Re: stolen camaro found out of state
 

Bring back the day's of having a Justice System in our Country.........Instead of a Legal System where there is no Black or White.........Where's Detective Joe Friday when you need him!!!

Re: stolen camaro found out of state
 

Who here would restore a car without having a title? Stupidity is not an excuse. I feel sorry for the kid, but this is his fathers fault.

Re: stolen camaro found out of state
 

Read part of the thread at NastyZ. Also read the second owner's build thread. The pics below are from a link in that build thread. Several posts assume the new guy put an engine in it. He did not. I am 100% certain we do not have all the facts. Here is what the smart a$$ in me wants to say:

The new "owner" decided to replace the factory muncie 4 speed that came with the car, but was not installed, with an automatic. Not sure if the tranny was numbers matching, but it AND the engine that was in it but not running (only needed a distributor and some tlc apparently) may be. Again, don't have all the facts. Anyway, clearly the Camaro gods simply pooped on his parade for dissing the 4 speed. Instant Karma and all that.

Now that I got that bit of foolishness off my chest, as stated, we simply don't have all the facts. Second "owner" says the title was "clean as a whislte." He may be a perfectly honest gentleman. I have no reason to believe otherwise. I SUSPECT "clean as a whistle" means no research into previous owners. Hmmm, you say, why would I want to research previous owners on a car with a clean title? Take a look at the picture below. Notice anything missing from that column? Why yes, it is the KEY CYLINDER!!!! If I am looking at a car without the key cylinder, I am going to do some real digging into its history. Not saying the guy didn't do that. Just saying there was certainly a big enough red flag to warrant some serious investigation.

Regardless of whether the 2nd owner SHOULD HAVE OR ACTUALLY DID DO THE INVESTIGATION, the original owner, if he is in fact the owner, gets his car back.

One last thing. Everyone keeps saying they need to go after the thief. While I agree, I also believe they need to go after the scum bag that "created" the new "clean as a whistle" title. Had to be some fraud involved in getting that done.

Re: stolen camaro found out of state
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kwhizz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bring back the day's of having a Justice System in our Country.........Instead of a Legal System where there is no Black or White.........Where's Detective Joe Friday when you need him!!! </div></div>



Today...your guilty until proven innocent.

Re: stolen camaro found out of state
 

Poor kid....

Re: stolen camaro found out of state
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 70 copo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Poor kid.... </div></div>

No kidding. Hope they catch the pus gargling wank that stole the car to begin with. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/bs.gif[/img]

Re: stolen camaro found out of state
 

That steering column should have gotten someone's spider senses tingling! As in no ignition cylinder. I personally have never bought a car without an ignition cylinder.

Re: stolen camaro found out of state
 

Every time I read stories like this I'm amazed on how it is possible in a country like the USA to be able to title a stolen car.

Why aren't the car registry under control by federal government? Why can't a state registry check into another states records? Why isn't a cars stolen report spread to all other states for them to check before giving out a title?

It is clearly an administrative fault by your government.


Something like this could never happen over here, no way. Only way would be to change the VIN to one from a non stolen scraped car.

By a system like ours there is no market for stolen cars here, stolen cars are taken out of the country and sold in Russia or other former Soviet countries.


Jan

Re: stolen camaro found out of state
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jannes_z-28</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Every time I read stories like this I'm amazed on how it is possible in a country like the USA to be able to title a stolen car.

Why aren't the car registry under control by federal government? Why can't a state registry check into another states records? Why isn't a cars stolen report spread to all other states for them to check before giving out a title?

It is clearly an administrative fault by your government.


Something like this could never happen over here, no way. Only way would be to change the VIN to one from a non stolen scraped car.

By a system like ours there is no market for stolen cars here, stolen cars are taken out of the country and sold in Russia or other former Soviet countries.


Jan </div></div>

With all due respect Jan, our government can't even build a website. 9 out of 10 times your proposal would make it worse.........

Re: stolen camaro found out of state
 

Our states each want to be in control of something and the revenue it generates. Can't blame them for wanting to keep it local. Our problem in Ohio. Is Columbus gets a big road project done then rest of us away from town have horrible roads.
No reason a stolen car data base couldn't work.
Doesn't help when some states allowed a bill of sale like the recent zl-1 that was sold. I think was in Georgia. No title needed there

Re: stolen camaro found out of state
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jannes_z-28</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

By a system like ours there is no market for stolen cars here, <span style="font-weight: bold">stolen cars are taken out of the country and sold in Russia or other former Soviet countries.</span>
</div></div>

And that's better how???? [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/hmmm.gif[/img]

Re: stolen camaro found out of state
 

A. The US Federal Govt is inept at most everything.
B. The states' rights have been stripped away at every turn over the last 100 years.
C. Sometimes there are just crappy situations where someone wins, someone loses, and sometimes both win, and sometimes both lose (this situation, seemingly).
D. Life ain't fair, but if you do your due diligence, most of the time you can sniff out situations that just don't seem right and avoid them.

JMO

Re: stolen camaro found out of state
 

It ain't JYO........

Re: stolen camaro found out of state
 

x3

Re: stolen camaro found out of state
 

How's this for a perfect example:

http://news.yahoo.com/special-report-pen...--business.html

Re: stolen camaro found out of state
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kwhizz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bring back the day's of having a Justice System in our Country.........Instead of a Legal System where there is no Black or White.........Where's Detective Joe Friday when you need him!!! </div></div>

Yep. Your post was exactly my first thought after reading the post above yours. Where is the Justice in our system today? If you do no wrong, you should be protected; if you do wrong, you should be punished. Too simple I guess.

Verne [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/rolleyes.gif[/img]

Re: stolen camaro found out of state
 

Well I am on my way back to Georgia with my car. I went with $10,000 cash in hand to do what others seem to be moraly right. But when I saw my car I realized what bad advise some had shared with this man, because now he has made the biggest mistake of his life. Thats all I can say for now.. Wil post all those picture when the feds are done.

Re: stolen camaro found out of state
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: combackcamaro</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well I am on my way back to Georgia with my car. I went with $10,000 cash in hand to do what others seem to be moraly right. But when I saw my car I realized what bad advise some had shared with this man, because now he has made the biggest mistake of his life. Thats all I can say for now.. Wil post all t<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"></div></div>hose picture when the feds are done. </div></div>Great news glad you did not give that joker a penny!!

Re: stolen camaro found out of state
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: old5.0</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jannes_z-28</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

By a system like ours there is no market for stolen cars here, <span style="font-weight: bold">stolen cars are taken out of the country and sold in Russia or other former Soviet countries.</span>
</div></div>

And that's better how???? [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/hmmm.gif[/img] </div></div>

Well at least you can't drive around in a stolen car for 10 years believing you bought it fair. If you consider the first part of my post it is very strange that situations like this can happen in the first place.

The stolen cars going to Eastern Europe are new BMW's Merc's and other high priced cars. Most of them have tracking devices and are in most cases found before they cross the borders.

Old cars like ours are not of interest for the criminals.

Re: stolen camaro found out of state
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: combackcamaro</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well I am on my way back to Georgia with my car. I went with $10,000 cash in hand to do what others seem to be moraly right. But when I saw my car I realized what bad advise some had shared with this man, because now he has made the biggest mistake of his life. Thats all I can say for now.. Wil post all t<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"></div></div>hose picture when the feds are done. </div></div>

You just knew the guy with the car was going to get too self assured by all the people on forums telling him what he &quot;should do&quot; while he continued to pour money into what was becoming obvious--that he was in possession of stolen property.

He must have really pissed you off ..looking forward to the details.

Re: stolen camaro found out of state
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: combackcamaro</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well I am on my way back to Georgia with my car. I went with $10,000 cash in hand to do what others seem to be moraly right. But when I saw my car I realized what bad advise some had shared with this man, because now he has made the biggest mistake of his life. Thats all I can say for now.. Wil post all t<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"></div></div>hose picture when the feds are done. </div></div>

He must have stripped everything off the car.

Re: stolen camaro found out of state
 

That's pretty much what I warned the &quot;advisers&quot; against doing, on the other site, who were saying they would pull everything off. But, hey, free legal advice is worth every penny you paid for it!

I essentially said that if anything is removed, now that is known to have been stolen, the &quot;remover&quot; could get charged with all sorts of charges in several states, such as accessory after the fact, possession of stolen property, additional theft charges, etc. And these would be felony grand theft charges since the value is over $1,000. And top it off with the fact that the car traveled across state lines and you have the federal offense of Interstate Transportation of Stolen Property.

Sounds like the present &quot;owner&quot; did something not-so-wise and the locals and possibly the feds, dog-piled on him. Very sad outcome for that guy.

Re: stolen camaro found out of state
 

wow...

Re: stolen camaro found out of state
 

Yea... Lets all celebrate a 16yo kid is now probably forever burned on muscle cars. It might be Illegal but in what moral world would anyone be happy that the kid lost thousands of dollars on parts, all for those parts to be given to the original owner who did not buy them?

And shame on the OP here, the feds and any local LEO's and DA if they go after this kid for taking off the parts that he bought (as long as they did not damage the car in any way).

Based on what the OP said, I question that statement that he went there with 10k to give the father/son. Why not tell them up front?

Here he says he does not want to deal with the current person:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: combackcamaro</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <span style="text-decoration: underline">Detective ask me to call man whom has my car, see if we can work out some kinda agreement.</span> That he had invested alot of $ into restoring. When he purchased no transmission, gas tank, fuel lines, steering wheel, drive shaft, gear shift, dashboard, rear end,&amp; list goes on. Hum sounds me like the theift made some big bucks! <span style="font-weight: bold">I told detective I just want my car back</span>.</div></div>

Here he says that it is too bad for the kid, he gets all of the investments into the car, even those he KNOWS were not on the car when stolen and bought by the dad/kid:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: combackcamaro</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> sadly for him thank god for me is any investments put into car he the purchaser has to go back after the seller.</div></div>

Rich

Re: stolen camaro found out of state
 

I don't know that anyone is celebrating.

Still would like to hear ALL of the facts.

Do I feel bad for the 16 year old? Absolutely (at least as far as I know).

Do I feel bad for his dad? I have no idea, because I don't know what he knew and when he knew it.

When I was 20, I had a chance to buy a gorgeous citrus green 70Z. Engine and tranny were missing. Rest of the car was cherry. Car was 1 year old. $500. Black and white houndstooth interior. Guy couldn't wait to give me the keys and have me sign a bill of sale. He said I could easily get it titled with that bill of sale. Hmmm. Even at age 20, I knew something was wrong. Whole thing was too good to be true. I passed. Car turned out to be stolen.

I am NOT saying the dad knew or should have known. I don't think we have all the facts.

Also, if the dad did buy this car on the up and up, and did get paperwork from the seller, he has recourse.

Re: stolen camaro found out of state
 

Granted Lynn. I'd also like to know more about what the Dad knew and when.

However, that does not justify the moral position of the OP taking parts he knows he did not purchase and basically saying too bad for the dad/kid.

If he was going to offer the dad/son 10k, why didn't he start off talking to them as the officer suggested? By the OP's own words the officer who inspected the car stated that the father/son invested thousands of dollars into the car (again if the Dad knew it was stolen that's a different story) and suggested that the OP and Dad try and work something fair out.

That's what should have morally happened IMO.

Instead the OP stated that he had no interest in working anything out, he just wanted the car back as is, based on the law. He also stated he was getting the upgrades on the car and the father/son would have to go after the seller.

Now all of a sudden he was going to offer 10k to the father and son? Sorry, I don't think I believe him based on what he said here.

I'd also like to know more on how the father/son bought the car............ Maybe that guy will start a thread over at Camaros.org or something [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif[/img]

Rich

Re: stolen camaro found out of state
 

I don't know that I disagree with anything you have stated Rich.

I would LIKE to know all the facts. I don't KNOW that we ever will.

Re: stolen camaro found out of state
 

[img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/bs.gif[/img] on the OP taking 10k to compensate the kid and his dad. I believe he said he couldn't afford &quot;anything&quot; earlier in this or a thread on another site. Hate the thieves for putting everyone in the positions they're in. In terms of us, I don't think we know enough to judge anyone. That kid sure looked happy in the earlier pic and we all feel for him I'm sure.

Re: stolen camaro found out of state
 

Its sad seeing everyone on this page assume this and that. I thought this group was bigger than that. Just sayin is all. I feel bad for everyone involved in some shape and way of this story.

Re: stolen camaro found out of state
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jannes_z-28</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why aren't the car registry under control by federal government? Why can't a state registry check into another states records? Why isn't a cars stolen report spread to all other states for them to check before giving out a title?

It is clearly an administrative fault by your government.</div></div>
The US does have a system. All stolen cars should be entered in the NICB database. All states should check the database before issuing a title on a car.
Obviously, somewhere that system failed.

Re: stolen camaro found out of state
 

Maybe I missed something...but I dont think so. The system did not fail. The guy has had the car in his possession since august of 2012. He says he checked into it and the title was clear??? Sure you did!!! In July of this year he tried to get a title and found out it was stolen. Now 4 mos later the guy is on the Z site asking the internet for help? In my opinion this whole situation was of purchasers making. This kids father made all the wrong moves from day one. The only thing here that failed is common sence.

Re: stolen camaro found out of state
 

It APPEARS that is correct. Like I keep saying, I don't know that we have all the facts.

I have looked at a couple cars over the years with question marks. You can write down the vin and call your local police to make sure it is not stolen.

Re: stolen camaro found out of state
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kurt S</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jannes_z-28</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why aren't the car registry under control by federal government? Why can't a state registry check into another states records? Why isn't a cars stolen report spread to all other states for them to check before giving out a title?

It is clearly an administrative fault by your government.</div></div>
The US does have a system. All stolen cars should be entered in the NICB database. All states should check the database before issuing a title on a car.
Obviously, somewhere that system failed. </div></div>

I have an FBI fraud investigator AND a NJ State police detective working on getting NICB info for my car,and both have said that there is no record of the car ever being made. So much for guys saying that NICB knows all sorts of stuff about our cars. I don't think the database is as complete as people think.