Re: 69 Camaro BB blacked out panel?
 

From now on ...it looks like the % of gloss depends on the production date ...because of the heat factor .

Re: 69 Camaro BB blacked out panel?
 

More pics of the low mile 68 I took at MCACN 2010. Maybe someone else took pics of the rockers.https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...3-img_1769.jpg
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...4-img_1772.jpg
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...5-img_1787.jpg
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...6-img_1797.jpg

Re: 69 Camaro BB blacked out panel?
 

I believe Phil is correct on the temp/humidity part. I think those blacked out parts were not buffed. That will make it look grainy and diffuse the light. The laquer will not look smooth, or shine unless it's buffed. Phil, is there a write up in the paint process the either includes, or excludes buffing the rockers, or tail pan? I'm thinking too that they would want to mitigate the chances of buff throughs which would result in rework issues. ie: shoot it, and send it. FWIW

Re: 69 Camaro BB blacked out panel?
 

The purpose of buffing was dirt removal prior to the next coat and the next oven reflow.

Over buffing was not desired as a "cut through" was a repair job later at Fisher at a set off point.

Heat and reflow was the key to gloss.

Re: 69 Camaro BB blacked out panel?
 

Good discussion. Thanks guys and thanks Phil for the explanation.

Re: 69 Camaro BB blacked out panel?
 

Finally got the chance to read thru the entire discussion.. This is probably the best discussion & conclusion to the finish of the blacked-out rear tail panel I've read.
FWIW, When I restored my car 4 years ago I had the blacked-out tail panel on my 70 Camaro painted at a 20% reduction or 80% of full gloss and it looks very close to the pictures Charlie posted above.

Re: 69 Camaro BB blacked out panel?
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Charley Lillard</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Show me a good survivor with satin tail panel. I am basing my opinion on looking at survivors. I believe memories can get clouded. </div></div>

http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=2458.165

From the CRG post #165, 5K mile car. I think Lillard has been rubbing his panel to much [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/naughty.gif[/img]

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...rear_panel.jpg

Re: 69 Camaro BB blacked out panel?
 

Gotta admit, based on that photo I'd have to say I'm becoming a believer that they were not always painted full gloss black. Mainly because if they were full gloss why would they even bother painting them at all on Tuxedo Black cars? Definitely 2 different levels of gloss there if that car is guaranteed all original paint.

Re: 69 Camaro BB blacked out panel?
 

This is from my 12k org mile survivor L78 that I sold Jpe D. in 2007, Charley you took photo's of the tail panel at Carlisle in 2004. I do not have a closeup. The second photo is on the trailer headed for Texas.


https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...6-dscn1291.jpg
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...7-dscn1292.jpg

Re: 69 Camaro BB blacked out panel?
 

I don't know about the tail panel color, but that's an awesome car.

Re: 69 Camaro BB blacked out panel?
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: camarojoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Gotta admit, based on that photo I'd have to say I'm becoming a believer that they were not always painted full gloss black. Mainly because if they were full gloss why would they even bother painting them at all on Tuxedo Black cars? Definitely 2 different levels of gloss there if that car is guaranteed all original paint. </div></div>
My understanding was that black was one of the exceptions to the tail panel black out? If it is definitely original, that's pretty interesting to say the least.

From CRG:
&quot;Black-out Paint Applications
Certain first-generation Camaro models had semi-gloss black-out paint applied to the body to influence the appearance. There were two types: a &quot;ground-effect&quot; black-out applied to the rocker-panel/body-sill area for certain exterior trim options and a blacked-out tailpan applied to SS-396 cars.

Body sill black-out paint was applied to Z22 (RS) cars in 1967 and 1968 and to Z21 (style trim) and Z22 (RS) in 1969. But there were several body colors that were simply just too dark for this paint scheme to be effective and for these colors, the body sill black-out paint was omitted. Additionally, the body sill black-out was omitted for the 1969 Z11 Indy Pace Car convertible trim package and the 1969 Z10 coupe trim package. A Chevrolet Product Bulletin dated 2-4-69 describes the Z11 (Pace Car trim package) package and includes this instruction: &quot;Body sill to be painted white instead of black.&quot; Although no instructions have been found for the Z10 coupe, the intent would have been the same.

There was also a paint color exception for the SS-396 tailpan black-out, but it was limited to black vehicles and the Z11 and Z10. Black SS-396 cars would not have received the (semi-gloss) blacked-out tailpans. But it should be noted that a few original paint black SS-396's have been observed with blacked-out tailpanels - the paint difference is only visible at the paint tape line.&quot;

Re: 69 Camaro BB blacked out panel?
 

My guess is that it's not really all original paint.

Re: 69 Camaro BB blacked out panel?
 

----It was an awesome car, Joe! I did a bit of basic clean-up on it in the garage-mahal when it hit Texas and was amazed at its condition. One of the most untouched, low mileage Camaros I have ever seen.......Bill S

----I'm now seeing a few posts in between mine and the post on the red L78. Just to be clear,,, my comments were for the red L78

Re: 69 Camaro BB blacked out panel?
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: olredalert</div><div class="ubbcode-body">----It was an awesome car, Joe! I did a bit of basic clean-up on it in the garage-mahal when it hit Texas and was amazed at its condition. One of the most untouched, low mileage Camaros I have ever seen.......Bill S

----I'm now seeing a few posts in between mine and the post on the red L78. Just to be clear,,, my comments were for the red L78 </div></div>
Even in pictures you can tell what a beauty it is.

Re: 69 Camaro BB blacked out panel?
 

Joe if you are talking about the garnet red L78, you guessed wrong, it was all org paint

Re: 69 Camaro BB blacked out panel?
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 69L78</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Joe if you are talking about the garnet red L78, you guessed wrong, it was all org paint </div></div>
Not talking about the red car... That one was the one I said was awesome. One of those cars that prove to me that the 69 Camaro is the coolest looking Chevy ever made. The flat black tail panel on the tuxedo black car is the one I was guessing could have been done after the fact. I've never seen that car so I guess I should just keep my yap shut. Carry on...

Re: 69 Camaro BB blacked out panel?
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: m22mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Charley Lillard</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Show me a good survivor with satin tail panel. I am basing my opinion on looking at survivors. I believe memories can get clouded. </div></div>

http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=2458.165

From the CRG post #165, 5K mile car. I think Lillard has been rubbing his panel to much [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/naughty.gif[/img]

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...rear_panel.jpg
</div></div>
That almost looks like it is has a different pigment to it versus being satin or flat. It still has a gloss to it that is much glossier than what people are spraying as semi gloss.

Re: 69 Camaro BB blacked out panel?
 

Several years ago, Mike Gale had his original paint Black/red stripe 69 Camaro RS Baldwin Motion at MCACN. I failed to get pictures of his rear panel. You could clearly see a tape line with the trunk open, and the paint looked differant. Maybe someone else got some shots of his car ?
Another thing to consider, besides what Phil pointed out about the variations in temperature at the time of this blackout, is the number of times a car was washed, even the continued cleaning with a wet towel over time may add to the gloss level.

NEXT [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/scholar.gif[/img]

Re: 69 Camaro BB blacked out panel?
 

Mike there's another black car that also has the same contrasting black applied to the tail panel( Bob's car a member on this site). It is my belief that blacked out tail panels &amp; rockers were 70-80% gloss(a different formula from black exterior paint used). As many have pointed out, there are variables that may have contributed to the degree of gloss, such as temperature and polishing over the years. I've owned and inspected many car with blacked out tail panels and rockers and that is my conclusion.

OK, here's one, call it what you will, but certainly not gloss!

Lol...you idiot. You see your reflection but say “no gloss”.

OK moron! if you think that is the same GLOSS black they applied to the full exterior of cars then were done! (BTW I left the T off and meant not gloss as in full gloss) My point was to show an original example and how poorly it reflects. In fact I believe I identified the picture file as 65% gloss. This example is pretty dull because it hasn't been polished, which overtime will increase the reflective properties.

. As for the other variable that cause variations in paint such as temperature and humidity those should affect all paint not just the black out areas. In my opinion and the examples I have seen I'm convinced the blackout was not intended to be full gloss PERIOD.

Im curious what the Super Car Workshop, Frank Arone, Mike Slaughter, and other highly awarded painters are using for black formulas...???? Nobody will share their "secret sauce" recipe's

Here we go again.......:CharleySucks:

So I’m the Moron because you spelled a word wrong. I believe the argument is if the tail panel was painted a satin or flat like I see many restorations or gloss and the pic you showed furthers my opinion that it was a gloss finish. That does not mean it has to be body color gloss black. You see a REFLECTION ! I don’t care what % you assign to it. :-)

This is what I posted on 12/15/15 post #59

Re: 69 Camaro BB blacked out panel?
Mike there's another black car that also has the same contrasting black applied to the tail panel( Bob's car a member on this site). It is my belief that blacked out tail panels &amp; rockers were 70-80% gloss(a different formula from black exterior paint used). As many have pointed out, there are variables that may have contributed to the degree of gloss, such as temperature and polishing over the years. I've owned and inspected many car with blacked out tail panels and rockers and that is my conclusion.
__________________
Steve Shauger
The Supercar Registry
www.yenko.net

Vintage Certification™ , Providing Recognition to Unrestored Muscle Cars. Website:
www.vintagecertification.com

For those of you who don't know, Charley and I we are very good friends and he's like the little brother I'd like to beat the crap out of just cause ! :CharleySucks:

Still not glossy :naughty:

Black-out Paint Applications

Certain first-generation Camaro models had semi-gloss black-out paint applied to the body to influence the appearance. There were two types: a "ground-effect" black-out applied to the rocker-panel/body-sill area for certain exterior trim options and a blacked-out tailpan applied to SS-396 cars.

Body sill black-out paint was applied to Z22 (RS) cars in 1967 and 1968 and to Z21 (style trim) and Z22 (RS) in 1969. But there were several body colors that were simply just too dark for this paint scheme to be effective and for these colors, the body sill black-out paint was omitted. Additionally, the body sill black-out was omitted for the 1969 Z11 Indy Pace Car convertible trim package and the 1969 Z10 coupe trim package. A Chevrolet Product Bulletin dated 2-4-69 describes the Z11 (Pace Car trim package) package and includes this instruction: "Body sill to be painted white instead of black." Although no instructions have been found for the Z10 coupe, the intent would have been the same.

There was also a paint color exception for the SS-396 tailpan black-out, but it was limited to black vehicles and the Z11 and Z10. Black SS-396 cars would not have received the (semi-gloss) blacked-out tailpans. But it should be noted that a few original paint black SS-396's have been observed with blacked-out tailpanels - the paint difference is only visible at the paint tape line.

http://www.camaros.org/exterior.shtml#BlackoutPaint

Although there are sill blackout exceptions due to dark exterior colors, I have inspected original paint cars with the following colors burnished brown, fathom green, tahoe turquoise and cordovan maroon on the exception list, but their sills are blacked out. These could be one-offs, perhaps work instructions weren't followed or changes were made to the exception list. Here are a few pics of my orig paint tahoe turquoise car.

I probably saved them from this thread, but here are a couple of my favorite pics that show how the tail panel black was flatter than what most consider to be gloss black. Yes, there are different levels of gloss... The notes I have on the black car is that it was a 5k mile survivor. The rest of the pics are also from survivor cars. The boots I wore in the Marines were flat as flat can be leaving the factory. Once I spit polished them you could see your reflection.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4517/...da8853d5_z.jpg

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4575/...346be0b1_z.jpg




And a few pics of the rockers that I've saved:

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4529/...4c7eb146_z.jpg

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4555/...9bdb027c_z.jpg

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4540/...bc9ba310_z.jpg

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5827/...d7ebfda9_z.jpg

I am pretty sure the rear tail pan and RS blackout are 30 percent gloss (satin).

:)