Re: Mecum Auction 68 L89 Camaro
 

That guy is smart.((( Dont restamp vin numbers)). Ask a few ohio dealers( mid year corvettes) about that.

Re: Mecum Auction 68 L89 Camaro
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TimG</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Of course, there are some &quot;virgin&quot; over the counter blocks that have original broach marks. These would not have to be ground to stamp them. One well known 67 L88 that lost its motor has a correct build stamp long block in it. The person that had the car restored years ago chose not to stamp the VIN on the block. </div></div>

yes, I have a correct dated virgin NOS complete 67 Z28 302 with the broach marks and date code and MO stamp for my 67 Z28, It has never been stamped with a VIN. (and never will)...
....those types would be hard blocks to tell a non-original Vin stamp if done correctly... [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/dunno.gif[/img]

Re: Mecum Auction 68 L89 Camaro
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: iluv69s</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TimG</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Of course, there are some &quot;virgin&quot; over the counter blocks that have original broach marks. These would not have to be ground to stamp them. One well known 67 L88 that lost its motor has a correct build stamp long block in it. The person that had the car restored years ago chose not to stamp the VIN on the block. </div></div>

yes, I have a correct dated virgin NOS complete 67 Z28 302 with the broach marks and date code and MO stamp for my 67 Z28, It has never been stamped with a VIN. (and never will)...
....those types would be hard blocks to tell a non-original Vin stamp if done correctly... [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/dunno.gif[/img] </div></div>

I've already begun the process of setting up some experiments. I'll add this scenario to the list. Perhaps we can figure out a technology to &quot;date&quot; a stamp. A 40 yr old stamp may appear different under certain conditions than a 5 yr old stamp? We'll stamp virgin iron and see if we can detect a difference.

Re: Mecum Auction 68 L89 Camaro
 

Not that I would know anything about this.....But....In the old days (Mid 60's).....If the Police thought you had a engine in your car that was restamped with new #'s......they would heat up the number pad with a torch and then apply acid of some type......if the pad were messed with....the old stampings #'s would somewhat come thru.........Just Say'in.....

Re: Mecum Auction 68 L89 Camaro
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kwhizz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not that I would know anything about this.....But....In the old days (Mid 60's).....If the Police thought you had a engine in your car that was restamped with new #'s......they would heat up the number pad with a torch and then apply acid of some type......if the pad were messed with....the old stampings #'s would somewhat come thru.........Just Say'in..... </div></div>

Thats the process Im talking about..im sure the police use it on guns that have numbers tampered with too...I also saw a vette for sale a few years ago(maybe a 67 L89 or L88?) that had this process done to the block and the frame if I recall..?? to prove it was never restamped..?

Re: Mecum Auction 68 L89 Camaro
 

And if the numbers are not messed with, does this process of heat and acid ruin the original numbers???

Re: Mecum Auction 68 L89 Camaro
 

Yeah - like I said, the stress created by the original stamping could cause a slight distortion in heat propagation. It's not like a weld where the specific heat of the base and weld material is actually different (and shows more dramatic temperature differential). I'm not a PhD though - just bach. &amp; mast. in material science. I'd love to see it work!

Re: Mecum Auction 68 L89 Camaro
 

What I'm told will be observable is a difference in the rate of cooling. I guess the science is that the iron beneath the stamp has been altered (density maybe?) as a result of the original stamping and will therefore cool at a rate different from that of the surrounding iron. He actually thinks he may be able to discern a newer stamp from an older one. We're going to do some experiments and I will post results. Initial meeting Thursday.

Re: Mecum Auction 68 L89 Camaro
 

Instead of going through all this,why not just ask the owner about the history of the car?






[img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/wink.gif[/img]

Re: Mecum Auction 68 L89 Camaro
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ZiggyL78</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Instead of going through all this,why not just ask the owner about the history of the car?






[img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/wink.gif[/img] </div></div>

I think they are going to test other motors for future comparisons. I dont believe they have access to the car in question..or it's owner at the moment. And most of these cars do not have verified owner history. If so, that would most likely be publicized in the ad.

Re: Mecum Auction 68 L89 Camaro
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: iluv69s</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ZiggyL78</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Instead of going through all this,why not just ask the owner about the history of the car?






[img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/wink.gif[/img] </div></div>

I think they are going to test other motors for future comparisons. I dont believe they have access to the car in question..or it's owner at the moment. And most of these cars do not have verified owner history. If so, that would most likely be publicized in the ad. </div></div>

Correct, we will conduct tests on other motors, unless someone nearby wants to offer up their known restamp. Otherwise, I have a compromised, unusable 1969 dated GM block that we will test first as originally stamped, then grind the numbers down, test again, then restamp and test again. Basically, collecting &quot;signatures&quot; for each condition. He would prefer to test several blocks so I'm stopping by the local machine shop today for more subjects. It/they will then go to the scrapyard across the street.

Re: Mecum Auction 68 L89 Camaro
 

i dont think any owners are going to let anyone go at their stamp pad with a torch. A torch sometimes will make a fake stamp disappear( numbers will fall off) and the original will show thru. Bare block on a stand

Re: Mecum Auction 68 L89 Camaro
 

It's not a torch.......it's a special camera

Re: Mecum Auction 68 L89 Camaro
 

http://www.camaros.org/public/acidetch.txt is the acid procedure. It works, but results are not amazing.

About the car - it's the one that Phil looked at back in 2006.
Restamped pad and repro POP.

Re: Mecum Auction 68 L89 Camaro
 

The AD say ((original)) order invoice+POP. i wonder if it had those back in 2006.? If i was interested i would walk that invoice to a document examiner and have it tested.

Re: Mecum Auction 68 L89 Camaro
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mr 707</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The AD say ((original)) order invoice+POP. i wonder if it had those back in 2006.? If i was interested i would walk that invoice to a document examiner and have it tested. </div></div>



If there are 'new' docs. I would show them to Kurt S...if they are the same docs from 2006...Kurt has already spoken..enough said.

Re: Mecum Auction 68 L89 Camaro
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kurt S</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
About the car - it's the one that Phil looked at back in 2006.
Restamped pad and repro POP. </div></div>

To confirm, this is VIN 124678N471283 ?

[img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/hmmm.gif[/img]
~ Pete

Re: Mecum Auction 68 L89 Camaro
 

[quote
About the car - it's the one that Phil looked at back in 2006.
Restamped pad and repro POP. [/quote]

Ouch. Are the L89's going to go the way of the 69 Z? More restamps than originals?

Re: Mecum Auction 68 L89 Camaro
 

I re-read the ad and the ad says
...'original invoice and protecto-plate'
...also says 'complete owner history'


seems rather straightforward.... [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/dunno.gif[/img]

Re: Mecum Auction 68 L89 Camaro
 

Charley's there..........Maybe he will take a look at it!!

Re: Mecum Auction 68 L89 Camaro
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kwhizz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Charley's there..........Maybe he will take a look at it!! </div></div>

But Ken...you are the authority on aluminum headed big blocks.. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/rolleyes.gif[/img]

Re: Mecum Auction 68 L89 Camaro
 

Only Nova's with 074 heads...........and &quot;other&quot; things......LOL

Re: Mecum Auction 68 L89 Camaro
 

We have the Thermal-IR device in hand and are ready to begin testing, likely this weekend. What size are the characters in a stamp? Need to order a stamping kit...Thought they were 1/4&quot;?

Re: Mecum Auction 68 L89 Camaro
 

ill be up looking at it on saturday.

Re: Mecum Auction 68 L89 Camaro
 

No sale at 125k.....did anyone get to see the 'original invoice and protecto-plate and owner history ???


...... but the 'L-89 Nova' sold for 190 k !!!

Re: Mecum Auction 68 L89 Camaro
 

i looked at it I think kurt said it all on this car

Re: Mecum Auction 68 L89 Camaro
 

Re: Mecum Auction 68 L89 Camaro
 

Engine stamp.

Re: Mecum Auction 68 L89 Camaro
 

owner history sounds legit..??

Re: Mecum Auction 68 L89 Camaro
 

Does this stamp look correct?

Re: Mecum Auction 68 L89 Camaro
 

I would also like to know what the consensus from this group is on this particular engine stamp.

I'm not an expert by any means but am sort of surprised by its appearance.

Thanks in advance.

John.......

Love car BTW......

Re: Mecum Auction 68 L89 Camaro
 

Not an expert? Haven't you had some restamping and fake paperwork done for yourself?


Jason

Re: Mecum Auction 68 L89 Camaro
 

Is more from this group really necessary?
The realities of this car noted earlier are from a credible source also very clearly put.

[img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/burnout.gif[/img]
~ Pete

VIN 124678N471283

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kurt S</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
About the car - it's the one that Phil looked at back in 2006.
Restamped pad and repro POP. </div></div>

Re: Mecum Auction 68 L89 Camaro
 

After reading the newly posted article and the owner history, I am still interested about the 'original invoice' and if it is an 'original' L-89 car....has anyone seen the invoice?

Re: Mecum Auction 68 L89 Camaro
 

<span style="font-weight: bold">Not an expert? Haven't you had some restamping and fake paperwork done for yourself?


Jason:
</span>
Yes....

But I still don't consider myself an expert...
I’m not going to beat around the bush….Personally I don't like the engine pad,It looks like a restamp to me.Very poor job...


<span style="font-weight: bold">Is more from this group really necessary?
The realities of this car noted earlier are from a credible source also very clearly put.


~ Pete</span>

VIN 124678N471283

Originally Posted By: Kurt S

About the car - it's the one that Phil looked at back in 2006.
Restamped pad and repro POP.


Thank you Pete…this confirms my opinion.

Re: Mecum Auction 68 L89 Camaro
 

I was there at the auction,saw the car. Nice car. if I was going to bid on this rare beauty
I would want verification of all the previous owners. especially if I am expected to pay around
200 big ones. And If I was the owner and wanted big money I would provide that info .

while at this car auction I noticed how many rare cars had mostly repro parts on them
Real nice rests too. not one 70 chevelle Ls6 had all its orig parts that I saw.

I wonder thought how many people would recognize a chevelle with all of its born with orig parts
PJ

Re: Mecum Auction 68 L89 Camaro
 

Just got a hold of the represented &quot;original paperwork&quot; for this alleged 1968 L89 Camaro convertible. I'm curious as to everyones opinion on these documents. I find them both way too clean, no yellowing, no ink residue on POP from roller at service, no frayed corners on paper invoice or POP booklet, infact the metal protectoplate doesn't have ANY aging whatsoever that I can see, surprising for a 40+ year piece of raw metal. I also never saw an invoice before with the interior color specified, and surprised that it specifies a wood wheel and a car of this caliber is restored without that specified option. Also unusual is that it's a 3.07 posi. Why would someone order an aluminum head 396 + M22 rock crusher and non-performance gears like that. To top it off the code on the POP for the rear end is BR1213G (Dec 13th). If that is 12/13/1968 then the rear doesn't match as that date is after the car was sold, which was 7/27/68. If it is 12/13/67 then I am concerned about why it would have sat around for 6-7 months (6 months prior to the date code of the block which is 06/17/68). As to the engine stamp, the alignment of the characters looks suspect to me. The spacing between the &quot;1&quot; and &quot;7&quot; on the left side stamp seems wider than the other characters and the spacing between the &quot;7&quot; and the &quot;M&quot; seems too close. Also, why is the alignment of the last three numbers of the VIN &quot;283&quot; slighly lower than the other characters and why is the spacing between the &quot;4&quot; &quot;7&quot; &quot;1&quot; wider than the spacing of the &quot;2&quot; &quot;8&quot; &quot;3&quot;?

Tell me what you think about the authenticity of this &quot;original documentation&quot; and &quot;engine stamp&quot; please. Thanks

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...6-6146-pop.jpg
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...47-invoice.jpg
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...lock_stamp.jpg

Re: Mecum Auction 68 L89 Camaro
 

Surely someone can give their opinion on the above paperwork? People have asked to see this paperwork, so here it is. Is it real or not? Thanks

Re: Mecum Auction 68 L89 Camaro
 

Just curious..what is the build date on the cowl tag...O7_ ?

BIG

Re: Mecum Auction 68 L89 Camaro
 

Just an outsider looking in. I have looked at several p-o-p's and I have never seen one that clean &amp; crisp if it is suppose to be 45 years old. Also the acid in your hands would cause the metal to dull even if only handled sparingly over time it would still tarnish even slightly, glue/adhesive holding the plate to the paper will also darken with age. Paper will age and discolor unless docs were sealed away from air and the elements (which I just don't see happening). But then again who am I. As for the engine pad; it is blatantly obvious is has been decked &amp; restamped.