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Re: Street Outlaws on Discovery....
well said Old 5.0 ... Their fees are also so inflated all the way around that whether racing at an event or even just attending will break your bank. I don't know how some of these grass roots guys can afford to do it even at a weekend racer level. I just think the suits that run the NHRA have lost touch with what Wally Parks started it as. I get the taking the racers off of the streets, but what they do on the show is not like what you see at say the Compton street races where the sidelines are filled with people just waiting to be run down by an out of control car. Despite the "staged" aspect or the fact that it is reality TV show I think the NHRA has overstepped their boundaries on this one. When you have guys like Lutz saying go ahead pull my license it shows that people really are fed up with their money machine mentality.
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Re: Street Outlaws on Discovery....
"78 Sedan deVille to run V/Stock.... their arrogance is exactly why they're on ESPN 47 getting preempted by professional women's curling...."
That's funny! [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif[/img] |
Re: Street Outlaws on Discovery....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: old5.0</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: old5.0</div><div class="ubbcode-body">NHRA is in it to get paid. What have they done over the past thirty or forty years to fulfill this sacred mission of theirs? What have they done to support grassroots racers, encourage young people to enter the hobby, or substantively change the public's perception of drag racing?</div></div>
I'm not supporting NHRA's action against the SO participants, but I would have to object a bit on the statement above - the Jr Dragster class has been the fastest (and within the last 4-5 years, the only) growing class within the NHRA - us included. So, while they have not really catered to the Jr's, they have created the class, set (sometimes 'silly') rules, organized 2 National Jr Dragster Events each year, and recently have allowed a handful of Jr's to run during NHRA National events. So, on that front, they have done well. They continue to struggle with converting Jr racers to big cars, but that is true in just about every sport with a 'feeder group'. I do like the SO show, I watch it with my sons, and I point out their controlled environment and that it is against the law to street race - we enjoy the competitive nature of the participants, the smack talk and the calling out process. I'll take SO over the new 'Karting' show any day.... </div></div> That's true, they do support the juniors and I should have acknowledged that. My problem, though, is what happens after you graduate out of the Jr. ranks. I had a discussion about this on another forum sometime back, but it's relevant here, as well. NHRA is declining in relevance, and they've done it to themselves simply because they thought they were the only game in town. Back in the 80's, you could see it coming. They were already marginalizing the grass roots racers that put them on the map in favor of the Pro classes, but then the NMCA popped up and, concurrently, as the 5.0 Mustang got rolling, you began seeing small shootout series like the 5.0 vs. GN races, and finally a 5.0-only sanctioning body, the AMRA, was formed in about '89 or '90. The impetus behind this was easy to figure out; I could by new Mustang, H/C/I swap and a blower and have a driveable 9-second street car. On top of that, I could head to an AMRA race and participate in some good old-fashioned, heads-up, run-what-ya-brung drag racing. Or, I could go to NHRA and spend a bunch of money on a 78 Sedan deVille to run V/Stock because that particular car hadn't been hit with a massive horsepower factor yet and I might stand a fighting chance of winning a hundred bucks for my trouble. That's an easy decision in my book. It would have been so simple for the NHRA to provide a home for all the young people who were part of the emerging heads-up revolution back then. Revive a dead class designation like Factory Experimental or Modified Production for the late-models, and another for the vintage musclecar guys who didn't want to be restricted by the existing Stock-S/S rules. No factors, no weight breaks, no BS; whoever hits the stripe first wins. Everything from the Pure Stock drags to big tire grudge style racing could have existed wholly under the NHRA banner (as opposed to just racing at NHRA sanctioned tracks), which would have provided all drag racers with truly unified front that might have been more effective in actually accomplishing goals like getting kids off the street and keeping tracks open. But that isn't what they did, and the landscape of drag racing has been completely altered because of it. NHRA thought they <span style="font-style: italic">owned</span> drag racing. But they were wrong, and their arrogance is exactly why they're on ESPN 47 getting preempted by professional women's curling. NHRA is killing itself slowly, a self-imposed death by a thousand cuts. Ten thousand stupid little decisions adding up to a massive problem (not coincidentally, unless something has changed, don't they refuse to acknowledge that your Deuce even exists?). I suppose my biggest problem is that in my mind, I can't square NHRA's actions with incompetence, not completely. Which is why I said they're in it to get paid. They want to squeeze as much money as possible out of as many people as possible for as long as possible. I just don't see any other reasonable explanation for their actions, although maybe I'm reading too much into it and they really are as shortsighted as they appear. Ultimately, I suspect this entire mess with SO has less to do with street racing and more to do with (as someone on another forum so aptly put it) the fact that a primered Nova from Oklahoma has twice as many Facebook likes as they do. </div></div> Couldnt have said it better. Well done. |
Re: Street Outlaws on Discovery....
This is exactly the intelligent reply I was looking for. I wanted to pick the brains of pure dirt under the fingernail car guys. I agree whole heartedly with this. The NHRA is pushing itself into extinction and the fact that real working class car guys see it as well makes me feel a lot better. My own interest has been dissipating over the past few years. I used to never miss a race both on TV and out at Pomona. I have now neglected to go to the past 2 because I just don't feel that my "Entertainment Dollar" is being taken seriously. It's no longer run on 1320' It's 60 bucks at the gate and now on sunday at Pomona they are done before 4 pm because of all of the lousy neighbors that live around the track. So is it worth it for me to spend 120.00 for 1 day for my wife and I to go and watch some hum drum pro cars run or is it a better idea to go to Fontana and watch real cars run for 10 to 20 bucks or got to the street car super nats in vegas for 100 for 2 of us for 2 days and watch real cars and exciting runs. I'd rather spend my money on the real cars than watch these cookie cutters fade away into obscurity.
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Re: Street Outlaws on Discovery....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"78 Sedan deVille to run V/Stock.... their arrogance is exactly why they're on ESPN 47 getting preempted by professional women's curling...."
That's funny! [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif[/img]</div></div> Now that's funny! But the bottom line here is glorifying street racing -- yes, most of us have done it in some manner. But some, including youngin's that are watching this get the impression it is OK to go out and street bash -- we know that's wrong. In the past here in Texas if you were caught and convicted of a "contest of speed" you could loose your ride! The local track here is San Antonio Raceway (very nice facility) and it appears it is in the process of closing the door. There were many, including myself who enjoyed the racing and "test & tune" sessions in a legal and controlled environment. IMHO all sanctioning bodies (NHRA. IHRA, etc.) need to make racing and test & tune sessions a bit more affordable -- just that will give the smart street racers a place to do their thing. TAZ |
Re: Street Outlaws on Discovery....
Not only that. These sanctioning bodies need to give back to these tracks. Help them keep their gates open. Out here in California they are trying to resurrect the old brothers raceway on terminal island. A run what you brung track for the people and by the people.
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Re: Street Outlaws on Discovery....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SMOKIN_JOKER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not only that. These sanctioning bodies need to give back to these tracks. Help them keep their gates open. Out here in California they are trying to resurrect the old brothers raceway on terminal island. A run what you brung track for the people and by the people. </div></div>
The problem is that NHRA is doing exactly the opposite. I understand they've been threatening to pull the sanction from tracks that allow outlaw and grudge style racing. Doesn't quite fit with the "NHRA wants to stop street racing" meme, but goes well with my "NHRA wants their cut of the action" theory. Sending threatening letters to Murillo\Lutz\Andrade, et al, isn't new behavior on the part of the NHRA, but it blew up in their face because these guys decided to go public. Anyway, I'm not condoning street racing; it is dangerous and that's why I don't do it anymore. My outrage has less to do with street racing and more to do with the NHRA's hypocrisy. That said, I do enjoy the show and I'm looking forward to next week. I've been jonesing to see Chief's Goat and Murillo's notch get down for a while now. |
Re: Street Outlaws on Discovery....
Murillo won't be giving up his NHRA license. He has a show coming out soon called The house of grudge. He needs the NHRA tracks to make his show happen.
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Re: Street Outlaws on Discovery....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pulnaway</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Murillo won't be giving up his NHRA license. He has a show coming out soon called The house of grudge. He needs the NHRA tracks to make his show happen.
</div></div> You're exactly right, he won't give it up. He isn't going to start a war with the NHRA because he's smart and he knows he'll lose. All he needed to do was what he did: post the letter on Facebook, sit on the fence and let the public react. It's worked fairly well so far, since the opinion of the racing community seems to be overwhelmingly against the NHRA. With the pending lawsuit (which has been eerily silent since it was filed), rumors of some sort of sale and tracks being threatened privately, my guess is that there's a lot more going on behind the scenes in Glendora than we're aware of and this little public feud with a popular television show is the last thing they wanted. I've known Murillo by rep for 20 or more years, and this wouldn't the be first time he's played the long game with a sanctioning body. |
Re: Street Outlaws on Discovery....
Lawsuit meaning the challenge to NHRA's 501c3 Not for Profit status?
BTW, Tom Compton (CEO of NHRA) reported annual total compensation in the 2012 Form 990 of $709K! This comp for an organization with total revenue of just under $100M, it's no wonder they are a bit protective of the golden goose. |
Re: Street Outlaws on Discovery....
They keep that up and NHRA WILL be history ...
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Re: Street Outlaws on Discovery....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Lawsuit meaning the challenge to NHRA's 501c3 Not for Profit status?
BTW, Tom Compton (CEO of NHRA) reported annual total compensation in the 2012 Form 990 of $709K! This comp for an organization with total revenue of just under $100M, it's no wonder they are a bit protective of the golden goose. </div></div> Yep, that's it. It was filed four years ago and I haven't heard a peep since, so I assume it's still working its way through the system. I honestly hadn't thought about it in some time, but between the SO thing and rumor that came out a few days ago about Compton trying to sell half the organization to an entertainment company, my curiosity has been renewed. Incindentally, it looks like Tom's paychecks have taken a cut. When the suit was filed in 2011, I would swear it was mentioned that his compensation was closer to 800 grand. |
Re: Street Outlaws on Discovery....
Funny, I've been a member of Yellowbullet since day 1 on an invite over dinner with Monty BEFORE there was even a site. Now that site is huge and I think the biggest car/motorsports site on the web at this time.
YES I have talked with Chief, Shawn, Dom, "daddy" Dave, Doc, GO TEE BO ad Monza on YB. There seem to be just normal, down to earth type of guys with the typical hang ups that we all have or go through. They have said the ROADS are closed, there is safety and fire on scene, BUT the races are full on racing, not staged. YOU WIN, you WIN! What the Nazi Hot Rod Association is going after them for is WAY outside the mandate of the NHRA lic and conduct mandates are. The LIC is to run on THERE track. You can run IHRA and they accept the NHRA lic of most cases. BUT funny, NHRA will not usually honour the IHRA lic. I see track LEAVING the NHRA and either going "outlaw" or IHRA for a while. With the ever rising cost and fees Associated with NHRA, I'm surprised the IHRA isn't jumping on this as a way to win over racers and tracks. There is NOTHING on the NHRA lic that says you agree NOT to street race. People are saying that and that street racing is illegial, therefore they do not want to condone it. Well guess what, how many of the NHRA lic holding racers have DUI's, Fraud, stealing, sex charges and been CONVICTED! Yet they still have lic to race. It's a joke that NHRA is either: A. playing this up to get MORE recognition for both the show and themselves to help there numbers, B. Seriously butt-hurt that these "country bumpkins" from Oklahoma are feeding it to the GRAND Nazi-HRA in there own backyard, AT THERE OWN GAME. Maybe all these up-coming show should just BOYCOTT these tracks to, and go race solely on IHRA or outlaw tracks. |
Re: Street Outlaws on Discovery....
Me thinks Plan B. The rumor is NHRA has put the screws to a number of tracks with NHRAs "my way or the highway" attitude and way of doing business. The rumor mill here in San Antonio surrounding the San Antonio Raceway is just an example ... lately, that deal has hushed up big time. Haven't heard a word as to the "receivership" situation clouding that great racetrack's future.
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Re: Street Outlaws on Discovery....
For 2013 NHRA had $ 99.2M of revenue, $ 98M of expenses for a $1.3M gain. Comptons compensation was $869k
For 2012 NHRA had $ 98.3M of revenue, $ 97M of expenses for a $1.2M gain. Comptons compensation was $709k For 2011 NHRA had $ 98.0M of revenue, $101M of expenses for a $3.4M loss. Comptons compensation was $745k For 2010 NHRA had $104.0M of revenue, $104M of expenses for a $ 12k loss. Comptons compensation was $712k For 2009 NHRA had $107.7M of revenue, $108M of expenses for a $600k loss. Comptons compensation was $701k For 2008 NHRA had $122.5M of revenue, $121M of expenses for a $1.9M gain. Comptons compensation was $772k For 2007 NHRA had $121.5M of revenue, $116M of expenses for a $5.6M gain. Comptons compensation was $745k So, over the last 7 years this organization has experienced a $22.3M (18%) decrease in revenue, an $18M decrease (15%) in expenses, but the CEO compensation has generally increased. You can see the compensation moving around with revenue and gain/loss, but in many corporations - the CEO would be on the way out with this type of leadership, but the recession provides a safe context! |
Re: Street Outlaws on Discovery....
Next -- bailout!
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Re: Street Outlaws on Discovery....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For 2013 NHRA had $ 99.2M of revenue, $ 98M of expenses for a $1.3M gain. Comptons compensation was $869k
For 2012 NHRA had $ 98.3M of revenue, $ 97M of expenses for a $1.2M gain. Comptons compensation was $709k For 2011 NHRA had $ 98.0M of revenue, $101M of expenses for a $3.4M loss. Comptons compensation was $745k For 2010 NHRA had $104.0M of revenue, $104M of expenses for a $ 12k loss. Comptons compensation was $712k For 2009 NHRA had $107.7M of revenue, $108M of expenses for a $600k loss. Comptons compensation was $701k For 2008 NHRA had $122.5M of revenue, $121M of expenses for a $1.9M gain. Comptons compensation was $772k For 2007 NHRA had $121.5M of revenue, $116M of expenses for a $5.6M gain. Comptons compensation was $745k So, over the last 7 years this organization has experienced a $22.3M (18%) decrease in revenue, an $18M decrease (15%) in expenses, but the CEO compensation has generally increased. You can see the compensation moving around with revenue and gain/loss, but in many corporations - the CEO would be on the way out with this type of leadership, but the recession provides a safe context! </div></div> Ah, I see. Thanks for posting that, Marlin. That's interesting. Based on your knowledge of the NHRA, what is your opinion of the complaint? No big deal, or are people in Glendora sweating this? Further, what might be the connection, if any, between this complaint and the rumors of NHRA's attempt to sell the Pro classes (which, it should be pointed out, are unverified as of now). Perhaps Compton & Company are looking to abandon this ship before the music stops. I'm not much of a conspiracy theorist, but the timing of the letters to the SO guys coming out at almost exactly the same time the sale rumor hits are curious. Maybe just coincidence, but odd timing. |
Re: Street Outlaws on Discovery....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: earntaz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Me thinks Plan B. The rumor is NHRA has put the screws to a number of tracks with NHRAs "my way or the highway" attitude and way of doing business. The rumor mill here in San Antonio surrounding the San Antonio Raceway is just an example ... lately, that deal has hushed up big time. Haven't heard a word as to the "receivership" situation clouding that great racetrack's future. </div></div>
I thought all the discussion with SAR was involving IHRA? When did NHRA become involved? That track REALLY needs to be reopened. We are stuck with Little River or Houston, and I aint driving to Houston! |
Re: Street Outlaws on Discovery....
Jeff -- the track switched to NHRA sometime in 2009 ... then at a later date (don't know exactly when) they switched to IHRA. Later, the rumor was they were going back to NHRA and that is when the train seemed to jump the track. There appears to be a be a crapper full of legal goings on now -- haven't heard anything for about a month. The last word was that the folks holding the paper tried to sell the place -- no one bit.
I agree with you -- it is a nice facility (Less than 10 miles from my home) and needs to be opened back up regardless who the sanctioning body is. TAZ |
Re: Street Outlaws on Discovery....
Here is a tragic result of street racing ...
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/02/27/los...tcmp=latestnews |
Re: Street Outlaws on Discovery....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: earntaz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here is a tragic result of street racing ...
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/02/27/los...tcmp=latestnews </div></div> You have idiots like that everywhere. The majority of REAL and safety oriented street races happen between 1-4 AM on a deserted road with none of the spectators in front of the starting line. |
Re: Street Outlaws on Discovery....
Matt -- copy that!!!
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Re: Street Outlaws on Discovery....
I think this situation is a combination of morons at work... Idiots who insist on standing where they don't belong and a 2oo hp driver in 500 hp car.
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Re: Street Outlaws on Discovery....
1 Attachment(s)
Judging by the rear tire, that 'Stang appears to be a rather serious piece of equipment.
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Re: Street Outlaws on Discovery....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: markjohnson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Judging by the rear tire, that 'Stang appears to be a rather serious piece of equipment. </div></div>
<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #FF0000">Was</span></span> a rather serious piece of equipment |
Re: Street Outlaws on Discovery....
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Re: Street Outlaws on Discovery....
Just curious, what do you the fastest cars on the list would run in the quarter mile?
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Re: Street Outlaws on Discovery....
I happened to catch a rerun of the show last week where they were racing some guys from Chicago. One of the cars from Chicago was Bobby D'Andrea's purple IROC Camaro. It is a big tire car with a 632 on NOS and I saw it run mid 7's at Joliet several years ago at a NMCA event. He was racing a second gen RS Camaro that was supposed to be the fastest of the cars run by the Street Outlaws guys. I'm guessing the top cars would run at least mid 7's at the track.
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Re: Street Outlaws on Discovery....
I saw that episode and they mentioned that the pro mod chevy II was a 6 second car. I figured that was a little exaggerating for TV. 7s is crazy fast especially putting that kind of car on the street.
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Re: Street Outlaws on Discovery....
Anyone catch the season finale (although there is a new show next week which appears to be more of behind the scenes type of deal) last night?
I thought it was great. SPOILER ALERT IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN IT. The top three fastest SO guys got beat by Kye Kelly from Missippi in his 3rd gen Camaro. Only Dave gave him a really close race, although maybe if Chief's car didn't wheelie so much that race might have been a lot closer. |
Re: Street Outlaws on Discovery....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SBR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I saw that episode and they mentioned that the pro mod chevy II was a 6 second car. I figured that was a little exaggerating for TV. 7s is crazy fast especially putting that kind of car on the street. </div></div>
Don't know about the Nova, but Murillo's notch is a 6 second car. Makes somewhere in the neighborhood of 2400 horsepower to the tires. Too much car for the street, though, as you said. Last night he put half a car on Chief before the 60 but couldn't keep it hooked. Anyway, it was a great season finale, and I loved seeing Murillo in action on the street. I realize that most here don't pay attention to Fox bodies, but that black coupe is a rolling piece of history and it was cool to see it doing what it was made to do rather sitting and gathering dust in the back of somebodies shop. Good show. |
Re: Street Outlaws on Discovery....
It was a good show and was very happy with the outcome. The SO guys are a little too cocky for my tastes. There's always someone out there whose faster.
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Re: Street Outlaws on Discovery....
The SO guys are a little too cocky for my tastes....
Fits right in with this type of reality show ... |
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Re: Street Outlaws on Discovery....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cook_dw</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Looks like John Andrade Jr. (The Cutty) got a new powerplant.. LS turbo.
The Cutty </div></div> Heard that awhile back. Also switched to big tires. He ought to be a serious player next season. That Cutlass, Chief's GTO and Murillo's notch are my three favorite cars that have appeared on the show. |
Re: Street Outlaws on Discovery....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: old5.0</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
That Cutlass, Chief's GTO and Murillo's notch are my three favorite cars that have appeared on the show. </div></div> I agree. I also like Monza's 2nd gen. |
Re: Street Outlaws on Discovery....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cook_dw</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: old5.0</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
That Cutlass, Chief's GTO and Murillo's notch are my three favorite cars that have appeared on the show. </div></div> I agree. I also like Monza's 2nd gen. </div></div> Yeah, I like that Camaro, too. The wheels, the stance, everything about it looks right. Seems to run pretty good, too. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/grin.gif[/img] |
Re: Street Outlaws on Discovery....
The Murder Nova just went a 4.60 at 184mph in the 8th on a 275 drag radial.
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Re: Street Outlaws on Discovery....
^^^^^ That's flat out moving on a 275.
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Re: Street Outlaws on Discovery....
R.I.P. Louise.
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