Re: Pontiac may be dead by monday..
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
GM was the largest corporation in the World!

[/ QUOTE ]

Know, what THEY STILL ARE!! THEY STILL MAKE THE MOST VEHICLES IN THE WORLD TODAY!!!

[/ QUOTE ]


When I said they "used to be the largest corporation in the world", I'm not talking about cars produced, I'm talking about "market cap". As of close on friday, GM's market cap was $1.03 billion. Is any company that is only worth $1.03 in billion market cap, and declining, worth losing many billions of dollars a month for several years trying to save???
http://i398.photobucket.com/albums/p..._tombstone.jpg

Re: Pontiac may be dead by monday..
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
No matter who's to blame it is pretty sad.And what division of GM is next on the chopping block?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm sure Obama will let us know shortly.

[/ QUOTE ]

So it's the President's fault that GM has problems?

To another point, I find it hard to believe someone thinks GM has made crap through 2005. Certainly if you've had problems with your '00 Grand Prix, you have a right to be angry. But I think GM has made some pretty decent cars in the past 20 years. The dark ages were the 1970s and the X-cars. GM has had a lot of bright spots over recent history. Today, it's business model needs a drastic revamp even more than Impala.

Re: Pontiac may be dead by monday..
 

There have been some bright spots during that time period (94-02 F bodies, new GTO, their trucks, Caddy's, etc.) but for the most part, their quality has just not been there, and that's the truth backed by millions of owners. Sorry, but that's reality.

Re: Pontiac may be dead by monday..
 

The quality of the recent domestic stuff we've had has surpassed that of our imports from a reliability standpoint (ie fewer defects/warranty repairs). Better paint/finish, too, in many cases. Interior materials not so much.

Re: Pontiac may be dead by monday..
 

I have a 1998 GMC pickup made in Canada with 186,000 miles on it still has original paint and never been touched up and has never sat in a garage that still looks real nice. Fit, finish, quality etc. has surpassed my expectations.

Re: Pontiac may be dead by monday..
 

I have been a loyal GM customer my whole adult life – at home my family has 6 cars, 5 of them are GM cars, the other a Ford product. I’ve purchased my daily drivers from GM every few years, I’ve had Olds 98's in the eighties and as my family grew moved to Blazers in the nineties and then Trailblazers into the 2000's.
Due to family size changes again, last year I wanted to move down in size from the Trailblazer to an Equinox. There was not one like I wanted, in my area, so I picked up a Pontiac Torrent instead. This car was not a stripper; it was loaded with everything available costing over 30k.
I have never had anything but minor problems with any of the cars I've purchased but this Pontiac had some electrical problems which took several trips to the dealer to repair.
But my real bitch is the cheapness with which this car is made. Simple things, like no lighted mirror on the back of the passenger side sun visor, no grab bars, no seat pockets etc, etc. Add to that the gas mileage is barely better then my full size Trailblazer and I scratching my head why?
Then the ultimate insult came when my daughter came down from NY in her new full size Japanese SUV that was as big as my Trailblazer, had all the amenities you could desire, got better mileage then me and cost less then my Torrent.
I’ve never owned a foreign car, but its tough staying loyal and feeling like a fool! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/blush.gif

Re: Pontiac may be dead by monday..
 

Fritz just announced it...Pontiac is DEAD.

Re: Pontiac may be dead by monday..
 

Yep, it's official (along with 21,000 more job cuts) https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/frown.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/frown.gif

http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/g...t/2c837975.jpg

This is a photo of Bill's '70 in front of Causley Pontiac (on Gratiot in Clinton Township) This was, in better times, the #1 Pontiac Dealership (in terms of sales) in the world!


BTW...EVERY vehicle that Bill and I have ever had owned, both new and used, have been a GM product and we have been VERY pleased with all of them! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...iggthumpup.gif Bill's last 3 trucks have been GMC's. Here's a picture I took of him (being silly https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif) the day he picked up his last one:
http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/g...t/963f0f63.jpg

This announcement is going to be a bummer for him https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/frown.gif, as I'm sure a lot of other Pontiac enthusiasts. His dad is probably rolling in his grave! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif

Re: Pontiac may be dead by monday..
 

[ QUOTE ]
Yep, it's official (along with 21,000 more job cuts) https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/frown.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/frown.gif

http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/g...t/2c837975.jpg

This is a photo of Bill's '70 in front of Causley Pontiac (on Gratiot in Clinton Township) This was, in better times, the #1 Pontiac Dealership (in terms of sales) in the world!


BTW...EVERY vehicle that Bill and I have ever had owned, both new and used, have been a GM product and we have been VERY pleased with all of them! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...iggthumpup.gif Bill's last 3 trucks have been GMC's. Here's a picture I took of him (being silly https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif) the day he picked up his last one:
http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/g...t/963f0f63.jpg

This announcement is going to be a bummer for him https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/frown.gif, as I'm sure a lot of other Pontiac enthusiasts. His dad is probably rolling in his grave! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Wait a minute Rita; I know there was a 69 Roadrunner in your garage for, like, a week or so! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

Sorry; just trying to bring a smile on this day of doom for the Detroit area.

Bashton
MCACN Managing Member

Re: Pontiac may be dead by monday..
 

[ QUOTE ]


Wait a minute Rita; I know there was a 69 Roadrunner in your garage for, like, a week or so! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

Sorry; just trying to bring a smile on this day of doom for the Detroit area.

Bashton
MCACN Managing Member

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL Bob! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif Just another wonderful day in Detroit, huh? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif At least the weather is nice! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...iggthumpup.gif

Actually, that Road Runner was a project...or as I call it, Bill's "therapy" https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/smirk.gif and it was in Bill's dad's garage https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/wink.gif
That was shortly after Bill's dad passed away. I had a hard time even being there that day. Here's Bill working on it...God, does he look HOT in those coveralls! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/laugh.gif (sorry, thinking out loud https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif)

http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/g...t/ad0601ee.jpg

Re: Pontiac may be dead by monday..
 

New item this AM. GTO now stands for Gone To Orphanage.

http://ca.news.finance.yahoo.com/s/27042...ed-pontiac.html


Paul

Re: Pontiac may be dead by monday..
 

The orphan car show in Yipsilati will look more like a normal car show.

Re: Pontiac may be dead by monday..
 

[ QUOTE ]
New item this AM. GTO now stands for Gone To Orphanage.

http://ca.news.finance.yahoo.com/s/27042...ed-pontiac.html


Paul

[/ QUOTE ]
Haven't y'all heard, they're Shutting Detroit Down... https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/frown.gif

Re: Pontiac may be dead by monday..
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
New item this AM. GTO now stands for Gone To Orphanage.

http://ca.news.finance.yahoo.com/s/27042...ed-pontiac.html


Paul

[/ QUOTE ]
Haven't y'all heard, they're Shutting Detroit Down... https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/frown.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

The sad thing is, this is no exaggeration.

Things here in the Detroit area are long past bleak and not looking like they are going to be much better for a long time.

Bashton
MCACN Managing Member

Re: Pontiac may be dead by monday..
 

One comment I have in response to GM's build quality over the past several years is that personally speaking, I have an '01 Z-06 Vette that I use exclusively as a track car on the road course. I run about 8 track events per year, full bore, driving the hell out of it at the top of the A class with various clubs I drive and instruct with. It now has 14,000 miles, almost all of which are track miles at 5000 RPM or more. Other than putting brakes on it after every 4th day and slicks after every 2nd day at the track, the car is bulletproof. No major repairs or other issues. It sits in my garage all winter, comes out in about two weeks from now for an event and never disappoints all Spring and Summer long. Great car, great engine, great reliability.

I also have an '06 Duramax with Allison trans. 56,000 miles now of towing car trailer and boat trailer and it has never had anything other than oil changes and fuel filter changes and its first trans fluid change a few thousand miles ago. Again, great quality and great reliability.

My '08 Mercedes AMG has been to the dealer for various minor issues in its first 12,000 miles. Nothing major, but still an annoyance and I always remind them of my Chevrolets' reliability.

My only beef with GM is that as a 39 year old guy, other than Chevrolet's trucks and their Vette's, I don't see myself driving anything else that Chevrolet currently makes. I like their Cadillac line, but then again, if I am gonna spend the kind of money it takes to get into a V version of one of the Caddy hot rods, then I might as well just spend the extra and get an AMG as I did.

Anyway, my two cents and I am sad to see that GM is in such bad shape right now.

Re: Pontiac may be dead by monday..
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
No matter who's to blame it is pretty sad.And what division of GM is next on the chopping block?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm sure Obama will let us know shortly.

[/ QUOTE ]

So it's the President's fault that GM has problems?

To another point, I find it hard to believe someone thinks GM has made crap through 2005. Certainly if you've had problems with your '00 Grand Prix, you have a right to be angry. But I think GM has made some pretty decent cars in the past 20 years. The dark ages were the 1970s and the X-cars. GM has had a lot of bright spots over recent history. Today, it's business model needs a drastic revamp even more than Impala.

[/ QUOTE ]

I never said GM made crap. Quite to the contrary some of the best cars they ever made were built this decade-most certainly in the area of performance. The problem is and has been for decades bloated unions,skimpy warranties,and corporate arrogance.

You can't pay hillbillys six figures a year to screw on dashboards-then keep them on a oxygen tube until their dirt nap. That's not meant to imply they shouldn't receive bennies.

Yeah i'm pissed because most of us here are/were infinitely more passionate about GM than the last twenty years worth of CEO's. Come on the 5TH gen is a classic case in point on how to miss the boat once again. How many stangs and Challengers have been sold in the last two years?? It really doesn't matter now,they are being nationalized as we speak and yes Obama is the defacto CEO. That's what happens when you don't get your ducks lined up- they had YEARS to initiate change and elected not to trim the fat. Just wait and see what castrated products are going to be offered in a couple of years from an auto giant run by politcians. It is not this admins fault- the blame lies squarely on Lutz and Waggoner IMO

A real shame.
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...thumbsdown.gif

Re: Pontiac may be dead by monday..
 

[ QUOTE ]

I never said GM made crap.


[/ QUOTE ]

I never said you did, hence my intro, "To another point," as I was addressing two comments in one post.

[ QUOTE ]
You can't pay hillbillys six figures a year to screw on dashboards-then keep them on a oxygen tube until their dirt nap. That's not meant to imply they shouldn't receive bennies.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think some of the folks of Michigan and elsewhere will find your comment about hillbillies to be truthful. Besides, doesn't an import manufacturer have a plant in Kentucky? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/wink.gif

[ QUOTE ]
It really doesn't matter now,they are being nationalized as we speak

[/ QUOTE ]

So when Chrysler took their loan in 1979 or so, did you consider them "nationalized?"

[ QUOTE ]
That's what happens when you don't get your ducks lined up- they had YEARS to initiate change and elected not to trim the fat.


[/ QUOTE ]

No, when you borrow some money from the government to sustain yourself, there will be some terms to be met. And judging by all the interest in numerous forums, I would think most people don't understand that GM needed to trim the fat a long time ago but didn't due to their brands being institutions. Now they're up against the wall and they have no other choice. It was a valiant effort, but it should have been done long ago. Personally, I don't blame them for resisting, but when the rest of the world operates in a competitive manner (and while the world has become more global), why did GM continue to lug this weight around?

[ QUOTE ]
Just wait and see what castrated products are going to be offered in a couple of years from an auto giant run by politcians. It is not this admins fault- the blame lies squarely on Lutz and Waggoner IMO

[/ QUOTE ]

Get over yourself - the government is not running GM, and nothing's gonna be watered down. And GM would not have its current successes without Lutz, as he opened many doors that were kept closed by GM's clumsy bureaucracy.

Re: Pontiac may be dead by monday..
 

[ QUOTE ]

You can't pay hillbillys six figures a year to screw on dashboards-then keep them on a oxygen tube until their dirt nap. That's not meant to imply they shouldn't receive bennies.


[/ QUOTE ]

In order to make 100,000 a year in an auto plant one would have to work 12 hours during the week and 16s on the weekends. One would have to sleep in their car between shifts and sometimes not go home for two days. And guess what? no one has made 100,000 in a long time. The days of unlimited overtime are over. A 40 hour check is all they see.

And for you information, the hillbillies that work for Toyota down in Georgetown make more than the Detroit hillbillies do. Are you pissed about that too?

Re: Pontiac may be dead by monday..
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I never said GM made crap.


[/ QUOTE ]

Get over yourself - the government is not running GM, and nothing's gonna be watered down. And GM would not have its current successes without Lutz, as he opened many doors that were kept closed by GM's clumsy bureaucracy.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly what current success's are you referring to?. When the leader of the free world can turf the CEO of the largest auto mfg in the world that my freind is a harbinger of things to come.

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

Re: Pontiac may be dead by monday..
 

[/ QUOTE ]

In order to make 100,000 a year in an auto plant one would have to work 12 hours during the week and 16s on the weekends. One would have to sleep in their car between shifts and sometimes not go home for two days. And guess what? no one has made 100,000 in a long time. The days of unlimited overtime are over. A 40 hour check is all they see.

And for you information, the hillbillies that work for Toyota down in Georgetown make more than the Detroit hillbillies do. Are you pissed about that too?

[/ QUOTE ]

The average UAW worker with a high school degree earns 57.6% more compensation than the average university professor with a Ph.D., and 52.6% more than the average worker at Toyota, Honda or Nissan.

The cost of labor per hour for GM is nearly $80 an hour when all employee related outlays are considered.

Re: Pontiac may be dead by monday..
 

[ QUOTE ]


Exactly what current success's are you referring to?. When the leader of the free world can turf the CEO of the largest auto mfg in the world that my freind is a harbinger of things to come.


[/ QUOTE ]

Current successes?

- Corvette in all its iterations
- Competitive Chevy Malibu and Saturn Aura models
- Gorgeous styling of the Solstice and Sky
- Everything Caddy touches
- Buick's success in quality polls
- Their trucks are always dependable

Want more? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/naughty.gif

Could you offer some evidence of your slippery slope? When Chrysler had their loan, it wasn't a harbinger. Methinks you're using a political bias to make a populist point that doesn't have any foundation of truth.

Re: Pontiac may be dead by monday..
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


Exactly what current success's are you referring to?. When the leader of the free world can turf the CEO of the largest auto mfg in the world that my freind is a harbinger of things to come.


[/ QUOTE ]

Current successes?

- Corvette in all its iterations
- Competitive Chevy Malibu and Saturn Aura models
- Gorgeous styling of the Solstice and Sky
- Everything Caddy touches
- Buick's success in quality polls
- Their trucks are always dependable

Want more? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/naughty.gif

Could you offer some evidence of your slippery slope? When Chrysler had their loan, it wasn't a harbinger. Methinks you're using a political bias to make a populist point that doesn't have any foundation of truth.

[/ QUOTE ]

The truth is these great design wins( not being facetious,read my above post) you have mentioned haven't hepled them turn a profit. The problem is not in the product,but the Union.
What was once a benefit has now become an entitlement, and how dare anyone question an entitlement??. While the UAW fairly negotiated retirement and health care plans, no one, on either side, factored the ultimate cost of those benefits. Once in contract law, those plans become entitlements and are therefore sacrosanct.They become "the cost of doing business". G.M., Ford, and Chrysler are the U.S. in microcosm - the "promises" cannot be kept without bankrupting the parent corporation. A slippery slope indeed..

The diff between Chrysler in 1980 and now was they actually had a real LEADER and VISIONARY who volunteered to work for a buck a year-not pushed to do it. Like Gene Stallings said in Forrest Gump "We sure could used him now"

Re: Pontiac may be dead by monday..
 

Bye Bye Miss American Pie............not too many slices left.............

Re: Pontiac may be dead by monday..
 

Gross wage of a UAW worker is around 54,000 a year. 2007 was the first year Toyota workers made more than the UAW wage.

http://www.autoblog.com/2007/01/31/t...-first-time-l/

http://factcheckcms.bootnetworks.com...iew.php?id=865

http://www.uaw.org/auto/11_25_08auto2.cfm

Re: Pontiac may be dead by monday..
 

Look, I live in what used to be the heart of GM and the UAW. My customer base for close to 40 years has been the GM workers. They is NO WAY they make 70 per hour. Here is a video of how the media came up with that rediculous number. Come on people, does anyone with half a brain think someone on the line makes 70 bucks an hour for "putting some bolts in a dash"?

http://www.uaw.org/auto/12_01_08auto1.cfm

Re: Pontiac may be dead by monday..
 

[ QUOTE ]

The truth is these great design wins( not being facetious,read my above post) you have mentioned haven't hepled them turn a profit. The problem is not in the product,but the Union.

[/ QUOTE ]

While the Unions have their own issues (I'd rather see them gone, but that's unrealistic), it's absolutely unfair to put blame on them while touting product. What you're missing is that GM's business model sucks. If product is king, how come a profit is so hard to come by? Place blame where it belongs - in the towers of the Ren Cen in downtown Detroit.


[ QUOTE ]

The diff between Chrysler in 1980 and now was they actually had a real LEADER and VISIONARY who volunteered to work for a buck a year-not pushed to do it. Like Gene Stallings said in Forrest Gump "We sure could used him now"

[/ QUOTE ]

Ask veterans at Chrysler what they think of Lido. Chances are they don't think of him too fondly. However, he has a great PR agent. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/naughty.gif

Re: Pontiac may be dead by monday..
 

Looks like it's over. The Government and the UAW now essentually own GM.

http://www.cleveland.com/business/in..._89_perce.html

Be sure to read the comments to the article that follow

Re: Pontiac may be dead by monday..
 

An e-mail I received from Pontiac




Dear Glenn,

I wanted you to hear directly from General Motors about an important
announcement we made recently to phase out the Pontiac brand by year end 2010. As a Pontiac owner, you are part of a rich heritage and tradition that had its inception back in 1926. Pontiac has some of the best-looking, best-driving and best-engineered cars in the U.S., and this was a particularly difficult business decision for us to make.

As a valued Pontiac and General Motors customer, I want to assure you that we are very sensitive to your concerns and needs. Pontiac will continue in operation through the end of 2010 and, following that date, you will continue to be able to receive service on your Pontiac vehicle at any Buick-Pontiac-GMC Dealer. Your Pontiac vehicle warranty coverage is unchanged. Please refer to your vehicle warranty booklet for specific details on your vehicle's coverage.

As GM reinvents itself for you and our future customers, we want to thank you for your business. We will work hard to keep you in our family, providing some of the finest quality vehicles in the world.

If you have any concerns or questions, please feel free to call our Pontiac Customer Assistance Center at 1-800-762-2737.

Sincerely,


Susan E. Docherty
North American Vice President
Buick-Pontiac-GMC



General Motors Corporation • P.O. Box 33170 • Detroit, Michigan 48232-5170
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


If you prefer not to receive any unsolicited marketing emails regarding GM vehicles, click here.

To review the GM Privacy Statement, click here.

For Copyright & Trademark Information, click here.

GM, the GM logo and the slogans, emblems, vehicle model names, vehicle body designs and other marks appearing in this email are the trademarks and/or service marks of General Motors Corporation, its subsidiaries, affiliates or licensors. ©2009 General Motors Corp. Buckle up, America!

General Motors Corporation
P.O. Box 33170
Detroit, MI 48232-5170

Re: Pontiac may be dead by monday..
 

[ QUOTE ]
An e-mail I received from Pontiac




Dear Glenn,




If you have any concerns or questions, please feel free to call our Pontiac Customer Assistance Center at 1-800-762-2737.

Sincerely,



President [image]http://http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/i...nt_Of_The_.png[/image]




General Motors Corporation • P.O. Box 33170 • Detroit, Michigan 48232-5170
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


If you prefer not to receive any unsolicited marketing emails regarding GM vehicles, click here.

To review the GM Privacy Statement, click here.

For Copyright & Trademark Information, click here.

GM, the GM logo and the slogans, emblems, vehicle model names, vehicle body designs and other marks appearing in this email are the trademarks and/or service marks of General Motors Corporation, its subsidiaries, affiliates or licensors. ©2009 General Motors Corp. Buckle up, America!

General Motors Corporation
P.O. Box 33170
Detroit, MI 48232-5170

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Pontiac may be dead by monday..
 

Will PHS be affected by this? I wouldn't think so, but don't know how much (if any) direct affiliation they have with Pontiac.

Re: Pontiac may be dead by monday..
 

Pretty sure all those PHS documents have been smuggled out of the country and are safe.........

Re: Pontiac may be dead by monday..
 

They are being hidden in the same crypt that houses the Chevy docs. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/naughty.gif

Re: Pontiac may be dead by monday..
 

10 Greatest Pontiac's of ALL TIME ???????

http://www.autoblog.com/photos/top-1...-time/1518641/