have a Camaro [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Muscle cars + classic car collecting
 

1961 saw the Oldsmobile F85 unibody, Pontiac Tempest/Lemans, Buick Skylark, all V8s. All with removable front sub frames.

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps22kmx7rj.jpg

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r...psbshwl8kh.jpg

Re: Muscle cars + classic car collecting
 

Cool! I didn't know that. Looks like alternatives to a full frame for a front engine car were all taking form in 60-61.
Btw, that engine you have is wicked!

Re: Muscle cars + classic car collecting
 

[img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif[/img]