Re: Camaro History On Display Tomorrow Evening
 

Absolutely amazing car Phil. I have a couple of questions and I am in no way being critical at all. I notice in the engine compartment pic that top screw hose clamps are used on the heater hoses. I think spring clamps were still being used back then and continued to be used thru 1968. Is that the correct location for the fuel filter? Admittedly I am used to seeing Camaro's with V8's rather than inline 6's so that is probably the correct fuel filter since you describe the owner as very exacting. It just looks kind of aftermarket. Another question I have is why didn't the General use a flashier color with the debut of this car? The gold is beautiful but it just doesn't jump out like a red or yellow ETC. I also wonder why they didn't use a 327 rather than the 6 and an automatic transmission rather 3 on the tree? Who was the target audience back in the day when the car debuted? This was GM's 3 year late answer to the Mustang and I just wonder who they were tying to appeal to.
Thanks for posting the pics of this historic piece of history.

Dave

Re: Camaro History On Display Tomorrow Evening
 

I would've thought "re-body" if that roll cage mount plate was missing from the trunk floor. Maybe I'm in the minority but I really enjoy seeing small scars from the life of an old car. Old roll bar mounts, dented floor pan from a driveshaft explosion, trimmed 1/4 panel lips for big slicks, etc. Just like a human body, every scar has a story behind it.

Re: Camaro History On Display Tomorrow Evening
 

I read all 22 pages on Team Camaro and find it funny that some people are so stuck up that they look past the fact it is still left and that someone took the time to save the car for all to enjoy. I LOVE the welds left in the trunk. They are character marks from the cars past. When we restore a car we usually leave something behind from its past.

Re: Camaro History On Display Tomorrow Evening
 

I love the car and the fact that it was saved also. If it were me and I had chosen to take on the task I think I would have tried to duplicate exactly how it left the factory and that would have meant no clues like the trunk floor. Having 250K into it is hard to believe unless the purchase price was a really high amount. Pretty cool piece of history no matter how it is restored.

Re: Camaro History On Display Tomorrow Evening
 

I remember when Charley predicted $100k in resto cost.

Be interesting to know how much was purchase and how much was resto.

And I have to agree on the trunk seams. Don't get that at all. Isn't the picture in race trim enough of a tribute to its history? Maybe they ran out of money and couldn't afford a new trunk pan. Perhaps the budget was very "strict" at $250k. I can hear it now: "No, not another dime".

Re: Camaro History On Display Tomorrow Evening
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What was the &quot;110 Volt Wiring&quot; option? Something to do with lighting for an unveiling?</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 70 copo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It was actual 110 volt so they could display the car with installed accent lighting. </div></div>

Phil
Was the car found with this special 110v wiring still intact on the car after all these years?
If not,was it put back on during resto?...and can you show it to us today &amp; how it was intended to work?

Besides no wording on the front fenders,were there any other characteristics that set it apart from other mass produced '67 camaros?

Re: Camaro History On Display Tomorrow Evening
 

There is no right or wrong when it comes to restoring a car. It is a persons personal choice. Case in point ZL1 number 1. Porterfield chose to restore the car as a race car, not as it came from the factory. He stated he felt it better to leave it as raced because it was cut up. And at that point he had to choose which incarnation of the car he wanted it to look like. I have choose to restore my car to how the first owner had it with a scattersheild, traction bars, Hurst shfter, and aftermarket tach. I like and respect the history of it. The original engine is long gone and have chose to install a CE block. I have talked to many of the EXPERTS and got their input. I keep going back to this is my HOBBY, but investment potential and high dollar restorations kill the fun for the little guy like me. Just be glad it is still around

Re: Camaro History On Display Tomorrow Evening
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lynn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I remember when Charley predicted $100k in resto cost.

Be interesting to know how much was purchase and how much was resto.

And I have to agree on the trunk seams. Don't get that at all. Isn't the picture in race trim enough of a tribute to its history? Maybe they ran out of money and couldn't afford a new trunk pan. Perhaps the budget was very &quot;strict&quot; at $250k. I can hear it now: &quot;No, not another dime&quot;. </div></div>

Good comments. The preference on the restoration and the detail was driven by the way the hobby seeks to expose fakes, rebody cars and clones.

The owner has no financial constraints when it came to the restoration. &quot;The car as restored pays tribute to its Bushmaster race car heritage&quot;, that is a direct quote from him because I too asked essentially the same kind of question.

He is planning a Major car show/auto museum tour with the car in the not too distant future just to let people see it.

Re: Camaro History On Display Tomorrow Evening
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mr70</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What was the &quot;110 Volt Wiring&quot; option? Something to do with lighting for an unveiling?</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 70 copo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It was actual 110 volt so they could display the car with installed accent lighting. </div></div>

Phil
Was the car found with this special 110v wiring still intact on the car after all these years?
If not,was it put back on during resto?...and can you show it to us today &amp; how it was intended to work?

Besides no wording on the front fenders,were there any other characteristics that set it apart from other mass produced '67 camaros? </div></div>


Rick,

Wiring was not found in the car. The 110V wiring was installed so the car interior areas trunk and under hood could be illuminated with display lights without draining the battery. This was described as &quot;drive the car up to the display spot and plug it in&quot;.

The pilots were distinguished by strange build configurations, 283 engines, exterior paint delete (build in prime) heavy option content, missing option content too- as the early AIM was used and as the pilots were built the revisions to the AIM began.

For example if a part did not fit the part could be modified to fit and an engineering change submitted to revise the part specification. If you look at the 1967 AIM the initial release was on March 1, 1966. If you look further at the revision record there are quite a few UPC's that were revised in May, June, and July, when the pilots were being built and the production specifications were finalized.

Re: Camaro History On Display Tomorrow Evening
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ds1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is no right or wrong when it comes to restoring a car. It is a persons personal choice. Case in point ZL1 number 1. Porterfield chose to restore the car as a race car, not as it came from the factory. He stated he felt it better to leave it as raced because it was cut up. </div></div>

And thank God he did restore it as a race car. Perfect tribute to all that were associated with the car back in the day and in my opinion worth considerably more (and I don't necessarily mean monetarily) as a race car instead of a stock as delivered ZL1.

Re: Camaro History On Display Tomorrow Evening
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Material_Boy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Absolutely amazing car Phil. I have a couple of questions and I am in no way being critical at all. I notice in the engine compartment pic that top screw hose clamps are used on the heater hoses. I think spring clamps were still being used back then and continued to be used thru 1968. Is that the correct location for the fuel filter? Admittedly I am used to seeing Camaro's with V8's rather than inline 6's so that is probably the correct fuel filter since you describe the owner as very exacting. It just looks kind of aftermarket. Another question I have is why didn't the General use a flashier color with the debut of this car? The gold is beautiful but it just doesn't jump out like a red or yellow ETC. I also wonder why they didn't use a 327 rather than the 6 and an automatic transmission rather 3 on the tree? Who was the target audience back in the day when the car debuted? This was GM's 3 year late answer to the Mustang and I just wonder who they were tying to appeal to.
Thanks for posting the pics of this historic piece of history.

Dave </div></div>

Dave,

I will ask some of the pilot guys more specific questions tomorrow on the build configuration. Why Gold was picked?? Who Knows??

Hose clamps and small detail items may be hard to get a read on after close to 50 years. However I will tell you that I recently spoke to the worker who was assigned to pick up miscellaneous hardware items for the plant during the period.

Let me be clear I do not wish to stir up a hornets nest, BUT when a fastener shipment was delayed a Currier was dispatched to pick up enough fasteners from a nearby plant this was the first step. If that failed or if time was needed to cover the trip time of the Currier typically bolts (generally not safety system related) could be and were picked up at local hardware stores in quantity's sufficient to maintain production.

I know this because I recently interviewed a worker whose job it was to do exactly that. We are not talking huge numbers of cars affected but it did happen.

It was not uncommon for boxes of bolts to be flown in at Lunken field from suppliers within the region. Again a different worker had the job of meeting the supply planes at Lunken.

Re: Camaro History On Display Tomorrow Evening
 

You posted Pilot car paperwork at the beginning of the thread where it mentions 110 volt wiring etc. Is there something on that paperwork that ties it to this particular car ?

Re: Camaro History On Display Tomorrow Evening
 

I'm assuming a reference listing the new IBM DD01D to 860 coach/ Fisher number...??

BIG

Re: Camaro History On Display Tomorrow Evening
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SS427</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ds1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is no right or wrong when it comes to restoring a car. It is a persons personal choice. Case in point ZL1 number 1. Porterfield chose to restore the car as a race car, not as it came from the factory. He stated he felt it better to leave it as raced because it was cut up. </div></div>

And thank God he did restore it as a race car. Perfect tribute to all that were associated with the car back in the day and in my opinion worth considerably more (and I don't necessarily mean monetarily) as a race car instead of a stock as delivered ZL1. </div></div>

Yes, but then it got updated to modern NHRA cage and other stuff didn't it? Would have tried to put it back to 1969 race car specs, personally.

Re: Camaro History On Display Tomorrow Evening
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jeff Murphy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SS427</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ds1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is no right or wrong when it comes to restoring a car. It is a persons personal choice. Case in point ZL1 number 1. Porterfield chose to restore the car as a race car, not as it came from the factory. He stated he felt it better to leave it as raced because it was cut up. </div></div>

And thank God he did restore it as a race car. Perfect tribute to all that were associated with the car back in the day and in my opinion worth considerably more (and I don't necessarily mean monetarily) as a race car instead of a stock as delivered ZL1. </div></div>

Yes, but then it got updated to modern NHRA cage and other stuff didn't it? Would have tried to put it back to 1969 race car specs, personally.

</div></div>

Now that would have been cool!


BIG

Re: Camaro History On Display Tomorrow Evening
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Charley Lillard</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You posted Pilot car paperwork at the beginning of the thread where it mentions 110 volt wiring etc. Is there something on that paperwork that ties it to this particular car ? </div></div>

Several things line up perfectly:

100001 = vehicle serial number sequence

709 = Standard Gold Bucket Seats.
Z = (A50) Strato Bucket Seats (without headrests).
G-G = Car Color is Granada Gold
G = Interior paint is Gold
Options:
5Y = (A39) Belts All Deluxe

A car matching its option content appears in the pilot book as DD01D

VIN#100001 spent its life in the official geographic area of delivery destination for DD01D and this is verified by a detailed ownership and title search.

The other Gold Pilots:

Car DD8 is Gold/Gold but 350 car.
Car DD10 is Gold Gold 283 car.
Car DD54 is a Gold/Gold L-6 <span style="font-style: italic">and went to New Orleans.</span>
Car DD52 is a Gold/Gold L-6 <span style="font-style: italic">and went to Virginia.</span>
Car DD64 is a Gold/Gold 327 and went to Plant Manager Jack Rhodes.
Car DD65 is a Gold/Gold 327 and went to Flint.
Car DD65 is a Gold/Gold 327 and went to Flint Assembly Research.

Re: Camaro History On Display Tomorrow Evening
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 68l30</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm assuming a reference listing the new IBM DD01D to 860 coach/ Fisher number...??

BIG </div></div>

The Coach as the old Fisher guys called it was built out as unit 860 (which obviously it was not) as a test for the Fisher Body automated systems. (IBM 360 computer) The IBM card was already key punched and ready to go, so several of the really base option cars had option content added as write in information for the build.

The Key punchers were typically Women. I interviewed several nice ladies... [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/flag.gif[/img]

Re: Camaro History On Display Tomorrow Evening
 

<span style="font-weight: bold">Corrected List:</span>

The other Gold Pilots:

Car DD8 is Gold/Gold but 350 car.
Car DD10 is Gold Gold 283 car.
Car DD54 is a Gold/Gold L-6 and went to New Orleans.
Car DD52 is a Gold/Gold L-6 and went to Virginia.
<span style="font-weight: bold">Car DD63 is a Gold/Gold 327 and went to LA Plant Manager Kuyper (Norwood Built car)</span>
Car DD64 is a Gold/Gold 327 and went to NORWOOD Plant Manager Jack Rhodes.
Car DD65 is a Gold/Gold 327 and went to Flint.
Car <span style="font-weight: bold">DD78</span> is a Gold/Gold 327 and went to Flint Assembly Research.

Re: Camaro History On Display Tomorrow Evening
 

Was wondering what happened to that Camaro. Glad to see it got what it deserved. Great looking piece of history. I know this isn't car related but being that it was a pilot car reminds me of the very first C5A that was built and tested and when it finally received it's official tail number. 66-8307...was part of the flight line crew on that plane for 5 years and every part had to be built and modified by hand to work on that plane first before it was put into production for the rest of the C5A fleet. Always was fascinated with that aspect of engineering.

Re: Camaro History On Display Tomorrow Evening
 

Nice historic Camaro!

About the missing Camaro emblems, wasn't the name &quot;Camaro&quot; a very late decision? Note that the papers never mention Camaro, just F-car.


Jan

Re: Camaro History On Display Tomorrow Evening
 

Jan,

That is a good observation. June 29 1966 was the official announcement date. The emblems for the header and the trunk easy to apply later. The fenders not so much.

Re: Camaro History On Display Tomorrow Evening
 

is that 09D cowl date?

Re: Camaro History On Display Tomorrow Evening
 

I would like to see some of the drive train date codes (engine stamp, distributor, etc.) and some of the sheet metal date codes (deck lid, hood, fenders, etc).

Re: Camaro History On Display Tomorrow Evening
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bcmiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would like to see some of the drive train date codes (engine stamp, distributor, etc.) and some of the sheet metal date codes (deck lid, hood, fenders, etc). </div></div>

Not Codes in the traditional way that would be useful as the hobby currently defines and uses data analysis. This is a tag off of Pilot car 10....Lots of paper tags color codes and Part numbers all hand written.

Re: Camaro History On Display Tomorrow Evening
 

Big day at the UAW Summer Picnic.

I slipped outside to snap a picture. While I was outside right in front of the Camaro the UAW financial Secretary was rear ended hard trying to turn into the hall-- by a lady who might have been distracted. UAW guy is ok. Lady got out of the car limping all shook up (after placing the car in reverse instead of park) and the car took off again this time going after approaching traffic backwards with no driver so now she is limping and chasing it and everybody is steering to avoid a pending secondary collision... Lady's car finally jumped a curb and got hung up in the median.

What a day. Finally got a picture with the guy from the cover of the book...how cool is that?

Re: Camaro History On Display Tomorrow Evening
 

It's funny that both the first Camaro and the first Z28 were gold. I guess somebody knew they would eventually be worth their weight in it.

Re: Camaro History On Display Tomorrow Evening
 

I have a question as to what I am looking at in the picture showing what looks like window tracks. Is this from this coupe? If so what is that silver cylinder for?

Re: Camaro History On Display Tomorrow Evening
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: volspeed1970</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a question as to what I am looking at in the picture showing what looks like window tracks. Is this from this coupe? If so what is that silver cylinder for? </div></div>


That's a power top cylinder on a convert.

BIG

Re: Camaro History On Display Tomorrow Evening
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 68l30</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: volspeed1970</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a question as to what I am looking at in the picture showing what looks like window tracks. Is this from this coupe? If so what is that silver cylinder for? </div></div>


That's a power top cylinder on a convert.

BIG </div></div>

Okay so that is not from this car then. I am old and have forgotten stuff over the years but that had me stumped. Thank you BIG

Re: Camaro History On Display Tomorrow Evening
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Material_Boy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...why didn't the General use a flashier color with the debut of this car? The gold is beautiful but it just doesn't jump out like a red or yellow ETC. I also wonder why they didn't use a 327 rather than the 6 and an automatic transmission rather 3 on the tree? </div></div>
These are pilot builds - they build a mix of powertrains and options.

JohnZ has said this about the color:
All Chevrolet prototype vehicles were painted &quot;Gold&quot; as a quick means of identification.

Re: Camaro History On Display Tomorrow Evening
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kurt S</div><div class="ubbcode-body">JohnZ has said this about the color:
All Chevrolet prototype vehicles were painted &quot;Gold&quot; as a quick means of identification. </div></div>

I assume he was talking about the 1967 camaro when he said this?...I know of other years chevrolet protoypes that were not gold.

Re: Camaro History On Display Tomorrow Evening
 

The majority of the 1967 F pilots are colors other than gold.

Re: Camaro History On Display Tomorrow Evening
 

How did this car get an 09B cowl tag? Did all the pilot cars not have cowl tags when they were originally assembled in May?

Re: Camaro History On Display Tomorrow Evening
 

He was talking prototypes. There's many pics to back this up.
These are pilots - probably not relevant....

Re: Camaro History On Display Tomorrow Evening
 

I take it the decklid is not the original? Early cars didn't have decklid emblems.

Re: Camaro History On Display Tomorrow Evening
 

The alternate vin was not there when it was on ebay as per the owner or person who listed it . I dont believe it was due to rust but rather a race modification.

Re: Camaro History On Display Tomorrow Evening
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mark_C</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How did this car get an 09B cowl tag? Did all the pilot cars not have cowl tags when they were originally assembled in May? </div></div>

#1 build in the Pilot book delivered from Norwood Fisher body to Chevrolet Norwood on 5-21-66. IBM card was already key punched for September Production on this particular unit.

The coach for the car was built out as unit 860 (which obviously it was not) as a test for the Fisher Body automated systems. (IBM 360 Model 40 computer)

Re: Camaro History On Display Tomorrow Evening
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kurt S</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I take it the decklid is not the original? Early cars didn't have decklid emblems. </div></div>

According to the owner the decklid is the original.

Re: Camaro History On Display Tomorrow Evening
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: the427king</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The alternate vin was not there when it was on ebay as per the owner or person who listed it . I dont believe it was due to rust but rather a race modification. </div></div>

Old discussion on the car from this site:

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/ubbt...;Number=400045

Re: Camaro History On Display Tomorrow Evening
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 70 copo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The coach for the car was built out as unit 860 (which obviously it was not) as a test for the Fisher Body automated systems. (IBM 360 Model 40 computer)


</div></div>

What does this mean in plain language what were they testing if the tag was made in September? If the car was built without a tag originally, just what was being tested, or was it just post dated to September even though it was stamped in May? I have an image of a May of 66 Camaro tag, body number 46 VIN 13 05B build week. Assuming this tag is also from a pilot car and is real (and it does appear to be) why would this car have a tag attached to it when it was built, and this one has the tag it has? I'm do not doubt that this is a pilot car, but I'm not understanding how the numbers ended up the way they did. What was the process for selling a pilot car, when it had finished its, show, or engineering duties? Did it need to go back to the assembly plant and get reworked to make it legal to sell?