Re: One of ? L89 Nova for sale at Russo and Steele
 

Dave,

Thanks for taking the time to post. What are the dates on the 074 heads?


Jason

Re: One of ? L89 Nova for sale at Russo and Steele
 

Jason

1/12/70 and 1/16/70

Dave

Re: One of ? L89 Nova for sale at Russo and Steele
 

I guess that clears everything up......... https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/hmmm.gif

Ken https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/flag.gif

Re: One of ? L89 Nova for sale at Russo and Steele
 

Stahl became Kennedy Chevrolet.

Re: One of ? L89 Nova for sale at Russo and Steele
 

[ QUOTE ]
I bought the car in 2003 from a guy in Long Island.


[/ QUOTE ]
Hello Dave,

I think I remember this car being for sale back then. What month did you buy it?

Thanks,
Greg

Re: One of ? L89 Nova for sale at Russo and Steele
 

The original engine block, heads, intake, water pump, and carb as well as the original tranny and rear came with the car.

Dave

Humm!!

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/showflat...true#Post236116

Ken

Re: One of ? L89 Nova for sale at Russo and Steele
 

[ QUOTE ]
Stahl became Kennedy Chevrolet.

[/ QUOTE ]

In Southampton? What years are we talking about here?

Re: One of ? L89 Nova for sale at Russo and Steele
 

Good detective work Ken!!

Re: One of ? L89 Nova for sale at Russo and Steele
 

I still don't understand why an open chamber (074) cylinder head is being used on this engine, when all the 1970 big block L78/L89 production engines would have used a closed chamber (842) head and piston combo to come up with the designed 11.25:1 compression ratio?????
What am I missing here??? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif

Re: One of ? L89 Nova for sale at Russo and Steele
 

Well, if Brian Henderson of the Supercar Workshop is vouching for this car and it's authenticity, then that's enough for me and a lot of other people. The auction house can and probably will use Brian's inspection and approval to help market the car to interested buyers that might just need that little extra piece of proof.

Re: One of ? L89 Nova for sale at Russo and Steele
 

This is what I found when looking at the car for Dave. I met Dave at Legendary to inspect the car. The car was at that time already apart, and the body was in the paint booth. The entire drive train was out of the car. Some of the parts were already apart for restoration. The engine itself was still intact. Dave brought all his documentation along, and he did a great deal of his own research. He had GM documents with the engine code I believe he got from Fran Preve. He had factory doc's like the POP. Peter Klutt among others examined the POP comparing it to other 70' POPs that Klutt had. There was NOTHING to indicate that the POP was not legit. It matched all the other ones on hand that day. From the glue to the fonts, it was for all we could tell authentic to the car. All the other codes matched the car 100%. The engine was on a stand and had yet to be taken apart. The Legendary Camera Crew was on hand to see EXACTLY what we found that day. Legendary's lead guys were present along with Klutt as the engine was taken apart. The pad itself had some light surface rust. There was no evidence of any step down on the pad from a previous decking. The heads were removed to see if indeed the broach marks extended from one side to the other, and they did. From all accounts it looked to be untouched and real. The heads were present and the dates noted. There was nothing to indicate the car was pieced together. The documents looked right, as did the block. Since there is not another pad like this to even match up too, it is impossible to tell what the others look like. Could it have been faked? I guess anything is possible, but it looked right. If it is wrong, it is exceptional. The original parts all had pitting and wear. Nothing was CRISP. I think the car is legit. If you are a serious player on the car, inspect it yourself. Dave came off to me as an honest guy. The car was already deep into the resto at Legendary when I was asked to look at it. There was no turning back at that point...BKH

Re: One of ? L89 Nova for sale at Russo and Steele
 

Hi Dave:

You probably don't remember me, but I sat at the table with you at the Supercar reunion in 2007. Your car is beautiful. Good luck with the sale. Hopefully you can shed some light on your request for 074 heads. I know I have three sets of heads for my Z/28, all dated correctly, so I would understand you buying extra parts.

When the engine was disassembled, did it have 074 heads or 842 heads?

Thanks for posting.

Re: One of ? L89 Nova for sale at Russo and Steele
 

Brian,
thanks for your insight. I don't know much about Novas but what a lot of guys seem to have trouble with involving this car is the O74 heads. Were they on there when you looked at the motor?

Re: One of ? L89 Nova for sale at Russo and Steele
 

Lynn,

the car had 074's on it not 842's...Yeah I wanted to have an extra set to put on the car to drive around with and show. I didnt want the original heads to blow or crack and the snowflake was worn off. Obviously the value and rarity of my car are the heads, so If I blew the original ones then that would be it. I saw the ad for the 074's so I called to get an extra set. the original heads were on the car when Brian and Klutt examined it.

Dave

Re: One of ? L89 Nova for sale at Russo and Steele
 

Brian, Can you verify that in you opinion the heads and intake had never been removed? ie original headgaskets and such? I dont think anyone disbelieves that the car is a factory bigblock car. The question revolves around the heads as being factory installed. I know when replacing heads the all surfaces have to be cleaned leaving marks. Were there any such marks? Any original paper showing the heads as being factory? If there is any paper showing this can we see it or the part of it showing the factory details. Being that the car is for sale I would think the the paperwork would be key.

Re: One of ? L89 Nova for sale at Russo and Steele
 

Dave...........So....Not only (according to you) is your car the "Only" one of one L-89 Novas made......But....It's the "Only" L-89 produced with 074 Heads.........Is that what you are saying?.......If so.....what is the GM part # for the pistons that were used in the engine rebuild.....In my opinion....If I had the "Holy Grail" car......I would hire someone with the experience to track the previous owners and get a "Documented" history trail of the car to "Validate" the pedigree............After all......since it's so valuable, the slight added expense would be worth it.....
I know I'm going to get in trouble with some here by stirring the pot.......But.....I'm just posting what "Most" are thinking........Again.....If it were my car I would take whatever means possible to "Validate" the History and I would be pushing the paperwork as much as the car.....It's easy to build a real appearing L-89 Nova....I've done it and you've seen it....and it's got a CKP stamped block with Broach marks using GM stamps.......the Block was supplied by a guy that specializes in restoring engines for the Corvette guys...........So.....It didn't just fall out of the sky magically one day......and it's not presented as real......."Validate"....."Validate".......The 074 Heads are a major problem in trying to Sell your story....After all....If the car sells for large Money (as it should if real) and the next owner can prove otherwise.....you will be at Risk...........again....."Validate"....."Validate" .....Puzzles are big and have a lot of pieces.....hard to see the Big Picture with a couple of small speculative pieces
Time to get in the "Bunker".......Just my $.02

Ken

Re: One of ? L89 Nova for sale at Russo and Steele
 

If the motor was out then I am sure detailed pics were taken of the assembly and VIN stamp. Most of the L78 Nova blocks I have seen were VIN stamped on the pad at Willow Run. Posting of these pics would probably clear up some confusion. I would like to see them...
Here is an example block I owned a while back:
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y86...6/DSCN4491.jpg

Paul

Re: One of ? L89 Nova for sale at Russo and Steele
 

is it agreed that 311 L89 engines were built out for the '69 model year according to printed research so far?

so, how many ended up in Chevelle's?

and how many in Camaro's?

then only one with the misplaced 074's ended up in this car? while i'm thrilled this could be the Holy Grail, there is nothing that states that along the way the heads could have been switched for whatever reason... like a warranty swap for some reason the first year? i'm hard with Kwhizz, find the original or first couple owners, cause that's the clencher...

I don't see how ANYBODY, at this juncture, can state that these were POSITIVELY factory installed, just because they were on there when the dissassembly witness process took place 3 decades or so later.

Re: One of ? L89 Nova for sale at Russo and Steele
 

Jim, the car in discussion is a 1970 model year Nova...not 1969. Just wanted to be sure you knew that.

I'm leaving for the woods..Tibor and Cumby are in charge https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

Re: One of ? L89 Nova for sale at Russo and Steele
 

A lot of great advice! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/worship.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/worship.gif

Re: One of ? L89 Nova for sale at Russo and Steele
 

Me & Tiger talked about this and are having problems is the 074 heads. These heads are open chamber 108 cc. GM never made a piston for a 396 open chamber. These heads were only on the L-88 & the ZL-1 both 427ci. I have a real problem with those heads on a 396. By the way we both got woods from the car. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...iggthumpup.gif

Re: One of ? L89 Nova for sale at Russo and Steele
 

I am extremely curious about what piston was used in this engine as well. In order to be a correct 11:1 compression ratio, you couldn't use standard closed chamber piston and an open chamber head to get this ratio. The only other piston at the time that would have been used was the L88 or ZL-1 piston, but even then, thats too much compression (12.5:1) and not a 396 piston. The factory would have had to make a special set of pistons for all of this to work correctly.

Re: One of ? L89 Nova for sale at Russo and Steele
 

Head #3946074 open chamber 118cc. ZL-1, L-88, and 1971 LS-6 Corvette. Round exhaust ports. Piston for 396/375 GM #3878231 11:1 compression with 106.8cc closed chamber head #3919842. Calculculated compression with this new combo: 10:1 at best. Too low for the #3863143 camshaft. It is highly unlikly for GM engineers to mis-match open and closed chamber componants. I am just saying, IMHO.

Re: One of ? L89 Nova for sale at Russo and Steele
 

So what ones needs to show is a pic of the pistons that were in the block and a micrometer reading showing that they are or were std. bore.


I agree about Ken's comment. Hunt and spend some time and money on finding all the owners. Hunt down the address on the POP and visit them and all the old neighbors. Go to the city utilities and see who owned or payed the bills on the address give at the time in the date time. Get a detective if one needs to. This car could and should be considered as the holy one, and spending the $$ documenting and proving it could and should double the money. I see it could hit 200-400k....maybe more since it would be considered as one of the top 3 Nova's of all time.

Re: One of ? L89 Nova for sale at Russo and Steele
 

Contact Bruce Shaw Esquire. He and his brother Terry had a speed shop in Willow Grove during those years. He is also a car appraiser and so forth. Bruce may even remember such a rare car. Whoever owned that car back then would almost HAVE to go to Shaws Speed Shop in Willow Grove for even just plugs and oil. Like Tibor said "get workin on it." https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...iggthumpup.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/headbang.gif

Re: One of ? L89 Nova for sale at Russo and Steele
 

I'm referring to Southampton, PA = very close to Hatboro, PA.

If I recall the EBaY ad from way back, the POP was the selling point on this car because wasn't it missing the engine?

Re: One of ? L89 Nova for sale at Russo and Steele
 

[ QUOTE ]
Contact Bruce Shaw Esquire. He and his brother Terry had a speed shop in Willow Grove during those years. He is also a car appraiser and so forth. Bruce may even remember such a rare car. Whoever owned that car back then would almost HAVE to go to Shaws Speed Shop in Willow Grove for even just plugs and oil. Like Tibor said "get workin on it." https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...iggthumpup.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/headbang.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Sam,

Did Bruce Shaw have a 66 Mosportgreen on Black L72 Convertible a few years back? Ended up selling it, buying it back and selling it again?

Actually, if I'm thinking of the right person he has a few cars and a nice 3 or 4 car garage with lifts at his house?

Thanks,
Dave

Re: One of ? L89 Nova for sale at Russo and Steele
 

[ QUOTE ]

If I recall the EBaY ad from way back, the POP was the selling point on this car because wasn't it missing the engine?

[/ QUOTE ]

You're not by chance thinking of the '69 L89 Camaro w/ POP and missing engine on eBay a few years back are you Marl?.
It had a kind've Harrel looking stripe and Chuck 427King bought it then offered it for sale a few times here later?.

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/show...fpart/all/vc/1

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif
~ Pete

Re: One of ? L89 Nova for sale at Russo and Steele
 

I would just put on the correct 842 heads and be done with it. Those 074 heads can never be validated, especially after being on the engine for 35 years. Back then, anyone could have used GM head and intake gaskets. There is no way the factory put those on.

Re: One of ? L89 Nova for sale at Russo and Steele
 

69ssZL1 is correct about the 074 heads having 118 cc's, while the L-89 heads (842's) were 106.8 cc's. As he states the 8231 pistons would create a compression ratio of around 9.8 to 1, being able to run on today's premium gas? This I know for fact because I personally have this combination I have tried on a .030 427. This combination was about 10:1 and because of the alum. heads, had no trouble with pre-iginition. The 074 head as stated was designed and used on the L-88 & ZL-1. The 842 heads was used on the 11:1 L-89's, is my personal thought?

This may have been mentioned before, but does anyone have records as to how many 402 L-89's were built in 1970, and what they went into? In previous years, (68 & 69) the L-89 can be documented in their use of Camaro's, Chevelles, & Corvettes? No Novas or Passenger cars in those years as far as any information I have been able to come up with? Many more with the L-89 factory combination was produced in the previous years? I guess there is always a possibility, but why would this have not happened before 1970 and built enough ( 50 ) to set up a class in NHRA Super Stock? Back in those days, NHRA specifications were pretty strict.

Re: One of ? L89 Nova for sale at Russo and Steele
 

Name one 1970 car that came with alum. heads. I don't know of any. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif

Re: One of ? L89 Nova for sale at Russo and Steele
 

18 1970 big block Chevelles got the aluminum heads.

Re: One of ? L89 Nova for sale at Russo and Steele
 

What casting are those Alum Chevelle heads? I just checked my Colvin book for '70-75 and don't come up with any alum heads for that time except the '71 074 castings. All 70 and up had tapered seat spark plugs, so I was wrong, even the 842 castings would be incorrect.

Re: One of ? L89 Nova for sale at Russo and Steele
 

Mr.L-89.I would be curious to know what wayne Bushey of National Nostalgic nova thought about the L-89 as a legitimate L-89 car.i have spoke to Wayne quite a few times about a possible L-89 car.Mr.L-89 ,it great your commenting on the car;i think most of us want to believe there is a original L-89 nova;i think it is mostly the 074 heads ;if the car was a 69 with .,say a 842 head it would be an easier shoein.chris

Re: One of ? L89 Nova for sale at Russo and Steele
 

[ QUOTE ]
Jim, the car in discussion is a 1970 model year Nova...not 1969. Just wanted to be sure you knew that.


[/ QUOTE ] OHHH, I'M AWARE OF THAT.... https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

Re: One of ? L89 Nova for sale at Russo and Steele
 

What was the compression ratio on the 71 LS6 Vette ? It was low as I recall.

Re: One of ? L89 Nova for sale at Russo and Steele
 

1971 Corvette LS-6 454ci compression ratio 9:1. 425 hp @5600, 475 tq @4000. Has a domed piston.

Re: One of ? L89 Nova for sale at Russo and Steele
 

I am going off of memory but I thought you needed to modify the dome of a high compression closed chamber piston because it was too close to some part of an open chamber head. If the motor was out did it get rebuilt with new pistons? If so would the old pistons still be available for inspection?

Re: One of ? L89 Nova for sale at Russo and Steele
 

Kim
I currently know about 3 of the original 18 1970 L-89 factory assembled SS Chevelles.
They reportedly came w/842 heads..
They are still on this earth today and documented.

Re: One of ? L89 Nova for sale at Russo and Steele
 

[ QUOTE ]
Kim
I currently know about 3 of the original 18 1970 L-89 factory assembled SS Chevelles.
They reportedly came w/842 heads..
They are still on this earth today and documented.

[/ QUOTE ]

Post photos please.