Re: Pinewood Derby Anyone?
 

With proper polish and lube, the coefficient of friction is less against the head of the axle than then the wheels scrub the body. It will be impossible to keep t. wheels off both side the whole way down. I'm not gonna say you can't come up with a faster method, but it would be wise to start with your first build utilizing the best practices.

I have done clear nail polish, then graphite where the hub could rub.

5 oz is the max allowed. Heavy is fastest. Most of the scales will only read in tenths. You could try and get it to 5.04 oz with a means to subtract if nessisary on race day. Fwiw, around 8 - oz starts causing too much friction on the wheels.

Don't know about precut. The kits years ago had a notch for like the driver's cockpit.

Yes, build several cars.

You can simply use a small wood plank as a ramp and measure how far you can get it to roll. Use a string and a treadmill to check aligment. We have an old wooden track you are welcome to test on.

Tear down is unlikely. You don't want to subject a kid to that. They might have an informed visual inspector.


Ask your friends in the pack what kind of track and timing they use. I suspect with those rules it will be an aluminum track with digital timing and et display. My wood track is just a win light on each lane.

Re: Pinewood Derby Anyone?
 

Thanks Paul - this feels like Jr Dragsters all over again [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/eek.gif[/img]

Here's Danny's pre-cut car, looks nice but that big flip up in the back is not going to help:

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h6...psef0d03f4.jpg

Re: Pinewood Derby Anyone?
 

Watch the movie &quot;Down and Derby&quot; (google it). Parents get way out of control, building test tracks in their bedrooms, etc, very funny!

The first time we did a pinewood we won it all. With just a P.O.S. car that a Pack parent helped us add weight to on race day. We did not know a thing except to smooth the axles.

The next time, with my middle son, we did all the tricks, but had a so-so showing.
The next year, it was raining while we were building the car and the paint would not dry. So we put the car in the oven to dry the paint. It was too much and split the wood. We finished the car anyway and it took first place! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics..._car_champ.jpg

It just means all the tricks help, but luck is needed too. We saw alot of professional looking, parent built cars, but you never know when a car is just &quot;right&quot;. Kind of like musclecars.

Re: Pinewood Derby Anyone?
 

Funny, I just took Danny's car body out of the oven! I read the speed secrets book cover-to-cover 2x, and Danny and I are planning to do as many of the secrets as possible. This includes baking the body to remove water weight so we can install more weight in the rear of the car. The body weighed 2.44 oz before baking, and weighed 2.27 afterwards. That's a reduction of 0.17 oz, which is 7%! I have plenty of Tungsten weight to get us back to 5.02 oz, [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/grin.gif[/img] .

Re: Pinewood Derby Anyone?
 

Just in case you thought I was kidding, [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/grin.gif[/img] At least I used an old cookie sheet....

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h6...ps9feb1b10.jpg

Re: Pinewood Derby Anyone?
 

Well, today was race day here in Houston. The boys did a good job. Two for Two. Lots of hours in those cars. A good time was had by all. Wife is building a car for next years adult class. I may run an Open car. Hope everyone has fun at their races. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...5-dsc04996.jpg
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...6-dsc04997.jpg
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...7-dsc04998.jpg

Re: Pinewood Derby Anyone?
 

Great job with the kids and cars Todd! Thanks for the pics too. Got any action shots?

Re: Pinewood Derby Anyone?
 

Paul,
No action shots. You bring up a good point. We tend to take stills to provide moments in our lives, when with todays technology we should be capturing memories in video format. Next year will be a family affair as we all (5) participate, and I will have that captured on video for sure. This year we did have a new feature in the form of instant replay. The race heats and line ups have always been projected onto a large wall in the building we race in. This year we set up a dedicated camera and lighting to project instant replays on the wall as well. Each heat race is replayed twice. Pretty cool addition which opened up more conversation amongst the kids and parents. I ride a mountain bike for fun, and excercise with my nut case friends, and some use a GoPro to capture their experiences. I suppose it's time for me to purchase one also. My Boy Scout is starting to climb cliffs and repel, and I know he's wanting one also.

Re: Pinewood Derby Anyone?
 

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Unfortunately my kids had to run each other. Batman in the left and &quot;Frozen&quot; in the center. We set the track record today and had the fastest cars there which is exciting anytime you are in the upper tier. The scouts were a bit jealous that a girl was running so fast, but most were great to her. My son was real cool for only 3. Kids said it was worth almost gluing their fingers together, with a smile and I had to laugh!

Times for all three cars were sub 3 seconds, which is flying. The run off between these two actually had Batman flying off the track. FROZEN ran a 2.958 ET that pass! My kids were a bit confused when their names were not called for trophies, but we were guests and I told our friends I didn't want to take a trophy away from another Scout 's sibling. They got over it pretty quickly and we're all smiles.

Re: Pinewood Derby Anyone?
 

Camera #2 with the car flying off the track after the finish-line! Crowd response is unedited!

http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/w...ps75cdcfb6.jpg

This may be easier to view. Consolidated a few runs. The flying off the track is at the end here.

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Re: Pinewood Derby Anyone?
 

I spent a fair amount of time this weekend (with Danny, after I was done with the power tools) working on the car. I don't think we are allowed to modify the front end of our cars - but I honestly won't know until we get to the test session this Friday night. I had 2 other Father/Son teams over to our place this weekend, we are all learning together and none of us know what to expect.

I spent most of Saturday moving weight around, trying to get it to the back of the car. I drilled out most of the underside of his car body so I could add tungsten slugs out back. We put a few coats of primer on it Saturday night, I was shocked at how much weight that added - I sanded most of it off, which simply gummed up the sandpaper. Why do these things take so long to dry???? We put a light coat of silver metallic over the primer so we can stripe it before spraying the blue top coat - I had to put the car on a heater vent all night for it to dry!

Also, found out that the night Danny got his car, there was a guy (multiple guys!) cutting the wood blocks for the kids, and another guy polishing axles for everyone. Karen had time to get Danny's car block cut, but not the axles polished - which I did myself (thanks to you guys) but I was thinking that I was the only one doing it - not! The field just got a bit tighter! [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/eek.gif[/img]

So, is this an all age run type of event, or does each kid only race other kids in their age group? How does this all work? I have baseball workouts with Benjamin while Karen takes Danny to Scouts - I can't seem to figure out how to be in 2 places at once....

- just watched the video, what do the car run into at the end of the track?? [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/eek.gif[/img] Doesn't that impact knock out some alignment, or knock some weights loose?

Re: Pinewood Derby Anyone?
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So, is this an all age run type of event, or does each kid only race other kids in their age group? How does this all work? I have baseball workouts with Benjamin while Karen takes Danny to Scouts - I can't seem to figure out how to be in 2 places at once....
</div></div>

In my area the kids run in age groups (Wolf, Bear, Webelos I, II, etc) and the fastest 2 or 3 from each age group in the Pack advanced to a Council Derby later in the year. We also awarded a overall &quot;Pack Champion&quot; based on the fastest time. We used the electronic/computer timing system (Derbymaster I think is the name of the software) so that there was no subjectivity involved in the results

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
- just watched the video, what do the car run into at the end of the track?? [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/eek.gif[/img] Doesn't that impact knock out some alignment, or knock some weights loose? </div></div>

Our track had about a 2-3' section at the end where the center part was raised and had sandpaper attached to it to slow the cars down before they hit a large block of foam to stop them - but yes, occasionally there are casualties.

Jake

Re: Pinewood Derby Anyone?
 

To aid in stability, are you gonna run a long wheel base Marlin? Your rules didn't say anything against it, or even promoting the use of the factory slots. I think it would only help. Just make sure there is just a bit of the body beyond where you place the wheels.

Jake is right. The kids in similar rank/den usually start off running each other first. Not sure how many kids get to go on to the district, but that may dictate how far the brackets go.

There was just a foam block and the raised center rail in the video. The Batman car was dropped by my kid earlier and I had to glue some wood back on. Despite flying off the track, the car was still fast on other runs. There is plenty of luck in the PWD. I would make sure you bring basic tools, spare parts and superglue!

Re: Pinewood Derby Anyone?
 

I have tools, I have spare parts, and would welcome just racing in an age group - none of us know what we are doing!

I thought long and hard about extending the wheelbase, just couldn't quite figure the advantage other than being able to put more weight in front of the rear axle. Given the car design that Danny chose, I don't know if it would help us or not.

I've been really thinking of drilling axle holes instead of using the slots (which would/could lead into a wheel base extension), but I'm not sure I can drill a 3 degree cant into the holes. I have a jig, and there is enough play to raise one side of the body - which could get me 3 degrees... but, I felt like I was running out of time, and so we started the paint process. I might still drill holes, or might use the 2 hack saw blades to run a 3 degree angle in the slots....

This is too stressful.... feels like Jr Dragsters all over again....

[img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/eek.gif[/img]

Re: Pinewood Derby Anyone?
 

Just finished with my sons car and the last year of doing it. Best showing we have had. One thing I was told about that I have never done is the axle install tool. It puts the axle in straight and true.

Helped put together a brand new, 6 lane aluminium track. Electric timer shows the placement and time of the run. The Webelos were running fast. The fastest cars were running 2.65 seconds for the track. Most were flying.

Marin.. feel free to call. My cell is 816-654-3400.

Re: Pinewood Derby Anyone?
 

2.65 is fast and ounds like a competitive group, probably a 35' track.? I would love to try out a 6 lane track! Rusty, toss up a pic of this year's car!

Re: Pinewood Derby Anyone?
 

Well, we painted the top coat and put it on the heater vent last night - it dried by morning! Danny is thrilled, I think he's getting excited now, he can't wait to put his number stickers on it.

I have to decide tonight if I'm going to try drilling new axle holes with a 3 degree cant, knowing me - I'll try it. If I decide to go with the original axle slots, it shouldn't be a big deal. We are going with a 3 wheel unit too, will have more questions as I go...

Command Central! At the bar, in the newly finished basement, Danny can watch the big TV while we work on his car! What better place to work on a Derby car! [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif[/img]

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h6...ps9216599a.jpg

Our 'paint booth', I can spin the car by turning the hanger handle on top. Danny likes to paint, but can't yet push the paint can nozzle down - so I have to help a little! [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/wink.gif[/img]

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h6...ps47ca3ba2.jpg

Re: Pinewood Derby Anyone?
 

Race day is fast approaching...!

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h6...psdf084ed7.jpg

Re: Pinewood Derby Anyone?
 

I will get pictures when I get home. C of G was 1&quot; in front of the rear wheel. Car weighed. 4.9 oz. We polished the axles with seven grades of emery cloth ending with 2000 grit. I then chucked the axles and wheels together and ran those on together for 2-3 minutes. When graphite was added, the wheels would spin 20-24 sec. Some have one wheel barely touching the ground. My way of thinking, 4-wheels, 4 hit the ground.

Re: Pinewood Derby Anyone?
 

It was a good day - we took home 1st place for his age group, happy kid!

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h6...ps91393d5f.jpg

I ended up drilling canted axle holes for the rear wheels, straight up holes for the front with the left front slightly raised - it still touched but just barely. We were able to move enough weight to the rear of the car to get the COM at 1.5&quot; in front of the rear axle, it was the best I could do.

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h6...psd15f694a.jpg

The track is 30' long, 4 cars wide, times were 2.44-2.48, our avge mph over the 8 runs was 204.9mph - good enough for 1st place as the 2nd place car averaged 204.1mph.

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h6...ps8b11f998.jpg

So, Danny advanced into the final round of 30 cars, that meant 60 heats - took a little over an hour. Once we went up against the older kids, it was a different game! Danny came in 12th out of the 30 finalists, not too bad. The #1 car was hitting 207.0 - 207.1 mph! I had to tell him that he was essentially #12 out of ~90 kids. We'll take it, [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/grin.gif[/img]

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h6...pse4b4a840.jpg

Thanks to all for answering my rookie questions, the best is just the smile on your child's face. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif[/img]

Re: Pinewood Derby Anyone?
 

Great job to you and Danny! He built a cool looking car that ran great. Earning a trophy in a field of 90 is tough to do. Those wood tracks are a unique experience. Makes me even more nostalgic.

Re: Pinewood Derby Anyone?
 

I have really enjoyed this thread. Brings back a ton of memories. Congrats to all for this years success!
I found one of my old cars in my mom's attic this past week.
I'm not sure if I read any rules or even worried about that stuff. Just wanted to build something cool.
If I remember correctly I modeled it after a Hotwheels tow truck I have.
It wasn't fast, but I did what I could for my age. Still brought home a trophy.
My dad had to try and lighten it up. Drilling some holes in the bottom and the drill kinda got away from him and put one hole all the way through. Just before race time didn't give us anytime to fix.

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...9-dsc03362.jpg
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...0-dsc03360.jpg
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...1-dsc03361.jpg

Craftsman Award, Age 9, 1983
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...2-dsc03363.jpg

The lessons that Cub Scouts, Webelos and Boy Scouts stick with you forever.
This is great stuff!

Thanks,
Marty

Re: Pinewood Derby Anyone?
 

Awesome tow truck, love the design!

Danny and I are watching the video I took of his races, since he's a little under the weather - his Victory Pizza came back up last night right after I posted those picture, [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/eek.gif[/img] He wants to build something cool next year, so I'll show him your Tow Truck!

Re: Pinewood Derby Anyone?
 

Thank you for the compliments.

Tell Danny I hope he feels better. I think this years car is very cool!

By the time next year comes around I will try and dig out the other cars. It will give you some more design ideas.

Marty

Re: Pinewood Derby Anyone?
 

Congratulations!

Jake

Re: Pinewood Derby Anyone?
 

Danny's back to full strength - kids bounce back quick! He loves idea of using model car decals...

BTW, we weighed in at 5.0oz, but on my 3 digit scale we were at 5.04oz - had .1oz of tungsten putty installed just in case we needed to shed a little weight! Several of the top cars had precision work done to them, and were quite impressive.

Re: Pinewood Derby Anyone?
 

Congrats on the first derby! It never gets easier it seems.