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Re: School me on SS427s!
Thanks Paul! Love to see some more photos of that beautiful SS427. Marc
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Re: School me on SS427s!
Paul:
Paul: [ QUOTE ] I guess my common sense asks, Why would they sell a car with out an impala nameplate on it? [/ QUOTE ] Perhaps the same reason why Oldsmobile sold the Aurora without any reference to Olds? I can't profess to know, but while your reasoning is sound, it's just a theory that isn't supported by the VIN, right? Think of it another way: Pontiac had a 2+2 in 1967. It was an option package, I believe. Does it say Catalina on it? [ QUOTE ] This Model ,Package, Car has a Name SS427 It is on all 4 sides of the vehicle with the only other designation Chevrolet. As to the vin it was the most cost effective route using the standard sports roof designation. They were making a special car different and 1 step up from a run of the mill Impala SS and focusing on the legendary 427 engine. [/ QUOTE ] I don't see it as focusing on the "legendary 427 engine" as much as offering a full-size performance package, since the SS really was never a hi-po package to begin with. [ QUOTE ] "who would pay 5000.00 for a Chevrolet? " [/ QUOTE ] I think 5 grand is an exaggeration. Perhaps the example you quite was close to that number, but the average musclecar probably sold for more like $3800-4000. While the SS427 was not the average musclecar, if you get an SS and add the SS427 package and a few power accessories, I don't think it'll reach up to the 5s. [ QUOTE ] It was all about sensationalizing the 427 mystique. [/ QUOTE ] Never thought there was a mystique with the 427 - just a good engine. However, compare it with a L88 (yes, I realize it's a 427 too!) or Stage 2 or RAV and you'll find engines with mystiques. Guess that's a subjective one, eh? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif [ QUOTE ] It makes perfect sense that it would be a package as they only made 2400 of these wonderful cars .. But in my eyes there always gonna be something other than an Impala .. [/ QUOTE ] But, on the other hand, there are plenty of "models" that are rarer than the SS427, so I see that only as a theory. Ditto for the inverse - the 1965 GTO was an option package, and they made over 70,000 of 'em! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif |
Re: School me on SS427s!
Reguarding the Aurora you better take a look at the radio in the dash. Yep it Says Oldsmobile.....
You already digressed to the ss396 Vin .. As you can see it was the most economical decision with a run of 2100 cars. Why change the vin .. As to your 2+2 comment it was a standalone Model that they removed the Catalina name from which reverted to a option package you might want to rethink your example .. "Pontiac 2+2 From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Pontiac 2+2 Manufacturer General Motors Also called Parisienne 2+2 (in Canada) Production 1964-1967 in the U.S. Class sports grand tourer The Pontiac 2+2 was a full size high performance automobile manufactured by Pontiac Motor Division. It debuted in 1964 as an interior trim option with special door panels, buckets seats and center console on the Pontiac Catalina. Pontiac marketed the 2+2 as the "big brother" to the popular Pontiac GTO. ****[1]Beginning in 1965, 2+2 became a standalone model, and the name Catalina was no longer found on the car.**** The 2+2 was given the 421 cubic inch power plant, dual exhaust, heavy duty front springs as well as its own outer body trim appointments. It officially became its own series in 1966[2], on the same platform, but reverted again to an option in 1967[3] and was discontinued in the United States the same year due to poor sales. It continued as a series in Canada until 1970. I was a stand alone model 65 ,66 , and changed to an option in 67 obviously it was not a catalinia thats why the name is not on it .. "who would pay 5000.00 for a Chevrolet? " This Quote was taken from a test drive of the SS427 in 1967 so the price was fairly accurate to who ever wrote the article. I believe you think I just gussed at that number if you want the article I can supply you with a link. As to having Mystique It was mysterious enough that they made only 2100 of this car and we are all talking about it today lol . Every time I have my car out I am asked where the hood louvers are and the V nameplates. maybe it is more notorious than mysterious .. I agree it was all about taking it to the next performance level with the Corvette power plant no doubt... I digress to your last comment there is no black and white as to why they did things at Chevrolet it is what it is ya know .. And here is a couple of write up highlights about how other people feel about what the SS427 was all about .. " NOT to be confused or mistaken as an SS Impala with big engine, the SS427 was available only as RPO Z24. Any Chevrolet could be ordered in the late ‘60s with a 427, but the SS427 was a special high performance vehicle. The SS427 was first introduced in 1967 and was build produced through model year 1969. 1967/68 RPO Z24 shared the Impala SS trim options but was fitted with HD components; the L36 385HP/427, special badging, front bucket seats/console as the Impala SS and special instrumentation-optional was the 425HP/427 L72 solid lifter-V8. For 1967 a special ‘V’ sculptured hood with three chrome air duct ‘pots’, SS427 grille/deck badging and special ‘V’ flagged 427 front fender emblem. Available in both convertible and 2dr hardtop versions, the SS427 was billed and marketed by Chevrolet as, “For the man who’d buy a sports car if it had this much room.” 1968 saw a facelift and new SS427 ‘domed’ hood with chrome vent at the windshield, and front fender vertical chrome louvers. It should be noted that the Impala SS as a model was dropped at the end of 1968. 1969 was another facelift with the RPO Z24 SS427 Impala as the only big Chevrolet to wear SS markings. Emblems consisted of the front fender Chevrolet big car family 427 marking, SS emblem below the front fender Impala script, black accented grille with SS marking and SS rear deck emblem. Interior trim was the same as the standard Impala with SS emblem on the steering wheel center-bench seating and column shift were standard fair with front bucket seating and floor console now optional. L72 425HP/427 was an option again for 1968-69 and along with the hardtop and convertible body style, for 68/69 the Impala Custom Coupe was also available with RPO Z24 SS427 package. The only transmissions available with RPO Z24 were the Turbo 400 or 4-speed manual. RPO Z24 build; 2,124/1967, 1,778/1968, 2,455/1969. Recently sold at Barrett-Jackson 1967 SS427 convertible $85,800.00. 1968 SS427 convertible $73,700.00. " "Now keep in mind that the Super Sport option that had made Impalas so popular in the early '60s was still available in '67. But it was essentially a trim package that included bucket seats, special badging, and extra trim, so you could order it with just about any engine-even a six-cylinder. The Bow-Tie boys figured they could take the SS Impala concept one step further and make an engine-specific version-one with an engine that was powerful enough to make this large car muscular. So they dipped into the Corvette parts bin, pulled out the Mark IV 427 Turbo-Jet V-8, and created the SS427 ." I guess call it what you want still one of the coolest cars GM produced wish I had one .. Paul |
Re: School me on SS427s!
1 Attachment(s)
[ QUOTE ]
You're correct, until one of the supposed few that were produced turns up lol [/ QUOTE ] I had one when I worked at Chevrolet Engineering - tagged it for employee purchase the day it arrived in the Company Car Fleet garage; L-72 4-speed SS427, special-ordered by Engineering for Chassis Development. It hit the 3,000-mile mark in December, and I bought it and drove it home just before Christmas; sold it in Flint a couple of years later. Removed the "Special Order" tag from the left side front fender reinforcement and put it in my rollaway just before I sold it, still have the tag - photo below. There may not have been any L-72 SS427's built on dealer order for retail sale, but there was at least one built for Engineering; I bought several sets of rear tires for it in the two years I owned it. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/burnout.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif |
Re: School me on SS427s!
John,
Do you have any memory of a red 68 Biscayne 427/385 stick ordered by engineering to test posi clutches? I was talking to a guy who bought this car from Chevrolet after it had traveled in circles for 3,000 miles worth of testing! |
Re: School me on SS427s!
[ QUOTE ]
The 64-68 Chevelle SS had a unique VIN. The 69 did not. <font color="red"> Does that mean the 69 Chevelle SS396 was not its own model?</font> Jason [/ QUOTE ] That would be correct...the 69 Chevelle SS396 was NOT its own model. The SS396 was just an option package on various models of the 69 Chevelle. |
Re: School me on SS427s!
Bill,
I guess I do not understand the conversation then. To me, a Camaro RS, SS, Z/28, etc. are all different models based on the same body style. So yes, I believe a SS396 Chevelle is its only model. Also, I believe a Impala SS and Impala SS427 are both their own separate models. Jason |
Re: School me on SS427s!
[ QUOTE ]
I guess I do not understand the conversation then. To me, a Camaro RS, SS, Z/28, etc. are all different models based on the same body style. So yes, I believe a SS396 Chevelle is its only model. Also, I believe a Impala SS and Impala SS427 are both their own separate models. [/ QUOTE ] Is a Camaro SS a Camaro V-8 with the SS package? Certainly! Yet we don't often say it's a "Camaro with the SS performance package." Ditto with the GTO Judge. So what about the SS396 Chevelle from 1969? I suspect they made it an option available on numerous Chevelles due to the Plymouth Road Runner . . . but it still doesn't answer why it became an option package instead of continuing as a model with more bodystyles available. Paul, I'll be back to address your response later. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif A little secret to all: Paul's car is gonna appear in print one day. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...iggthumpup.gif |
Re: School me on SS427s!
Paul, though I enjoy it immensely I've learned you can't win an argument with Diego!! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/smile.gif
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Re: School me on SS427s!
What argument? Just trying to get to the bottom of this. One of the reasons is because I am writing about the SS427 in my blog and would like to get it right. Considering all the misinformation out there on all brands despite 40+ years of these cars, wouldn't it be nice to lick each misinformed nugget one by one?
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Re: School me on SS427s!
In all honesty I really do call Diego a friend this is all just friendly banter.... I have been going to the Pure Stocks for about 10 years last 3 with a car so I have gotten to know him face to face .. He is a cool guy and we are just having a little fun so no worries lol.. Looking forward to your response ... And where is that blog?
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Re: School me on SS427s!
John was it a 67 with an L-72 and do you have anything documenting the build ? Iam sure you have had that question asked of you alot when you talk about that car LOL ..
Paul |
Re: School me on SS427s!
[ QUOTE ]
RPO Z24 build; 2,124/1967, 1,778/1968, 2,455/1969. " [/ QUOTE ] Is there a convertible breakdown? |
Re: School me on SS427s!
Nope, that's as good as it gets for the US built Z24s..
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Re: School me on SS427s!
The number I have read and heard is 39 SS427 Convertibles were built. But I suspect it was speculation as I have never seen an official build list besides the one you mentioned. If that accurate it would be about 20% of total production with 2124 being built. I know one convertible was a raffle prize for the 1967 Worlds Fair per the owner at the time I saw it others have said it was some GM special car give away prize. It was owned by a Michigan farmer and sold recently at the Mecum Auction in 2005. It was White with red interior. The farmer raced it at the Pure Stock Drags unrestored . It had 25,000 original miles on it when I saw it and featured a whole host of factory options, among them being power front disc brakes, power windows, power drivers side bucket seat, tilt steering column with simulated wood sports steering wheel, "Comfortron" air conditioning, AM-FM stereo radio, 8 track tape player, tachometer and gauge cluster only thing it was missing was the D96 side stripes.
Paul |
Re: School me on SS427s!
[ QUOTE ]
In all honesty I really do call Diego a friend this is all just friendly banter.... I have been going to the Pure Stocks for about 10 years last 3 with a car so I have gotten to know him face to face .. He is a cool guy and we are just having a little fun so no worries lol.. Looking forward to your response ... And where is that blog? [/ QUOTE ] Indeed, Paul! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/worship.gif The blog I'm writing will be done soon, but HERE's some other car stuff I've written. Going to try to finish the article now, and then I'll reply to your other post! |
Re: School me on SS427s!
[ QUOTE ]
John, Do you have any memory of a red 68 Biscayne 427/385 stick ordered by engineering to test posi clutches? I was talking to a guy who bought this car from Chevrolet after it had traveled in circles for 3,000 miles worth of testing! [/ QUOTE ] No, not offhand - there were over 1300 cars in the Engineering Evaluation fleet at any one time, and haulaway trucks full of them arrived every day. I focused on mine because I knew it was coming - I knew the Staff Engineer who ordered it for his development program. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif |
Re: School me on SS427s!
[ QUOTE ]
John was it a 67 with an L-72 and do you have anything documenting the build ? Iam sure you have had that question asked of you alot when you talk about that car LOL .. Paul [/ QUOTE ] Yes, it was a '67 L-72. Nope, have no paper on the car - it was 42 years (and ten transfers/homes) ago; all I have is the special order tag. It was that pretty champagne color inside and out, with redlines. If it stayed in Flint after I sold it, it's probably iron oxide dust by now. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif |
Re: School me on SS427s!
Not a 67 but it is a 427 car and we have always called it a " SS427 Sport Coupe" . Its been sitting in a shed for years now but was our "community car" when we were kids and the vehicle of choice on Holloween.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6..._DSC02370s.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6..._DSC02375s.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6..._DSC02369s.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6..._DSC02376s.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6..._DSC02377s.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6..._DSC02380s.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6..._DSC02381s.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6..._DSC02388s.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...th_63split.jpg |
Re: School me on SS427s!
------Chevy Thunder,,,That is a neat old 68 SS427! It appears to have been red new. Who changed the color from RED to yellow??? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/confused.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ins/tongue.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif .
------It also appears to have been a 427/425. Very cool! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/cool.gifhttps://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/drool.gif........Bill S |
Re: School me on SS427s!
Van, you need to get that car out of there and restore it!! Need barn find. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...iggthumpup.gif
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Re: School me on SS427s!
[ QUOTE ]
------It also appears to have been a 427/425. Very cool! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/cool.gifhttps://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/drool.gif........Bill S [/ QUOTE ] I thought those were 4-speed-only till '69? |
Re: School me on SS427s!
[quote
------It also appears to have been a 427/425. [/ QUOTE ] With A/C? |
Re: School me on SS427s!
Van, you always have some cool cars! One of these days I will get a "big" car....
But until then, https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...-I-Have-It.gif |
Re: School me on SS427s!
Cowl Break down below.. Interesting is the stamped 21 after the interior trim number.. Would love ot get my hand son that https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/smile.gif...
Style: 6816447 Year: 1968 Series: Impala Custom Body Style: 2-Dr Sport Coupe Engine: 8 Cyl Body: STL009578 Plant: St. Louis, MO Serial #: 009578 Trim: 806 Series: Impala Interior Color: Black Material: Vinyl Cloth Leather Paint: RR Lower Body Color: Matador Red Upper Body Color: Matador Red |
Re: School me on SS427s!
[ QUOTE ]
Van, you always have some cool cars! One of these days I will get a "big" car.... But until then, https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...-I-Have-It.gif [/ QUOTE ] You want that "Landyacht " come get it Bruce https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/smile.gif The car was abandoned at Candlestick Park and was towed and never claimed and was a "lein sale" about 35 years ago. Was yellow when we got it. As a kid I used to tow my 24 ft Hallet day cruiser with it... towed like an absolute champ ! Not a 425 horse car http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6..._DSC02385s.jpg In this half exposed picture from 1984 of my 70 M22 4:10 Z with tall spoiler (Z now owned by Rick of Rick's First Generations) you can see the SS427 in the background with my Turbo parked next to it... even withthe Turbo in front of it you can see the rear ,the front and the top of the car.. that gives you an idea how big that car is. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...50-R1-E004.jpg |
Re: School me on SS427s!
If bruce dosen't want it I'll take it! PM me!
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Re: School me on SS427s!
I GOT DIBS I SAID I WANTED IT FIRST!!! LOL
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Re: School me on SS427s!
If you are serious about selling the 68 please let me know also.
Thanks, Steve PS your mail box is full! |
Re: School me on SS427s!
[ QUOTE ] I GOT DIBS I SAID I WANTED IT FIRST!!! LOL [/ QUOTE ] Sorry...you asked after me https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ins/tongue.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif Van is a cool guy...and I would have to think that the land yacht is gonna stay put for a bit https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...iggthumpup.gif |
Re: School me on SS427s!
Paul:
I am overdue for a response, whether it's neither here nor there . . . [ QUOTE ] Reguarding the Aurora you better take a look at the radio in the dash. Yep it Says Oldsmobile..... [/ QUOTE ] Now you're nit-picking. Regardless, the lack of Impala nomenclature doesn't mean the car is not an Impala, although it's a premise I can understand. [ QUOTE ] You already digressed to the ss396 Vin .. As you can see it was the most economical decision with a run of 2100 cars. Why change the vin .. [/ QUOTE ] But do you think economics is the qualifier whether a car is a model or an option package? The SS was a package for the Camaro for its entire life, yet I don't think it was ever subverted as anything other than a model. [ QUOTE ] As to your 2+2 comment it was a standalone Model that they removed the Catalina name from which reverted to a option package you might want to rethink your example .. [/ QUOTE ] That's not true. In 1964, it was a Catalina 2+2. And I believe it was an option package for all 4 years. While it may have been branded better in '65-67 as a stand-alone, it still was an option package. Riddle me this: If it or the SS427 were models, why don't we have breakdowns by bodystyle? How come we don't know how many 2+2 ragtops were built? (In a little caveat on my part, my memory suggests the 2+2 was its own model in 1966, but why aren't there any numbers for ragtops?) [ QUOTE ] "Pontiac 2+2 From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia [/ QUOTE ] Not a good source! [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] "who would pay 5000.00 for a Chevrolet? " [/ QUOTE ] This Quote was taken from a test drive of the SS427 in 1967 so the price was fairly accurate to who ever wrote the article. I believe you think I just gussed at that number if you want the article I can supply you with a link. [/ QUOTE ] No, thanks . . . I thought I was clear - maybe not? - that the SS427 was not a $5000 car, but perhaps a road test had one that was. Obviously it was a loaded-up example. But I bet most SS427s were closer to $4500 or even hovering just above $4000 - don't forget, the average price of a car back then was on the other side of 4 grand! [ QUOTE ] As to having Mystique... It was mysterious enough that they made only 2100 of this car and we are all talking about it today lol . Every time I have my car out I am asked where the hood louvers are and the V nameplates. maybe it is more notorious than mysterious .. [/ QUOTE ] Yeah, but that's because your car is confusing - I think most people assume the 427 was not available on the Impala SS and only on the SS427. I know I wasn't sure as recently as 2 years ago, but I wouldn't have asked you about the dome; instead, I would have asked you whether it was correct to have a 427 in an SS, but that's just how I approach things. Anyway, just a little bench racing and bantering about an interesting car that no one really seems to know about, but I think we probably know it all collectively. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...iggthumpup.gif |
Re: School me on SS427s!
-----Dennis,,,DUH on my part!!! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ins/tongue.gif All I looked at was the aluminum intake. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/shocked.gif . So we are looking at a heated up, headerized lo-perf 427. That aint all bad!!!.....Bill S
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Re: School me on SS427s!
Tax Title and Plates your gonna be closer to 5000 than 4500.. I did a quick search came up with 4300 - 4500 not a convert.. Even at 4500 we are talking Cadillac money for a Top of the line Chevrolet. They were not my words LOL fight with the author of the article written in 1967.
And you better check your data the 2+2 was a model in 65 and 66 .. But due to the GTO kicking it`s sales butt they reverted it back to an option in 67 and if it was tagged a 2+2 the name catilina was not on the veh anywhere all 3 years.. Don`t matter if it is Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia or not it is accurate. How many 4 speed cars where built in 67 ? How many power glides, This was a reg option and it is a mystery. Why would it be surprising they did not keep track of what was built on a 2100 car run.. No one really thought it was important at the time I guess .. Nit picking or not you said it is not on the car anywhere and I am telling you it is and I am accurate it is there .. As to my car being confusing It is not much different than a copo tow truck or a Kingswood wagon with a 4 speed and 427 .. They checked the right box.. Part of the confusion was they wanted to sell more of the SS427`s so it was not well known you could get it in the impala .. I guess it is more of people trying to get what they wanted and smarter than the average bear salesmen who knew there way around the order sheets.. And again who knows why GM did some of the tings they did.. Paul |
Re: School me on SS427s!
My car is a 385hp 427 and it is running a better number than any full size 425hp car.. I would not call it Lo Performance..
I know I know quit nit picking lol just sticking up for my baby LOL Paul |
Re: School me on SS427s!
For you big car fans, (ssl78396) sent me this link of big car photos with many racing shots as well. This group contains 61-70 with many SS427 and 427 Biscaynes, Impalas, etc. Pretty cool.
http://rides.webshots.com/album/557108482VKykvt |
Re: School me on SS427s!
Here is one he can add to his list https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/smile.gif
http://www.geocities.com/gtsreg/PSMCDR2009/pair37.JPG |
Re: School me on SS427s!
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Re: School me on SS427s!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeBSisbgFsw
this car is featured in this months Hemmings Muscle Machines |
Re: School me on SS427s!
That does not look like a Z24 car to me. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/confused.gif
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Re: School me on SS427s!
I realize Colvin's book has been brought up, but don't believe anyone noted the notes. Passenger 425 horse engines are listed along with how many of each. ID suffix, "11 engines built, no record of install".
IK suffix, "6 engines built, no record of install". Guess one is for stick, one for auto. So, there were at least 17 L72 engines made. Not so hard to believe some (or at least one) was installed per an engineers directions. Too bad JohnZ didn't keep any paperwork on that one. BTW, what date was the L72 option canceled for the 67 model year? |
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