Re: Chevrolet pulls the wraps off of the new Camar
 

You were the one comparing the Mustang to the Vette. I'm glad Jim got the wagon. I feel better now.

Re: Chevrolet pulls the wraps off of the new Camar
 

Glad I could help. Congrats on sale of snake.

Re: Chevrolet pulls the wraps off of the new Camar
 

Back to the Camaro......... Slots in front of the rear wheels and 4 little rectangular gauges on the console do not make a retro Camaro! The rest of the car looks like a fat Cadillac.
1. The car was designed by a committee, not by stylists
2. They've been asleep too long and forgotten that their JOB is to build cars that people want to buy.
3. They need a new perk; a fixture in their executive bathrooms to give their brains an enema.
4. They've been acting this way for soooo long that they deserve to go under.

OK, I've vented........
Verne https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/frown.gif

Re: Chevrolet pulls the wraps off of the new Camar
 

Re: Chevrolet pulls the wraps off of the new Camaro

Throw the wraps back on. Like I've said before; they missed it!

Re: Chevrolet pulls the wraps off of the new Camar
 

Thats exactly how I felt until I saw both the coupe and CV in person at SEMA last year. Incredible in person. Pictures just don't do them justice in my opinion. I am buying one if the HP hits 500

Re: Chevrolet pulls the wraps off of the new Camar
 

"Opinions vary." https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

Re: Chevrolet pulls the wraps off of the new Camar
 

"Les is more" https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

Re: Chevrolet pulls the wraps off of the new Camar
 

I agree with the "fat Cadillac" reference. Who really thinks this mirrors the 67-69 enough to call it a retro?
You would think that GM would recognize that if a POS 69 Camaro that will crank and run will bring 10 grand, they don't have to fret about how many they could sell if they emulated that car as close to the original as Ford did with the T-bird.
Maybe the brainchild behind this version is the son of the guy that came up with the Cadillac Cimarron!

Re: Chevrolet pulls the wraps off of the new Camar
 

I concede styling is always subjective but have you seen it yet in person? And I think in reading interviews Chevy does not intend for this new car to be "retro" I recall they specifically said they wanted to pay homage to the old car without doing a knock off of the old one like the Challenger and Mustang are.

Re: Chevrolet pulls the wraps off of the new Camar
 

It's no secret that Cadillac engineers did design the new Camaro.

http://autofix.com.au/blog/wp-conten...dillac-cts.jpg

Re: Chevrolet pulls the wraps off of the new Camar
 

The new Camaro is not the retro version that they had designed.

Re: Chevrolet pulls the wraps off of the new Camar
 

You're right,I just meant I see their influence are all over this final design too.

Re: Chevrolet pulls the wraps off of the new Camar
 

[ QUOTE ]
LatebreakU2,

The ZR-1 isn't even todays HP champ my Supersnake is at 725 HP and runs the quarter at 11.30 at 131 MPH same as the Vette. Of course the Vette is vastly superior on a road course but also can't fit all my kids for an ice cream run either? Shelby has stated he will win this era's HP wars and has a 1000 HP engine on the dyno getting ready for cerification right now if GM or the euro builders make it necessary. The new ZR-1 appears to be perhaps the worlds best supercar but as it stands now Ford looks like it will win this era's MUSCLECAR HP war? Muscle car in that it fits a family all week and can be used at the strip on weekends.

[/ QUOTE ]

Les.with all due respect Carroll was a road racer and that's what his cars were designed for. Manufacturers have been building performance cars for "touring" since 1/4 mile specific applications died in 1971 with the bias ply tire(and first gas crisis) Back to hijacking the thread that ZR1 is one impressive car,have you seen it's record run the ring?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6mEirkQN8o

The eight minute barrier used to be reserved for pretty elite company in the automotive world-that chap who did the 7:26 left about about 10-15 seconds out there, staggering for a euro exotic supercar car,let alone a GM car! The stang might have the #"s but the ZR is within a few horsepower and I think around 700 lbs lighter..that's huge.

I would like to see if ford has the stones to allow a buff mag to test the 4000lb Snake Vs the 4000 lb Camaro SS with the big motor heads up on the Nordshieffe-put John Heinricy in the Camaro and a ford contract driver de jour in the stang.. I think it would be very interesting https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/naughty.gif

Re: Chevrolet pulls the wraps off of the new Camar
 

Latebreak,
In my opinion 4000 pound cars are not good for much if anything? That anything being a drag strip. While the Supersnake has been lowered, now has brake cooling ducts, adjustable coil over Eibach suspension with adjustable shocks or dampers as you road racers like to call them, 6 piston Baer calipers, huge new rotors and new Eibach sway bars its still 4000 pounds and doesn't belong anywhere but a drag strip from my viewpoint due to its weight. I think those suspension mods were added to help from people taking their new 725 HP Mustang and promptly killing themselves while driving home. The new Supersnake is not an "R" model with the interior removed and safety equipment added.

From years of road racing and Karting and the deaths of a few friends on so called open track days in their high end supercars. I came to the conclusion that the only car that should be on a road course is a purpose built track car with the proper saftey equipment and lots and lots of weight removed. I guess the new ACR Viper might be the exception but the new ZR-1 is still in my view strictly a street car and as I have repeatedly said on this thread probably the worlds best new supercar.

Ford is building a new Mustang for 2010 with independent rear suspension and will more clearly compete with the new camaro in terms of a road course test. All the suspension tweaks Shelby does is simply to make the new cars handle better due to leaving Ford grossly obese. Remember he built 36 purpose built track cars in 1965 for the Mustang and a many comp Cobra's. It seems to me Shelby has always had comp cars and cars for weekend road racers. However in the 60s those Mustangs were capable of barely 120 MPH. Now his new Supersnake will easily exceed 200 MPH. I can't imagine he thinks any of his customers are capable of safely driving a street car on a road course at those speeds.

Re: Chevrolet pulls the wraps off of the new Camar
 

I personally think this is a great look for the new Camaro. I have no problem putting this in my garage as long as it is a 6-speed. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ins/3gears.gif +2


http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/n...hgencamaro.jpg

Re: Chevrolet pulls the wraps off of the new Camar
 

Kurt,

That is one of the best photos I have seen so far https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif . Lemans Blue? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif

Re: Chevrolet pulls the wraps off of the new Camar
 

[ QUOTE ]
Kurt,

That is one of the best photos I have seen so far https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif . Lemans Blue? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I second that https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...iggthumpup.gif Is the rear spoiler part of the SS package?

Re: Chevrolet pulls the wraps off of the new Camar
 

[ QUOTE ]
Kurt,

That is one of the best photos I have seen so far https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif . Lemans Blue? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I am not sure of what color this is. I found this picture off of a website. I love the wheel/tire combo. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/naughty.gif


[ QUOTE ]
I second that https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...iggthumpup.gif Is the rear spoiler part of the SS package?

[/ QUOTE ]

As far as the spoiler, here is a video of the new Camaro which shows the actual spoiler that is being used. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yE4ygd1qJOU
I like the one on the blue Camaro better. I hope GM looks at using it at a later date or a aftermarket company makes one like it. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...iggthumpup.gif

Re: Chevrolet pulls the wraps off of the new Camar
 

I'm curious, anybody know what engine options are available? The last thing I had heard was that the base model would be a v6. The highest performance option was going to the stock Vette (a pricey option, I'm sure) 405hp motor.

Re: Chevrolet pulls the wraps off of the new Camar
 

I like the new Camaro but, noticed the poor fitment of the hood on the cars in the video. I hope those are pre-production cars and they get that ironed out before the cars hit the showrooms.

Re: Chevrolet pulls the wraps off of the new Camar
 

Chevrolet has unveiled the 2010 Camaro sports car, resuming a 35-year production history that ran from 1967-2002. GM strove to strike a balance between performance and efficiency, and is offering the Camaro with a 3.6-liter V-6 direct injection engine delivering an estimated 26 mpg highway, and two V-8s, one of which offers Active Fuel Management (AFM, cylinder deactivation), for 23 mpg US. All engine options are matched with six-speed transmissions.

The 3.6L direct-injected V-6 in the LS and LT models employs variable valve timing to optimize performance and fuel economy across the rpm range. It is rated at an estimated 300 hp (224 kW) and 273 lb.-ft. of torque (370 Nm). A six-speed manual transmission is standard with the 3.6L engine; a Hydra-Matic 6L50 electronically controlled six-speed automatic, with TAPshift control, is available.

(For a historical—40 model years—comparison, the 1970 model year Camaro offered a base six-cylinder engine of 250 CID displacement (4.1 liters) that developed 155 hp. The new Camaro uses a smaller engine with almost twice the power output.)

The high-performance Camaro SS is equipped with a 6.2L V-8, with a choice of a six-speed manual or six-speed automatic transmission. Standard, manual transmission-equipped models receive the LS3 engine, estimated at 422 horsepower (315 kW) and 408 lb.-ft. of torque (553 Nm). The LS3 debuted on the 2008 Corvette and uses high-flow cylinder heads based on the Corvette Z06’s LS7 engine to enable high low-end torque and high-rpm power. It is paired with a TR6060 six-speed transmission.

A new, L99 V-8 engine is used on automatic transmission-equipped SS models. It is based on the LS3 and carries all of its high-performance design features, but also includes GM’s fuel-saving Active Fuel Management feature, enabling the engine to run on only four cylinders during light-load driving conditions, such as highway cruising, to improve fuel economy.

The V-8 is estimated at 400 horsepower (299 kW) and 395 lb.-ft. of torque (535 Nm); and it is matched with a Hydra-Matic 6L80 six-speed transmission. This combination delivers an estimated 23 mpg on the highway.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/images/camarospecs.pdf

As far as prices, I haven't seen any that are confirmed, only speculations.

Kurt https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

Re: Chevrolet pulls the wraps off of the new Camar
 

Here's the problem that nobody ever seems to address in these threads regarding the new Camaro-- Who's going to buy it?

At the pricing point / performance point of the base model, there are at least 10 other cars out there that already have (arguably) better performance, more utility, better MPG, and most importantly, an established market position. Most notably, the GTI, the Honda Civic Si, Mazda 3, etc... I could keep going. Cars marketed to younger people for fun, but also everyday transportation. RWD, 300 hp? Okay, not the best combo for a young driver, and THEN this young driver must be insured. And, if you look at the Camaro in the showroom and don't make the buy, what are you left to look at, the Cobalt? The Malibu? Yikes and yikes. O-boy, here we go... Overall point-- Sure you'll maybe sell it to a few secretaries, but unless there are huge fleet sales, a la the Mustang, I see very little chance of success, because the product is positioned too narrowly in a segment with broad needs.

Regarding the higher-end options, I see a similar cunundrum-- When is horsepower too much, who's going to buy this car before a Mustang, an Infiniti G37, BMW 3-series, etc...? This is also a crowded segment, and it seems Chevy completely skipped a middle-of-the-road offering and went for 400 hp. What are there, 100 gearheads on this board, maybe another 1000 actively talking about this car on various other forums... Let's hope they manage to sell more than 1500 units.

So, let's see here: No 4-door offering to net those in that want the car but need more (*other than the Mustang and Challenger, every other performance car at this pricing point has a 4-door variant), it's not exactly cheap to insure 300, 400, and 422 hp, and we haven't even discussed MPG... Those MPG figures will plummet when your foot is into 422 hp, and I doubt in the real-world, the quoted MPG will ever be seen.

GM already has an albatross around their neck with Hummer and the trucks-- Do you want to be promoting thirsty performance to the world with your next big offering? Seems to me like they should be trying to figure out a 422 hp electric car that can carry five, and some bags in the trunk.

Hey, don't get me wrong-- If you've ever seen Trans Am racing, it's the best series ever put together. And if the mfgr's building these cars would spark a series, that would be great. However, the Big 3 have bigger problems than funding racing programs.

I hope for Chevy that they meet success, but the cards were stacked against them from the start, and in my opinion, even though they may have created a winner for some, they didn't do the best job of creating a sales success, which is the most important thing.

My overall prediction is that the Camaro may be exciting, but will be a black-eye style sales failure.

Re: Chevrolet pulls the wraps off of the new Camar
 

I think 300hp and 27mpg is pretty darn good for a V6.

GM could have come out with more engine options although how cost effective can that be. Maybe down the road they will. I also think anyone buying a 400 or 422 hp motor, they are not really worried about fuel mileage or insurance rates.

If a 4-door is needed the Pontiac G8 is an awesome alternative with a V6 or a V8, which is 361hp. These cars with the V8 stay with the 425hp Charger! With a price tag of around $30,000.

The Chevrolet Volt is on its way in 2010 if you want an electric car. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif


Kurt https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/n...ors-Camaro.jpg

Re: Chevrolet pulls the wraps off of the new Camar
 

In my opinion the ball in is Chevy's court; sure they dragged bringing this car to market out way too long but, as long as they keep the price of this car in line with the Mustang GT, I think they'll sell plenty of them. If Chevy, or the dealers, jack the price up too high then we'll see sales struggle.
I would love to buy a brand new SS with a stick shift and if the price isn't outrageous I just might.

Re: Chevrolet pulls the wraps off of the new Camar
 

WELL I WAS REALLY DISAPOINTED AT FIRST WHEN I SAW PIC'S OF THE NEW CAMARO. BUT AS I LOOK AT MORE AND MORE OF THE NEW PIC'S I AM CHANGING MY MIND. I WOULD LIKE MINE IN BLACK WITH WHITE STRIPES. THE HORSE POWER CUOLD BE BETTER AND I HOPE THE GENRAL GETS THE MESSAGE, AND INCREASES THE HP FOR THE SECOND YEAR. IT IS JUST PLAIN GOOD TO HAVE THE CAMARO BACK.