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Here's a few old photos from the 1969 Detroit Auto Show...

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Grant, those are GREAT pictures!! Are those yours, or were they found on the web?

Here's a couple more from 1969:

1st photo - 1969 Trans Am debut at the 1969 Chicago Auto Show. Note the 69 Bird on the turntable in the background, that's the same yellow one from your photo.

2nd photo - 1969 Knafel Pontiac Golden Sabre GTO. Knafel sold these with RAV engines and Hurst wheels. Mr. Knafel claimed he received a batch of 1969 GTO's with FACTORY installed RAV engines, but this has never been proven. Knafel received a great number of RAV crate motors.

3rd photo - 1969 Trans Am in a dealer showroom, this is from an original 1969 Pontiac Newsletter.

4th photo - notice in the background of the 1969 Chicago Auto Show picture, there's a sign that reads, "To win jacket, drop ticket stub here." The jacket was a Judge jacket.

5th photo - Vintage 1969 photo of a Pontiac salesman posing with their new 1969 Judge, all wearing their Judge jackets.

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Those photos were emailed to me from a good friend of mine who knows an older gentleman that worked for Pontiac and actually worked setting up for the different shows back then. He has some really cool items that he saved from back then.

I have an original one of those Judge jacket order forms, I've thought about having some quality copies made of it.

Thanks for posting the photos, those are great!

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Awesome pictures Grant, they really are. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif[/img]

I have tons of vintage Oldsmobile and Buick photos too. We may have to start a thread in the other section(s).

Some more from 1969:

1) Another shot of the yellow 1969 Firebird from the same Detroit Auto Show.

2 &amp; 3) Two photos of the Royal Racing Team's 1969 Firebird. Note that this was not Royal Pontiac anymore, it was &quot;Leader Engineering&quot;. Leader Automotive was owned by George DeLorean (John Z's brother). After Royal Pontiac decided to get away from the high perf conversions business and focus on regular Pontiac sales, chief mechanic Milt Schornack left Royal Pontiac, and hooked up with Leader Automotive. Milt was allowed to keep the Royal trademark though, as he was responsible for the Royal Pontiac Racing Club. Ace Wilson Jr. of Royal Pontiac had no interest in the Bobcat conversions after Jim Wangers left to work for George Hurst.

3) An original Judge jacket, still in the package.

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More great photos! Absolutely, post those other vintage photos when you can... I could look at this stuff all day! [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/grin.gif[/img]

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Oh and by the way, the photo you posted with the new Judge jacket just happens to be from my same friend that I got the auto show photos from. That photo was from his ebay auction and that jacket also came from his same friend that worked for Pontiac. Small world! [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif[/img]

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1) Can't remember who had these pics from the 1970 Chicago Auto Show (photo dated Feb 1970), but this shot of a 70 GTO Pontiac show car is interesting in that it's wearing what appear to be early honeycomb wheels, which didn't come out until 1971.

2) Gene Ingle's 1969 Judge drag car

3 &amp; 4) Proud parents show off their children, and their Pontiacs.

5) This is the same 1969 Firebird as in the above photos, but this was when Royal Pontiac was still involved in high-perf conversions. That's Milt Schornack rowing the gears. This 350 H.O. Firebird was VERY well set up, and was the same car that later ran a RAIV and a RAV. Schornack trailered the 350 H.O. Firebird 2500 miles to race at the Winter Nationals in Pomona CA. He made one pass at an astonishing 12.32 at 113 mph. Apparently that upset some people, most notably Dale Smith from the factory Oldsmobile drag team, and he had the Royal Firebird banned.

[img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif[/img]

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Mike, these are great! That honeycomb wheel on the '70 appears to be a little different than the production wheel. Maybe a prototype?

I really enjoy seeing these old photos of cars when they were new... especially the ones in front of houses, in driveways, etc...

Great stuff! Keep'm coming... [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif[/img]


Here's a scan of two old Polaroids that I got from the original owner of a '69 GP 428HO 4-speed that I had a few years ago. The gentleman told me that he raced early 60's 421 Pontiacs back in the day and collected a few trophies which were displayed across the hood of the GP in these photos when the car was new...

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----Wow, Grant!!! Where did that GP go? Another non-SJ 428/4spd HO unearthed. There just cant be many of these. Do you have a handle on any production figures?

----That Honeycomb appears to be actual aluminum, not rubber faced. I think that would definetly make it a prototype during the 1970 time period, wouldnt it?......Bill S

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Great pics again Grant!

This is what I was hoping the thread would turn out to be, a nice photo album of just vintage Pontiac pics for all to enjoy. I thought it was a great idea for Charlie to make separate forum sections for each manufacturer. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif[/img]

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I'm also shrinking the size of many of these pics so they fit on the screen without having to scroll to the right. Looks like the best size is around 90K.

1) Here's a great shot of a Judge doing the pacing duties at Elkhart Lake.

2) Check out this ad from the late 70's. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/no.gif[/img]

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: olredalert</div><div class="ubbcode-body">----Wow, Grant!!! Where did that GP go? Another non-SJ 428/4spd HO unearthed. There just cant be many of these. Do you have a handle on any production figures?

----That Honeycomb appears to be actual aluminum, not rubber faced. I think that would definetly make it a prototype during the 1970 time period, wouldnt it?......Bill S </div></div>

Bill, I sold the car about three years ago to a friend in IL. Myself and another friend bought the car off ebay in Jan of 2006. It was originally advertised as a 400 4-speed car. The seller was getting lots of questions on the car mainly because of the factory chrome parts on the engine thinking it may be a 428. Well, not only did it turn out to be a 428, it was a 428HO! Of course the bidding got more interesting after that. I wanted to do a full restoration on the car, but ended up selling it. Anyway, its in good hands. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif[/img]

Production figures are 116 total 428HO 4-speed GP's for '69. Of those, 94 had the wide ratio 4-speed (M20) and 22 had the close ratio (M21) with the 3.90 gear only. This car has the wide ratio 4-speed with 3.55 gear. I've yet to discover one of the 22 cars, but that would be the one I'd really like to have. I have a list of 13 documented cars so far that are still around with about a 50/50 split between J's and SJ's. Oh, and if you ever run across a 428HO 3-speed manual car, its 1 of only 3 built with one of them confirmed to have been crushed. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/frown.gif[/img]

That would make sense on the wheel... the honeycombs appear to be larger to me, similar to the new aftermarket wheels that I've seen lately.

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Great photos again, Mike! Yes, Charley did good! Hopefully he wont lock us out for cluttering up this section... [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/grin.gif[/img]

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Love that RA IV Judge ad! [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/Can-I-Have-It.gif[/img]

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Grant, did you know Marvin Minnereck (sp?) from my area (suburbs of Chicago)? Marvin had a silver 1969 Grand Prix 428 HO 4-speed, and I met him while sitting in the staging lanes on a Pontiac Drag Day. After talking to him for a while, I realized he was also the same guy that used to have a beautiful 1965 2+2 ragtop 4-speed back in the 1980's.

1) The 70 Grand Prix, sitting at the 1970 Chicago Auto Show.

2) The proud owner of a new 1972 Hurst SSJ.

3) New owner of &quot;The Humbler&quot;. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif[/img]

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No, I've never heard the name before or of the car. Would love to know more about it!

More great photos! [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif[/img]

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Here is a picture of my dad in front of our 1970 Pontiac Catalina.

http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/n...s/scan0001.jpg

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Great photo! Was that a camp site?

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: olredalert</div><div class="ubbcode-body">----Wow, Grant!!! Where did that GP go? Another non-SJ 428/4spd HO unearthed. There just cant be many of these. Do you have a handle on any production figures?

----That Honeycomb appears to be actual aluminum, not rubber faced. I think that would definetly make it a prototype during the 1970 time period, wouldnt it?......Bill S </div></div>

Bill, it was Andy and I that bought the car off ebay. We went 50/50 on it and then I bought it outright a couple of months later. Initially it was at Andy's place, but that was probably several months before you were there.

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----Stealth,,,I know Marvin well from when Classic Motors was located in Billy Jacobs building on the N/W side of Joliet. The building backed up to the river. Marvin was and is a great guy, and a true Pontiac nutcase. He was a salesman at Jacobs Chevrolet for quite some time. You have only one thing wrong,,,his GP was a 1970. I Know as I saw it many times. I loved the car as it was an original leather car which is soooooo, soooooo rare (silver/blk leather). I actually bought a set of black leather seats for a triple black 69 SJ I had (bought out of Naperville) from Marvin. His 65 2+2 421/4-spd convert was the nicest I have ever seen. I tried to buy it a couple of times, but could never get the job done. Saw Marvin at the 1st MCACN and reminisced about much of this drivel, and met his son who is carrying on the torch. Great, great family......Bill S

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Bill, thanks for the info! I couldn't recall whether Marvin's GP was a 69 or 70. I also remember he had a triple blue 66 (?) GTO. I bumped into him the the day he bought that Goat. It was sitting in the parking lot of our Portillo's, and I caught him just as he was coming out to the car.

His 65 2+2 was quick, ran in the mid-low 13's if I recall.

Didn't Marvin and Bob A. own Classic Motors together? I recall they restored a 70 W-30 442 that made a magazine, lost track of them after that.

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Thought I'd add another photo or two, with the Grand Prix theme:

1) 1970 Chicago Auto Show

2) 1972 Chicago Auto Show

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Some salesmen items from Pontiac:

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-----Marvin was never related to Classic Motors. He just used to stop by every now and then, and Im not sure who Bob A would be. Marvins 2+2 did run as the motor was twisted a bit (maybe more than a bit). I remember him telling me it had a McKeller cam and it did have a lope to it......Bill S

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Bill, PM sent. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif[/img]

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Some 1968 GTO stuff:

1) Promotional photo for the Endura bumper basher commercial.

2) Little League player takes a shot at a 68 GTO bumper.

3) Endura Bumper kit sent to dealers, consisting of a baseball bat in a cardboard tube. The label states, &quot;One Endura Bumper Kit&quot;.

4) New 1968 GTO in Verdoro Green.

Mike

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Those auto show photos are so cool! [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif[/img]

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&quot;Endura Bumper Kit&quot;... [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/haha.gif[/img] Great stuff! That sales promotional stuff is great too! I collect a few pieces myself.

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Ok, had to find a couple here for Bill. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/grin.gif[/img]

1) 1964 Grand Prix - note the 421 badges

2) Passionate Poncho III

3) Passionate Poncho III with Beswick

4) Larry Johnson's altered wheelbase

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Couple of 1965 Royal Pontiac GTO's doing battle. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif[/img]

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: olredalert</div><div class="ubbcode-body">----Wow, Grant!!! Where did that GP go? Another non-SJ 428/4spd HO unearthed. There just cant be many of these. Do you have a handle on any production figures?

----That Honeycomb appears to be actual aluminum, not rubber faced. I think that would definetly make it a prototype during the 1970 time period, wouldnt it?......Bill S </div></div>

not sure what year it was, but I took these at the Woodward Dream Cruise &quot;pre- Cruise&quot; night 3 years ago to the day:

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a26...wwdcgp4spd.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a26...dcgp4spdin.jpg

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I've actually seen this car in person, it was at the POCI/GTOAA co-vention in Dayton Ohio 2009. Its a very sharp looking GP! Its a '70 SJ 455 4-speed with black leather interior. Thanks for posting it!

Here's a few more photos of it from the co-vention...

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The 2009 POCI/GTOAA Convention was the greatest Pontiac show there ever was, and a once in a lifetime event, with over 1000 Pontiacs registered. The only down side was that we had to return to Dayton a month AFTER the POCI/GTOAA for the Trans Am Nationals!

I'm going to try and divert this thread back to vintage pics only, so I'll start with a few Grand Prix's; 1969, 1970, and 1972. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif[/img]

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: StealthBird</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 2009 POCI/GTOAA Convention was the greatest Pontiac show there ever was, and a once in a lifetime event, with over 1000 Pontiacs registered. The only down side was that we had to return to Dayton a month AFTER the POCI/GTOAA for the Trans Am Nationals!

I'm going to try and divert this thread back to vintage pics only, so I'll start with a few Grand Prix's; 1969, 1970, and 1972. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif[/img]
</div></div>

I agree, that convention was the best... a Pontiac lover's dream! The assembly line photos are great too! The red car looks a lot like the one Charley &amp; I had...

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The 1963 Grand Prix X-400 show car. Pontiac built several X-400 cars over the previous years, the 1963 version had a fiberglass hood with dual hood scoops, which have a strange resemblance to the scoops used on the 1970 Buick GS years later. The engine was a supercharged 421, using a 4-71 blower, and 4 Corvette side-draft carbs. The exhaust system was built to allow the driver to control the exhaust gasses, with a 3-position bypass lever that allowed closed, partially open, and fully open exhaust. The exhaust pipes exited at the rocker panel in front of the rear wheelwells.

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Some 65's...

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1965's at the auto show...

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My old tripower car racing at Dragway 42 and then after I brought it back to life.

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Great car!!! Thanks for sharing

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That '63 Gran Prix was sweet.

Anyone have pics of some '64 GTO's?

Those '65's are very nice, but the '64's have an understated mean look to them as well.