Re: Old style cragar ss vs the new style ss
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 68ys8030</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I looked for like 6 months for a set of 15x4 cragars for my 69. One night I was on my local craigslist and typed in &quot;cragar&quot;. There they were.. 15x4 cragars 5x4.750 still in the boxes!
got em for 200 bucks in dusty old boxes. The funny think is they were lised on there for quite a while and nobody bought them. LUCK ! I have newer 15x10s on the rear. unilug. I think the newer 15x10s have a step in the hoop that the older ones don't so I'm still looking for a set of old 15x10s. Love the cragars! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...garagerear.jpg
</div></div>

Your car is badass dude! I was reading one of the magazines with your car in it, love it man!

Re: Old style cragar ss vs the new style ss
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Day2_69Z</div><div class="ubbcode-body">yep, but I also have Brand New non Blemished wheels to Go Fast with and have piece of mind.
Plus, I hate the silver paint in the lug area....terrible then...terrible now !.
The new wheels are quite nice...not perfect like a &quot;Paul's Chrome&quot; for $1200 -$1500 ...2 wheels. + the cost of wheels </div></div> Who's Paul?

Re: Old style cragar ss vs the new style ss
 

Pauls Chrome. he should be on the internet.

Re: Old style cragar ss vs the new style ss
 

Paul's Chrome in Mars, Pa.
One of the Finest (and most expensive) Chrome shops in the U.S.
They restore, rechrome Anything from potmetal, diecast, stamped or spring steel. The Cragars , TT's , Appliance, ET wheels with a Chrome steel hoop and aluminum hub centers can be &quot;restored//rechromed&quot; ....
they also will Chrome any Non Porous aluminum wheels, anodized and stainless steel such as window mldgs.
Some members cars you see here and National Magazine Features and High End Builds feature Paul's Chrome.

Re: Old style cragar ss vs the new style ss
 

Be cautious on replating Cragars. I had 2 15x4's replated by Pauls and when placed with my 15x10 NOS rears the chrome did not match. The original chrome from the 60's and 70's was hexevelant and very few shops use this chrome as it has been nearly banned by the EPA

Pauls does very nice work the problem is his chrome has a brownish cast to it (Pauls admit to this) and makes the chrome look &quot;dark&quot;. Every chrome shop has a slightly different color..Advanced Plating in TN appears bluish.

The original Cragar chrome is Hexavelant and is a pure white/clear..the problem is very few chrome shops use hexavelant due to EPA. I found a shop out in CA that redid the wheels by Pauls in correct hexavelant..it did not cost much because ll they did was strip the chrome and left the base

Of course of you have all 4 wheels done that is different...though you still might see the brownish cast in certain light.

A friend of mine restored an famous old chopper and use 2 diff co'-use Pauls for the Columbus Springer front end-chrome did not match..He ended up replating the front end (used Custom Chrome out of Medina Oh)


Again nothing wrong with Pauls he does great work but if you have chrome from other co's say on your engine compartment you are going to see the difference in chrome &quot;color&quot;

Re: Old style cragar ss vs the new style ss
 

original 14x6 NOS sometime late 70's..with painted lug nut pocket

Re: Old style cragar ss vs the new style ss
 

early 15x10's nos with correct rim kickup Steve above with the 69 Camaro mentioned-See 15x10 on Steves camaro for difference. These do not have painted lug nut pocket

Re: Old style cragar ss vs the new style ss
 

15x4's with correct &quot;white chrome&quot; hexevelant chrome from the shop in Ca.

Re: Old style cragar ss vs the new style ss
 

NOS 14x6 with original painted lug nut pocket..good side view.

Re: Old style cragar ss vs the new style ss
 

White top what's the name of the shop you used in California for the correct chrome?

Re: Old style cragar ss vs the new style ss
 

I just want to say thanks again for the great replies and info on this subject! Made it that much easier to find the correct wheel for that era! Especially whitetop for all the knowledge on this! Thanks guys!

Re: Old style cragar ss vs the new style ss
 

I thought the older ones had a different hoop ! Thanks whitetop !

Re: Old style cragar ss vs the new style ss
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Resurrected69ss</div><div class="ubbcode-body">White top what's the name of the shop you used in California for the correct chrome? </div></div>

Give me a day or two to dig it out. Pauls Chrome gave me their number.

Re: Old style cragar ss vs the new style ss
 

Wow..Whitetop is on Top of It.

I just compared my New Cragars to my NOS Bumper and my Rechromed bumper (by M&amp;P) and the Cragars are Super Brite, a whitish clear cast , the NOS. darker and without depth, the rechrome seems Deep, brite and yet not as whiteish....... The wheels and rechrome look great... the NOS is asking to be Rechromed !

Re: Old style cragar ss vs the new style ss
 

I've seen several (okay- at least 3) different hoops on the straight lug wheels. Both these below are 14x6 wheels. One is a 12/66 wheel and the other is 8/71 I guess.

http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/w...psfe5b844d.jpg

http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/w...ps4b0b501c.jpg

Though these two are the same offset, I suspect there were a variety based on offset.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 68ys8030</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I thought the older ones had a different hoop ! Thanks whitetop ! </div></div>

Re: Old style cragar ss vs the new style ss
 

Just a side note: Paul's Chrome was started by my business partner's good friend. I guess Paul sold the business but kept the building and name and continues to get rent and other income from Paul's Chrome nowadays. Interesting that they don't do that bright white chrome. So, which looks best, today's current brand new Cragars that have the bright white chrome or older ones that are rechromed? Or, does it depend on how well the chroming process is done on the older ones?

Re: Old style cragar ss vs the new style ss
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: [email protected]</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When we judge Day-2 at MCACN they tell us to try to stay with a 1 year or so time frame on the Day-2 parts. Without dismounting the tire from the wheel and looking at the date its tough to see if that unilug/straight lug wheel is within the one year or so time frame. The flat spokes are a dead give-a-way. I personally tend to go a little further in the process because those Day-2 parts took a couple years at times to reach the cars back then. Some Speed Shop parts that were originally on my nova did not come out to the early 70's or so. Torquer intake manifolds , Cragar Super Tricks, tall valve covers etc. I even believe header mufflers were a product of the early 70's. Its a tough call on the time frame of these old parts. </div></div>

^^^^^X2^^^^^ Thanks for the input Sam!!!

Re: Old style cragar ss vs the new style ss
 

14x6 &amp; 14x10

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...psc4669725.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...ps673e7080.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...ragarFront.jpg

Re: Old style cragar ss vs the new style ss
 

Love the look and the painted lug nut pocket
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cook_dw</div><div class="ubbcode-body">14x6 &amp; 14x10




http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...ragarFront.jpg

</div></div>

Re: Old style cragar ss vs the new style ss
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: markinnaples</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just a side note: Paul's Chrome was started by my business partner's good friend. I guess Paul sold the business but kept the building and name and continues to get rent and other income from Paul's Chrome nowadays. Interesting that they don't do that bright white chrome. So, which looks best, today's current brand new Cragars that have the bright white chrome or older ones that are rechromed? Or, does it depend on how well the chroming process is done on the older ones? </div></div>

The 15x4's I had above are the correct Cragar hexevelant chrome and match the current Cragar chrome---though I should say factory Cragar chrome was thin and not as shiny as the current Cragar chrome. I would suspect Cragar is having their chrome done offshore and the wheels are welded together in the US.

I know Paul told me only a handful of chrome co's were still doing hexavelant chrome and this was 8-10 years ago.

Re: Old style cragar ss vs the new style ss
 

Whitetop was the name of the place Bolton classic wheels? I called a place in California and they recommended me to him he does hexevalant chroming.

Re: Old style cragar ss vs the new style ss
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Resurrected69ss</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Whitetop was the name of the place Bolton classic wheels? I called a place in California and they recommended me to him he does hexevalant chroming. </div></div>

That was not the name but it could have changed a name..the place I sent my wheels they did chrome plating on wheels I think mostly from manufacturers.
I will try to find the info.

Re: Old style cragar ss vs the new style ss
 

You are the man Dave. Start writing the book!

Re: Old style cragar ss vs the new style ss
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: whitetop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would suspect Cragar is having their chrome done offshore and the wheels are welded together in the US.</div></div> In 2006, Cragar started casting their aluminum centers and wheels &quot;offshore&quot; but welding the centers into the rims in the USA. However, they are now switching back to all made in USA (if the scuttlebutt I've heard is correct).


I called Stockton Wheel Service (Stockton, CA) in early 2010 about re-chroming a pair of Cragars, and IIRC they were still using the hexavalent chroming process at that time. That was almost 5 years ago, so they may have switched to trivalent by now.

When you re-chrome a Cragar, do you have to cut the center out of the rim shell before chroming?

Re: Old style cragar ss vs the new style ss
 

I tried to find the name of the co that did the hexevalent but could not find it..though they may have a new name.. From google it appears hexavalent has all but been banned in CA. I have the co's name at home somewhere. Yes you have to cut out the center and after chroming have it welded back together.

I had mine lathed out by a competant shop and then had the steel on the spokes built up by weld and then machined back down for a tight fit but not too tight-slightly snug. make sure you have the chroming co cover the steel tabs or the two pieces will never go back together and they can't make the chrome on the rim to thick. on one wheel I had to grind down the chrome on the backside of the steel rim to make it fit but you would never see this once on the car.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TheNovaMan</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: whitetop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would suspect Cragar is having their chrome done offshore and the wheels are welded together in the US.</div></div> In 2006, Cragar started casting their aluminum centers and wheels &quot;offshore&quot; but welding the centers into the rims in the USA. However, they are now switching back to all made in USA (if the scuttlebutt I've heard is correct).


I called Stockton Wheel Service (Stockton, CA) in early 2010 about re-chroming a pair of Cragars, and IIRC they were still using the hexavalent chroming process at that time. That was almost 5 years ago, so they may have switched to trivalent by now.

When you re-chrome a Cragar, do you have to cut the center out of the rim shell before chroming? </div></div>

Re: Old style cragar ss vs the new style ss
 

Here is the co that did these in hexevalant:
Impressions Plating &amp; Polishing
1223 N. Batavia St
Orange CA 92867
714-639-1371

They replated the wheels I had done by Pauls. I think it was $250-275 per wheel but all they did was strip off the chrome but kept Pauls underlying copper and nickel so not much buffing or prep work. I liked their work but by the cap they buffed the nickel down a tad too much and the copper was slightly showing through ..maybe a 1/4 x 1/4 area so no biggie.



Again NOTHING wrong with Pauls..I have had many items done by him.outstanding work but it is not Cragar chrome. Pauls shipped the wheels to me and as soon as I opened the box my heart sank because of the brownish tint.

Re: Old style cragar ss vs the new style ss
 

Not knowing was killing me, so I called Stockton Wheel. When they re-chrome a Cragar, they cut the center out of the rim shell, send both pieces out for re-chroming, and then weld the center back into the original rim shell. I'm not sure how they avoid destroying the rim shell, but they claim they can reuse the original. It turns out that's a very good thing, because they can't get 15x4 rim shells anymore. I asked the man if he knew whether the chrome shop they use does hexavalent or trivalent, and he did not know. Right now, it runs about $325/wheel to have them do it. That sounds suspiciously inexpensive to me.

I also called Advanced Plating. They don't do wheels, but they do use hexavalent chromium in their baths [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Old style cragar ss vs the new style ss
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TheNovaMan</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> but they claim they can reuse the original. It turns out that's a very good thing, because they can't get 15x4 rim shells anymore. </div></div>

My original were used. Again after lathing the wheels apart some of the steel tab is going to be gone so you have to have a welder build back the steel tab and machine or lathe it down to specs as it would have been before Cragar welded them together originally

Re: Old style cragar ss vs the new style ss
 

The wheels I had redone are a 100 times better than original Cragar quality. One wheel had the tire valve 3/4 across the opening between the spokes-not lined up properly and several places had poor casting quality( small air pockets in the aluminum) or indented bevels, gouge marks that were originally just plated over from the original Cragar plate job and Pauls fixed that up.

70's Cragar wheel quality was horrendous.

Re: Old style cragar ss vs the new style ss
 

[quote=TheNovaMan]Not knowing was killing me, so I called Stockton Wheel. When they re-chrome a Cragar, they cut the center out of the rim shell, send both pieces out for re-chroming, and then weld the center back into the original rim shell. I'm not sure how they avoid destroying the rim shell, but they claim they can reuse the original. It turns out that's a very good thing, because they can't get 15x4 rim shells anymore. I asked the man if he knew whether the chrome shop they use does hexavalent or trivalent, and he did not know. Right now, it runs about $325/wheel to have them do it. That sounds suspiciously inexpensive to me.

I have had several pairs of Cragars done by Stockton and have been happy with the result. I do not know the type of chrome that was used but could post a photo of the replated wheels later if anyone is interested. I know the rims were taken apart before chroming as I was warned that they could break prior to starting the process.

Re: Old style cragar ss vs the new style ss
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: whitetop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here is the co that did these in hexevalant:
Impressions Plating &amp; Polishing
1223 N. Batavia St
Orange CA 92867
714-639-1371

They replated the wheels I had done by Pauls. I think it was $250-275 per wheel but all they did was strip off the chrome but kept Pauls underlying copper and nickel so not much buffing or prep work. I liked their work but by the cap they buffed the nickel down a tad too much and the copper was slightly showing through ..maybe a 1/4 x 1/4 area so no biggie.



Again NOTHING wrong with Pauls..I have had many items done by him.outstanding work but it is not Cragar chrome. Pauls shipped the wheels to me and as soon as I opened the box my heart sank because of the brownish tint. </div></div>

Awesome thanks Dave!!

Re: Old style cragar ss vs the new style ss
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: whitetop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My original were used. Again after lathing the wheels apart some of the steel tab is going to be gone so you have to have a welder build back the steel tab and machine or lathe it down to specs as it would have been before Cragar welded them together originally</div></div> What I can't understand is how they can reuse the rim after they've cut so much metal out of it to free the center. Does a 4&quot; wide wheel become 3 13/16&quot; wide?

Re: Old style cragar ss vs the new style ss
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TheNovaMan</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: whitetop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My original were used. Again after lathing the wheels apart some of the steel tab is going to be gone so you have to have a welder build back the steel tab and machine or lathe it down to specs as it would have been before Cragar welded them together originally</div></div> What I can't understand is how they can reuse the rim after they've cut so much metal out of it to free the center. Does a 4&quot; wide wheel become 3 13/16&quot; wide? </div></div>

You lathe cut from the backside of the wheel along the 5 tab points it is welded to the rim. The outer steel rim is not damaged. What you are cutting is the weld and part of the tabs-why the tabs need to be built up with weld afterward and then lathed down

Re: Old style cragar ss vs the new style ss
 

Aaaah, now I understand. Thanks.

Re: Old style cragar ss vs the new style ss
 

Try Atlas Plating in Houston, TX. They replated my Cragar 15x4 without cutting apart. Excellent job for $250.00 each

1967 4K

Re: Old style cragar ss vs the new style ss
 

Anyone have a recommendation for a silver paint to dust the lug area? Where should I mask?

Thanks!

Re: Old style cragar ss vs the new style ss
 

Whitetop posted the type of paint here:

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/ubbt...335&amp;page=6

Re: Old style cragar ss vs the new style ss
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: scuncio</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anyone have a recommendation for a silver paint to dust the lug area? Where should I mask?

Thanks! </div></div>

Here is a pic of my 14x6 nos..I have seem some painted very lightly and some so heavy the paint ran..depended on the employee and their attitude that day.

The lug nut pocket is lightly fogged..

Re: Old style cragar ss vs the new style ss
 

I took some pictures to show some of the differences between the old (1971) Cragar SS center caps without the &quot;R&quot; (registered trademark) and a newer (2004) SS cap.

The &quot;R&quot; is the most obvious but there are other subtle differences......including the retaining washer/screw.

Kurt

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...6-dsc00937.jpg

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...7-dsc00938.jpg

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...8-dsc00940.jpg

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...9-dsc00941.jpg

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...0-dsc00944.jpg

Re: Old style cragar ss vs the new style ss
 

And made where -- UGH!