Re: 1969 Camaro L89 with JL8 option at Kissimmee
 

As noted earlier, probably not a spoiler car since it had a rear antenna prior to restoration.

Re: 1969 Camaro L89 with JL8 option at Kissimmee
 

I agree. I was just surprised they added it to the car, to the order, to the window sticker, but forgot it on the trim tag.

Re: 1969 Camaro L89 with JL8 option at Kissimmee
 

It wasn't black, it wasn't an L89, it wasn't a JL8.
Hey, but at least it's a 69 Camaro!

Re: 1969 Camaro L89 with JL8 option at Kissimmee
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lynn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And the tag:

</div></div>


fake tag yes?? im no expert, but [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/dunno.gif[/img]

Re: 1969 Camaro L89 with JL8 option at Kissimmee
 

The rivets holding the cowl tag on look like replacements. Every car I have owned has had sealer in the rivets holding the cowl tag on. Is the listing of 396/375 L78 correct then L89 under it correct?

Re: 1969 Camaro L89 with JL8 option at Kissimmee
 

I'm glad to see this car allowed to get put under the microscope by the members here......After all.....this site is all about protecting the &quot;Pedigree&quot; of the True Detroit produced Musclecars...........Great Job!!!..........Funny how those L89's seem to just fall out of the sky!!!

Re: 1969 Camaro L89 with JL8 option at Kissimmee
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: iluv69s</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lynn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And the tag:

</div></div>


fake tag yes?? im no expert, but [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/dunno.gif[/img]
</div></div>

Yes, a reproduction cowl tag.

Re: 1969 Camaro L89 with JL8 option at Kissimmee
 

Tag does not have D80 but the window sticker does. I also questioned the L89 on the window. The Camaro White book lists the L89 as an option by itself with a cost of $710.95 and 311 being produced. Which is correct for the window sticker?

Re: 1969 Camaro L89 with JL8 option at Kissimmee
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kwhizz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm glad to see this car allowed to get put under the microscope by the members here......After all.....this site is all about protecting the &quot;Pedigree&quot; of the True Detroit produced Musclecars...........Great Job!!!..........Funny how those L89's seem to just fall out of the sky!!! </div></div>

Agreed!

Re: 1969 Camaro L89 with JL8 option at Kissimmee
 

Not the best image, but just for comparison, a real 09D tag from a spoiler car, although one that has been separated from the car. Look for it to show up on a &quot;real deal&quot; Z/28 one of these days.

Not sure who posted this one, but it was probably for sale on ebay or craigslist at one time. I know the guys at CRG are keeping a database of fake and loose trim tags.

Re: 1969 Camaro L89 with JL8 option at Kissimmee
 

Hi Lynn,
Agsin basically, I have no comments on the car except the interesting history &quot;a &quot; local restorer (I mislead as &quot;the&quot; local restorer) shared in a local story to me about his chasing Kenny Wright for 3 of his front yard cars. That was his expereince that I found interesting &amp; chose to share on the forum. As I'm far from an expert I would not know a fake invoice from a real protecto plate, excpet that I have car buddies who might &amp; OK fine. I saw the restored car at &quot;a&quot; local restorer's shop &amp; heard a cool local story about the alleged original owner. For what's it's worth, the post sparked plenty of member participation particularly yours......Mahalo from Maui (for the week &amp; the surf is going off)

Re: 1969 Camaro L89 with JL8 option at Kissimmee
 

Hello iluv69's,

I'm a nobody in the elite realm of this site &amp; that's fine, I have fun driving my few whatever cars, peace brotha

R U da guy wit da hemi in da river?? or da ZL-1 tow truck??
....or U da guy dat was gonna take 40 bikers and go buy dat der Yenko Camaro?


seriously, I'm just kidding... I hope the story is all true !!! Would be an awesome car !!!

Re: 1969 Camaro L89 with JL8 option at Kissimmee
 

Thanks for the response. Good to know it is just a story you heard from someone else. Guys that fake these cars tend to put together elaborate stories that are difficult to check out.

Have fun in Maui.

Re: 1969 Camaro L89 with JL8 option at Kissimmee
 

The car sold for $200,000..Wonder where its going??

Re: 1969 Camaro L89 with JL8 option at Kissimmee
 

Possibly to litigation?
[img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/hmmm.gif[/img]
~ Pete

Re: 1969 Camaro L89 with JL8 option at Kissimmee
 

Many times, ignorance is bliss.

Re: 1969 Camaro L89 with JL8 option at Kissimmee
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lynn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not the best image, but just for comparison, a real 09D tag from a spoiler car, although one that has been separated from the car. Look for it to show up on a &quot;real deal&quot; Z/28 one of these days.

Not sure who posted this one, but it was probably for sale on ebay or craigslist at one time. I know the guys at CRG are keeping a database of fake and loose trim tags. </div></div>

Here's one of my cars:

http://www.69lm1.com/x66d80/ttag.jpg

Rich

Re: 1969 Camaro L89 with JL8 option at Kissimmee
 

I didnt stay that long but someone sure got the shaft there. It was a pretty car but I didnt like the block stamps at all. I think most people that have looked for the VIN by the filter would have been suspicious. I saw some cars that the buyers must never have looked over before they bid. Unreal. A buddy and I spent 3 hours under a car last night and this morning that didnt sell and still not sure what to think of it! Narrowed down what is not correct on it anyway.

Re: 1969 Camaro L89 with JL8 option at Kissimmee
 

I've stated before I don't think the car is real.
Docs are fake. Tag is fake. Drivetrain looks restamped.
Thanks Bill for the pics!

Re: 1969 Camaro L89 with JL8 option at Kissimmee
 

This is a sad day for this hobby. As a nice clone car it does, of course, have some value. Maybe $60k or there about. Didn't a nice clone ZL1 recently bring around $50k? It would be a lot harder to come up with a complete ZL1 motor than to put a fake L89 together.

If someone were selling forged Renoir as an &quot;original&quot; Renoir, he would likely be prosecuted.

Re: 1969 Camaro L89 with JL8 option at Kissimmee
 

OH, and yes, great job getting pics Bill.

Re: 1969 Camaro L89 with JL8 option at Kissimmee
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lynn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is a sad day for this hobby. As a nice clone car it does, of course, have some value. Maybe $60k or there about. Didn't a nice clone ZL1 recently bring around $50k? It would be a lot harder to come up with a complete ZL1 motor than to put a fake L89 together.

If someone were selling forged Renoir as an &quot;original&quot; Renoir, he would likely be prosecuted.

</div></div>
As a side, there are NINE 69 SS 396 cars on Ebay right now and by the pics, maybe one of them is a real deal. It makes me sick as none are being advertised as bogus. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery it is said until someone, like myself, would try and sell my real deal car and have to defend it as such with all the fakery out there. Of course, selling is not in the picture for the foreseeable future.

Re: 1969 Camaro L89 with JL8 option at Kissimmee
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lynn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is a sad day for this hobby. As a nice clone car it does, of course, have some value. Maybe $60k or there about. Didn't a nice clone ZL1 recently bring around $50k? It would be a lot harder to come up with a complete ZL1 motor than to put a fake L89 together.

If someone were selling forged Renoir as an &quot;original&quot; Renoir, he would likely be prosecuted.

</div></div>


&quot;Bingo&quot;

Re: 1969 Camaro L89 with JL8 option at Kissimmee
 

Yikes! Can you imagine how badly the broach would have been worn to create those broach marks?

Re: 1969 Camaro L89 with JL8 option at Kissimmee
 

I told my Buddy I hope they used good head gaskets!

Re: 1969 Camaro L89 with JL8 option at Kissimmee
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kwhizz</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lynn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is a sad day for this hobby. As a nice clone car it does, of course, have some value. Maybe $60k or there about. Didn't a nice clone ZL1 recently bring around $50k? It would be a lot harder to come up with a complete ZL1 motor than to put a fake L89 together.

If someone were selling forged Renoir as an &quot;original&quot; Renoir, he would likely be prosecuted.

</div></div>

&quot;Bingo&quot; </div></div>

Or it could be a good day for the hobby if the buyer who after facts surface doesn't appreciate being made a fool of digs in his heels and does something about it?
Not sure which ZL1 clone went for 60 thou recently, perhaps you're thinking of the totally bogus ZL1 motored car that sold for $160 this past fall here in Canada wearing a claimed ZL1 #48 identity?
As for as the Renoir comparisons, in the art world crooks in cahoots buy each other's bogus 'works' at auction when real buyers don't appear touting them as genuine and great buys etc regardless of controversy.
These fraud pieces are put back on the block or held for a while first depending on how much of a kerfuffle ensued when last offered then another whirl given to find real money buyers.
Whether real buyers or crooks passing each other's items around the auction houses make their commisions so obviously they're better off financially to say nothing especially when if a refund is necessary they still get to keep their $.
Sound familiar?
[img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/bs.gif[/img]
~ Pete

Re: 1969 Camaro L89 with JL8 option at Kissimmee
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PeteLeathersac</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kwhizz</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lynn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is a sad day for this hobby. As a nice clone car it does, of course, have some value. Maybe $60k or there about. Didn't a nice clone ZL1 recently bring around $50k? It would be a lot harder to come up with a complete ZL1 motor than to put a fake L89 together.

If someone were selling forged Renoir as an &quot;original&quot; Renoir, he would likely be prosecuted.

</div></div>

&quot;Bingo&quot; </div></div>

Or it could be a good day for the hobby if the buyer who after facts surface doesn't appreciate being made a fool of digs in his heels and does something about it?
Not sure which ZL1 clone went for 60 thou recently, perhaps you're thinking of the totally bogus ZL1 motored car that sold for $160 this past fall here in Canada wearing a claimed ZL1 #48 identity?
As for as the Renoir comparisons, in the art world crooks in cahoots buy each other's bogus 'works' at auction when real buyers don't appear touting them as genuine and great buys etc regardless of controversy.
These fraud pieces are put back on the block or held for a while first depending on how much of a kerfuffle ensued when last offered then another whirl given to find real money buyers.
Whether real buyers or crooks passing each other's items around the auction houses make their commisions so obviously they're better off financially to say nothing especially when if a refund is necessary they still get to keep their $.
Sound familiar?
[img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/bs.gif[/img]
~ Pete

Lot F254 in the Mecum auction on Friday was a ZL 1 clone that sold for $ 62k. Very nice car with a lot of original parts including an original 69 block.
I talked to the guy and his wife, from Houston, that bought it and they were ecstatic and couldn't believe it sold for that price. There was a HO 69 L 72 clone that later bid to $70 and was a no sale, go figure.


http://www.mecum.com/auctions/lot_detail...mp;startRow=281




</div></div>

Re: 1969 Camaro L89 with JL8 option at Kissimmee
 

a stigma will be attached to this car forever. I wonder who bought it.? at 200k im sure the buyer felt it was a real car. If the car sold for clone money i think the seller would be off the hook.
someone here must know who bought the car???

Re: 1969 Camaro L89 with JL8 option at Kissimmee
 

That's the one I was thinking of Verne.

Nice car for the money.

The fake L89 car in question would be worth about that, if properly represented.

Wonder if Mr. Edward J. (Jack) O'Donnell kept the original trim tag from car 690139?

Re: 1969 Camaro L89 with JL8 option at Kissimmee
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bergy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yikes! Can you imagine how badly the broach would have been worn to create those broach marks? </div></div>

You mean to say how sharp the blades were...[img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/grin.gif[/img]

Re: 1969 Camaro L89 with JL8 option at Kissimmee
 

...looks like you can have one now built for 20% of the auction price...
Ebay Ad Pics

Re: 1969 Camaro L89 with JL8 option at Kissimmee
 

In the art world an auction house would be sure if the painting they sell is legit, it would ruin their name for ever if they sold a fake. And they would commit an illegal act. Apparently not a problem in the auto auction world...


Can't just about anybody call the FBI on this auction company, evidence in this case i clear.


Jan

Re: 1969 Camaro L89 with JL8 option at Kissimmee
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Born30YrsLate</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...looks like you can have one now built for 20% of the auction price...
Ebay Ad Pics </div></div>

The first 8 or 9 photos are from the Mecum auction ad. Wonder if those guys built the O'Donnell car.

Re: 1969 Camaro L89 with JL8 option at Kissimmee
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jannes_z-28</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In the art world an auction house would be sure if the painting they sell is legit, it would ruin their name for ever if they sold a fake. And they would commit an illegal act. Apparently not a problem in the auto auction world...


Can't just about anybody call the FBI on this auction company, evidence in this case i clear.


Jan </div></div>
The auction companies all state clearly on the descriptions that all of the information is provided by and represented by the seller and not the auction. That way it keeps them out of the &quot;misrepresented&quot; trouble.

Re: 1969 Camaro L89 with JL8 option at Kissimmee
 

Does mecum or seller put estimated value in listing? If it's mecum they should research the cars. Trim tag was easy to see

Re: 1969 Camaro L89 with JL8 option at Kissimmee
 

There is no way for the auction companies to vet all the vehicles that come through. While I can't appreciate the &quot;nod and wink&quot; approach that they all take, the REAL culpability is on the guys misrepresenting the cars.

Re: 1969 Camaro L89 with JL8 option at Kissimmee
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lynn</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> the REAL culpability is on the guys misrepresenting the cars. </div></div>

This is the problem that American's suffer from today: &quot;Who can this be blamed on?&quot; Obviously it's never anyone's own fault these days. You are always going to have frauds and cheats. That's a given. It's the buyers fault. Anyone who puts their trust into someone or something that barely know anything about and then get burned by it, it's their own fault. Responsibility ultimately falls on the person forking over the cash.

Re: 1969 Camaro L89 with JL8 option at Kissimmee
 

With the internet and access to information that we have today, there is no one else to blame but yourself for not doing the research, asking questions, and finding a knowledgeable appraiser.

Re: 1969 Camaro L89 with JL8 option at Kissimmee
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lynn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is no way for the auction companies to vet all the vehicles that come through. While I can't appreciate the &quot;nod and wink&quot; approach that they all take, the REAL culpability is on the guys misrepresenting the cars. </div></div>

Thanks Lynn...I agree.

Re: 1969 Camaro L89 with JL8 option at Kissimmee
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fast67VelleN2O</div><div class="ubbcode-body">With the internet and access to information that we have today, there is no one else to blame but yourself for not doing the research, asking questions, and finding a knowledgeable appraiser. </div></div>

Exactly!