Re: 1969 Camaro Trunk paint
 

I used john Berlages trunk paint on my 69 Z28 The american camaro ass, concourse judging said that the trunk paint was right

Re: 1969 Camaro Trunk paint
 

I'm taking it that GM doesn't make this anymore....

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g1...ps8bc862d5.jpg

Re: 1969 Camaro Trunk paint
 

YOu do see those for sale on ebay from time to time. Because it isn't dispensed the same as on the assy line, I don't think it is a perfect match. Although, Rick told me it really isn't bad.

Yes, they still make it, although I don't know if it is the same product. New part number is 1051499. Available from GM parts direct for less than $10

Lynn

Re: 1969 Camaro Trunk paint
 

I painted over one of the Zolatone sample boards with John's paint and got better color match I think. If painted over medium grey primer it may work the same. My goal was to not have to apply as heavy a coat of John's paint to cover; over all effect it looks lighter. I think that worked for color but there is more texture to the finish. There are also little black drops in the paint I don't see in the original finish. The black stuff is like petrolium base thick paint that comes out in clumps. I tried adding a little thinner to see if I could reduce it and it dissolved the little paint balls. I will try a pressure pot system next to see if I can get that to work. The little aqua dots I would like to see more round ones also.I have only painted a handfull of cars so any painters advice would be welcomed. The Zolatone looked close on my monitor but side by side not close.
Work in progress,I hope. George

Re: 1969 Camaro Trunk paint
 

This is a very good thread, as we want to get as close as factory. I respect the work of the resto shops that have there way of doing and want to protect their procedures. But i am not going to send a car out and back just for trunk paint. Thanks, keep the R&D coming.

Re: 1969 Camaro Trunk paint
 

Since Bill has already invested in a couple of set ups (and getting pretty darn close I might add) I am purchasing a small 2 qt. pressure pot and gun set up with a 2.0 tip. Will post the results.

Perhaps JohnZ can chime in and confirm if the original stuff was sprayed from a pressure pot at Norwood, where he worked. It would sure help to know which tree to bark up.

Re: 1969 Camaro Trunk paint
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lynn</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Perhaps JohnZ can chime in and confirm if the original stuff was sprayed from a pressure pot at Norwood, where he worked. It would sure help to know which tree to bark up. </div></div>

Yes.. Perhaps he will chime in I would love to hear how it was done at Norwood.

Re: 1969 Camaro Trunk paint
 

great info guys, still haven't painted the trunk in 69 Nova, will have to get some photos of whats left of original paint and get to work!

Re: 1969 Camaro Trunk paint
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NoYenko</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold">John's paint</span></div></div>

Where can you buy this?

Re: 1969 Camaro Trunk paint
 

John Berlage email &quot;r(dot)berlage@comcast(dot)net&quot;. He is slow to respond but he will.
I just talked to him yesterday, he is out of the paint but has more coming in soon.
Be aware that this is inpart waterbase paint and can freeze. George.

Re: 1969 Camaro Trunk paint
 

This is a Very informative topic,that is done well with great participation.
Well done everyone.

Re: 1969 Camaro Trunk paint
 

Is it the same paint as John's?
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/ubbt...20Zolatone.jpg
Looks the same as John's - from &quot;Original Parts Group&quot;
http://www.opgi.com/common/CH26945-lrg.jpg
As previously posted above: http://www.opgi.com/p/chemicals-flui...6/CH26945.html

Re: 1969 Camaro Trunk paint
 

The parts place has it on eBay for$69. Looks like the same stuff.

Re: 1969 Camaro Trunk paint
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 70 copo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lynn</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Perhaps JohnZ can chime in and confirm if the original stuff was sprayed from a pressure pot at Norwood, where he worked. It would sure help to know which tree to bark up. </div></div>

Yes.. Perhaps he will chime in I would love to hear how it was done at Norwood. </div></div>

Unfortunately, John doesn't remember the application method. Probably should give him a pass on this one. It has been 43 years. I am lucky to remember what I did yesterday.

Re: 1969 Camaro Trunk paint
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jl8z28</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I used john Berlages trunk paint on my 69 Z28 The american camaro ass, concourse judging said that the trunk paint was right </div></div>\

What kind of gun? Tip size? Air pressure? Other technique details?

Thanks.

Re: 1969 Camaro Trunk paint
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NoYenko</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here is an old post from 2005, and how I contacted John Berlage.
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/ubbt...topics/94219/3
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My name is John Berlage. I own a Butternut yellow 69 Yenko, as well as a 69 maroon copo. I faced the same problem everyone else is experiencing when it comes to finding a good trunk paint. A couple of years ago i spent year and a half looking for a good source. I stumbled upon and OEM supplier that produced the paint for GM. During my restoration of my yenko, before sandblasting the trunk, I sprayed some of the new paint over the old. I could not tell a difference. The paint in my opinion is the best you can get. I would like everyone to keep in mind that each GM plant did have variation in texture and look. For anyone who is skeptical please email me at [email protected] for pictures of my yenkos trunk.

I would also like to note, since it has come up on this discussion, how you apply the product is critical to how the paint looks. During my search I also discovered that GM used a very specific gun to spray the paint. They used a binks 2001 gun, with a 200 tip, a 66 fluid nozzle and a internal mix aircap.
</div></div> George. </div></div>
George:

The 2100 could be used with either a suction cup or a pressure pot.
Any idea which one they used?
I have an old Binks Model 7 (yeah, it dates me for sure) with three different air caps, but only a 36 fluid nozzle. According to the binks site, the &quot;very heavy&quot; fluids should use a 38 nozzle. I found a 38 fluid nozzle and a 38PM air cap, but no 38 needle.
Unfortunately, I don't know what the different Binks code numbers relate to as far as mm size of tips. The 7 can be used either siphon or pressure.

To make it worse, the 2100 uses a completely different set of code numbers. I think a 66 fluid nozzle for the 2100 is the same size as the 36 on the Model 7.
Any input from paint gun gurus is appreciated.

Re: 1969 Camaro Trunk paint
 

Lynn, I did the same search for the Binks gun and didn't come up with much. I am sure they painted with a pressure pot system fed from a drum of paint. They probably painted it faster than I typed this post. I got the fresh batch of paint from John Berlage and it does lay down smoother/flatter. I have been talking with our local paint store and he suggested thinning with rubbing alcohol rather than water. He also told me years ago they would heat enamel to 100-120 degrees to make it thinner rather than adding reducer. So today I put the fresh batch in a crock pot heated it to 120 and stirred it real well.(<span style="font-weight: bold">This paint is FLAMABLE so be very careful).</span> I used my 2.5 primer gun and the finish laid down much better this time. Last time I sprayed with the gun I maxed out the regulator at 60psi so this time I didn't use the regulator, I dialed the pressure back on the gun inlet. It seems to give me a better pattern on the aqua paint balls when you start the pass. The other thing I was having a problem with before was the thick black globs plugging the top of the siphon tube so I made up sort of a strainer at the bottom to break up the globs but allow the paint balls to pass.I don't know if it will show in these pictures but I think its looking better. I won't be able to match to my friends car as he has it stored away in a bubble till spring. George

Re: 1969 Camaro Trunk paint
 

George. Great work.

You are getting some of the same &quot;stringy&quot; results I did, kind of a cross between the Norwood cars and the LA cars. Still, we are getting close on this.

I just ordered some more berlage paint, but will have to wait for warmer weather, because they won't ship when temps are around freezing or below.

Great idea heating it up a bit.

BTW, I just scored an old, but never used Binks 200 tip with the internal mixing cap for $12.99 with free shipping. If that turns out to be the ticket, I don't mind sharing with you or other members. Not sure that they are still available from Binks.

I will have to put the trunk project on hold because of the weather and waiting for parts, but the good thing is I can do it later.

Headed out to the garage to start installing side glass. Need tinted driver's glass, but that is another thread.

Lynn

Re: 1969 Camaro Trunk paint
 

Lynn, I was playing around with my siphon gun again trying to get more pronounced &amp; larger splatter. Instead of using Johns paint, It's getting too expensive for testing, I painted a dark grey background. I mixed up an Aqua water based paint to try to splatter it. I covered the angled holes in the air cap with tape so the paint wouldn't atomize as good. Used low pressure, so no paint was coming out when I pulled the trigger. When you release the trigger it spits out splatter. Getting closer but not perfect yet. I overlaid my test pattern on the picture of the 5K 69. The second picture, I found on Team Chevelle site was done at Super Sport Sales and I think he has mastered the correct splatter pattern I am looking for.George

Re: 1969 Camaro Trunk paint
 

Again, great work George. I have my 2001 gun and can use it either siphon or pressure pot. I am still waiting on that odd ball tip with the internal mix air cap. The seller sent it parcel post, which means 2 to 3 weeks for delivery. ARGH.

Re: 1969 Camaro Trunk paint
 

Lynn, I was looking for the Binks #200 internal mixing cap and started talking with the guys from &quot;CATechnologies&quot;, a group of guys that were at Binks and started their own company. They were really helpful and knew quite a lot about multicolor paints. I bought a Lynx L100C with 1.8mm-200 internal mix air cap gun for $241. This gun with internal mix cap has to be used with a pressure pot. I tried it today and it works great. I am now getting the pattern and correct size aqua splat with Johns paint. The only original paint I have is my trunk lock to compare to and I posted a picture. Also pictures of the spray equipment and sample. My grey primer background could be a shade darker. George

Re: 1969 Camaro Trunk paint
 

More pictures

Re: 1969 Camaro Trunk paint
 

Hmm. I responded to this post yesterday, but it doesn't show up.

Looks good George.

I wish I had my 200 nozzle. I paid for it Jan 12. Seller apparently mailed it parcel post, but still don't have it.

Looks a lot like the nozzle on your new gun.

Re: 1969 Camaro Trunk paint
 

Well, crap. This is how my luck has gone lately. Looks like I will never see the air cap.
The seller is &quot;no longer a registered user&quot; on ebay, meaning he is suspended, so I am guessing there were others that did not get their items. So... I can't even leave the bugger neg feedback. I did open a case, and will probably get my $12.99 back. Well, hells bells!, I can retire now. Yeah, I would much rather have received the part. Honestly, I hope the guy didn't die or something, keeping him from shipping all the parts.

Anyway, found another nozzle for a reasonable price and should get it next week. Too darn cold to paint lately anyway (except for the 72 degree day we had last Sunday).

Again, such is life. Deal with it, right?

So.... George, how was coverage? I have about 1/2 of the Berlage qt left. If I can get it to feed in the pressure pot, do you think I have a chance of full coverage? Don't mind ordering more paint, but will have to wait on warmer weather.

Thanks again for all your hard work and research in this area. I think we got it. Will post pics when I do my trunk.

Re: 1969 Camaro Trunk paint
 

George:
One other question. You sample looks like three colors, but the latch looks like it only has two. Am attaching pics of original paint on a trunk divider, which admittedly probably didn't get covered quite as well as the rest of the trunk area.

Re: 1969 Camaro Trunk paint
 

Lynn, John Berlage's paint does not cover like the original paint did. Or if you did spray it on to totally cover your primer you would end up with too many aqua splats. I have asked him for the MSDS sheet to find out the make-up of the black tar like product but he won't give it up. I think if you could thin out the black and get it to spray evenly it would work a lot better. I don't like the black splats that you mentioned. The trick is to spray on and match a primer to the background color with the correct sheen. The back ground color also was thick and had a texture to it so you have to apply it accordingly. I bought some paint with I think the correct color and flatness that I was going use as the back ground color. I will spray it today and report back. George.

Re: 1969 Camaro Trunk paint
 

Lynn, In you picture above you mentioned that was the paint on your truck divider. Is that the cardboard piece you are referring to? George

Re: 1969 Camaro Trunk paint
 

Not a camaro but here is what we came up with to do the trunk in my 68 ramrod. This is our own paint mixture combination and a process we developed.

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s...psc8e49c1a.jpg

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s...ps45063724.jpg

Re: 1969 Camaro Trunk paint
 

Yes, the original cardboard trunk divider. It was in the car when they sprayed the trunk. Fisher body installed the rear seat, so I am assuming that divider and the rear seat were in place when the trunk was sprayed with the spatter paint. Same with the package shelf, but I haven't seen any where they painted high enough up to get any on the package shelf. No trace of the red oxide on the divider, so obviously installed after the primer, before the spatter.

Regarding the aqua spatter. Seems like most of what I see doesn't have enough of it. Can you post a pic of one you considered too thick with aqua?

Thanks again for all your work.

Re: 1969 Camaro Trunk paint
 

That looks pretty darn good.

Care to share any details? Water based?

Not being critical, but looks to have just a bit more gloss than what I would like to see.

Shouldn't be hard to take it down a notch.

Lynn

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RamRod350</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not a camaro but here is what we came up with to do the trunk in my 68 ramrod. This is our own paint mixture combination and a process we developed.

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s...psc8e49c1a.jpg

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s...ps45063724.jpg </div></div>

Re: 1969 Camaro Trunk paint
 

Its not actually that glossy. We just did this last night and these photos were taken while it was still wet. I'll take some more shots later and post them up. Its a mixture and process we came up with. It has taken a lot of time in experimenting and expense in materials to get it right. We dont really want to share any secrets as we'll be offering this process to our customers. This is the very first trunk we've done using this process, im sure the process will get tweeked and perfected over time.

Re: 1969 Camaro Trunk paint
 

RamRod, That looks pretty good for your first trunk, I like it. What kind of car &amp; year is that? Can you answer one question for me, Is the splatter sprayed as a seperate procedure? George

Re: 1969 Camaro Trunk paint
 

Lynn, I believe the trunk dividers were installed after the trunk was painted. I don't think they would be installing any trim untill after the painting was completed. Sorry to say; it appears you may trying to match to a resprayed trunk. I have looked at several original trunks and never saw paint on the divider. Here is a picture of my buddies 69Z 30K orig paint car. I also sprayed out the background paint I mentioned and it looks good. It will hold up better than a tinted primer and can easily be mixed. George

Re: 1969 Camaro Trunk paint
 

George. You may be correct. This divider isn't original to my car, but is an original.

However, the pattern sure looks a lot like the original spatter in my trunk.

Re: 1969 Camaro Trunk paint
 

George:

I finally got an internal mix cap for my old Binks gun. The gun can be used pressure or siphon, but like you, I believe it was shot under pressure.

<span style="font-weight: bold">What pressure did you use at the pot?</span>
I was hoping to shoot this weekend, but looks like my weekend is getting cut short by rain and an unplanned trip to Arkansas.

I am really not worried about trying to match a re shoot. My original trunk paint (what is left) looks just like most of the Norwood cars posted, as does the paint on that divider. As I said, the divider did not come out of my car, so there is no indication mine has ever been reshot.

Lynn

Re: 1969 Camaro Trunk paint
 

Lynn,
The internal mixing cap requires pressure to feed it, Pressure at the pot 4-6 psi, pressure at the gun 30-40 psi. Good luck and post your results. I have had to put my trunk paint trials on hold while the rest of the body is finished. George

Re: 1969 Camaro Trunk paint
 

Thanks for the numbers. I would have been WAY off on my first guess.
I understand that for sure.
I am down to minute details before putting the driveline in mine.
I don't think I have enough paint to get the trunk done this weekend, but get in one more practice round before hitting the trunk.

Will still be able to work on the other end.

All your experimenting has really helped out. BTW, I think I got my air cap from the same guys where you bought your gun. They make replecement parts for old binks guns.

I will report on this thread, good or bad.

Re: 1969 Camaro Trunk paint
 

I have my trunk repairs done on the Firebird and would love to paint the trunk correctly instead of resorting to the water based spray bomb methods.

Is there anyone near me in Central Jersey who can do the paint, or loan/rent me the correct spray gun to do it myself?

Re: 1969 Camaro Trunk paint
 

Just used the &quot;Berlage&quot; paint on my 72 Monte Carlo this weekend with a Devilbiss Finish Line HVLP gun with a 1.8 tip.
Got the paint for $69 from &quot;The Parts Place Inc.&quot; Had to do it twice, as the first quart must have frozen at some point and was the consistancy of oatmeal.
Highly recommend laying down a black base first.

Re: 1969 Camaro Trunk paint
 

Dave sweet looking Monte Carlo's. Not easy to get those that straight. Can you take a good close up of your trunk paint for comparision.
It looks great. George