Re: Nice car, but so much wrong
 

Put me down for one that Calls em like I sees em.. WHEN THEY ARE FOR SALE....I like to think that for everyone who replies to such a post, there are many more who just use the information as a SPONGE and are getting that Free Education. I don't think anyone wants to intentionally HURT somebody's feelings when they point out an incorrect restoration item.. but if not said, it perpetuates the problem and the next guy makes the same mistake b/c he saw that other car that had it... and FWIW.. I have seen many HIGH DOLLAR so called professional restorations with mistakes ... things that would not take much research to have been made right.

Of course it all depends on how the add is written.. if it is obviously a driver, no need to point out restoration correct items, but if Marketed as a Numbers Matching, Frame Off, Nut and Bolt, Yada Yada rare car... put on the Vest!

I have no problem with it, as long as said car is FOR SALE, be it on Ebay, here, at Team Chevelle, an auction or at a car show... I wouldn't expect anyone to critique anyone's car in an open forum if it was not for sale though.

Mike

Re: Nice car, but so much wrong
 

I know I'm gonna get killed for this but it has bothered me for a long time so here goes. My opinion and maybe only mine is that Baldwin Motion cars are junk. They are nowhere near as rare or desirable as any COPO. They were a standard RPO Chevy that was delivered to a speed shop and make no mistake not a shop that had any special connection to Chevrolet or any other manufacturer but just a speed shop not unlike the one in your town. When I started my business restoring cars in 1991, the first car we restored was a "Phase III" '71 Camaro. This car was a 7,100 mile unmolested car when we got it. I was shocked at the way Motion hacked and cobbled the installation of any thing they did. This car had the Hone overdrive and when the owner previous to the one we were restoring the car for first put slicks on it and hammered it, the overdrive even though not engaged, suffered lathed gears. This unit was so under engineered it could have never held up to the LS6 engine in the car. There were many other things wrong. Even though the engine had never been worked on, when it was disassembled it had one open chamber and one closed chamber head. I wonder who the genius was that did that?When Motion installed the fibre glass hood there was no place to attach the windshield squirters so they just let them dangle down the firewall on the hoses. Also people like to say how fast Joel Rosen's cars went. Why did he only run AHRA and not NHRA? Because he could never go fast enough to meet the standard of performance in NHRA's classes. The only guys from Motion that really ran well to my knowledge were Dennis Ferrara and Bill Mitchell and Mitchell did it with Volkswagens! Also a car that was not delivered by Baldwin and sent to Motion as a new car should not be considered a Baldwin Motion car. If it was purchased at another dealer and sent to Motion for mods later it should be considered just another speed shop hacked car and priced accordingly. This should also go for cars sent to Yenko, Harrell or any other speed shop after they were used. I just do not think a car purchased at another dealer and sent to Yenko for mods is anything other than a plain old modified car. I know I will probably get death threats for this but it is MY OPINION and I will stand behind it. the reason I bring this up is, the value of these cars is getting so high that I feel we need to keep it honest and not assign high prices or Godlike status to non COPO cars. Frank

Re: Nice car, but so much wrong
 

Gentlemen, there is an old proverb: It is better to remain silent and be thought of as a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all of the doubt. In addition to that, remember your mother's words of wisdom, that if you can't say something nice, then don't say anything.
People who do not behave this way have been invited to leave, and often there are sincere apologies when that's what is called for.
One of the best things about this site is that you can PM someone when you don't want to be heard by everyone.
I have received some very nice compliments about my car, despite my stated opinion that I don't care for points judging. Somebody once told me that if you think the Corvette judging is anal, go to a dog show, and you won't think that car shows are so bad.
Samething applies to cars for sale, buy it or don't, but why attack it if you have no interest in it.
Everbody: Can't we all just get along?
Andy

Re: Nice car, but so much wrong
 

Andy, I don't know you and wasn't picking on your car. I am voicing my opinion because I want to make sure Supercars remain the elite group they are. I am not bashing any ones car in particular and everything I wrote pertained to what I had seen on two of the cars I personally worked on. I don't want any one to think I am trying to stir up trouble or trying upset the web masters. I enjoy this site and all who are on it. This is America and we are all free to voice our views good bad or otherwise. Thanks, Frank

Re: Nice car, but so much wrong
 

Frank, no offense taken! I was addressing the Forum, and since I generally refer to my Camaro as a "beater", which in my opinion it is, I happen to agree with what you said.
I love cars, and hope that I never lose the passion, but if I do, I'll get over it and move on.
I may not take my love of these cars as seriously as some folks do, but I can still relate to their passion, even if I don't quite share it on the same level. I just hope they can do the same for everybody else.
Peace, Love and Freedom.
Andy

Re: Nice car, but so much wrong
 

If you ask for an appraisal,then that is what you should get. It can be handled tactfully and with class. There is obviously a wealth of knowledge on this board. Would the site not be better served with a dedicated forum for those, "in the know", to discuss their opinions of somene's car? A moderated forum that, keeps bashing in check and makes for an enjoyable and informative read for us other gearheads. I would be in favor of just such a forum. Then when someone gets out of line in another forum, they can be escorted to the newly created critique forum, or perhaps even escorted off the site if they can't make nice comments. I just think the site will be better in the long run if overzealous comments are reined-in. Once again, if someone asks for opinions or selling tips, give them a forum to receive what they want. Thanks for all that responded so far.

Re: Nice car, but so much wrong
 

[ QUOTE ]
I know I'm gonna get killed for this but it has bothered me for a long time so here goes. My opinion and maybe only mine is that Baldwin Motion cars are junk. Frank [/quote ]

Gee Frank feeling better now.........???

Re: Nice car, but so much wrong
 

I'm with you, Joe. Joel R is a friend of mine and it frustrates me to see this debate on the WWW. Joel's creations may not be for everyone, but that doesn't open the door for such brash disrespect for a living legend, IMO. PM me if you want Joel's E numbers, phone numbers, addy...or does that require something your keyboard can't hatch? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bs.gif

SS

Re: Nice car, but so much wrong
 

I agree LV.. Discussion of a car for sale is one thing, but to bash someone's efforts or reputation , (be it a personal opinion or otherwise) in a public forum seems to not be too productive or beneficial to the hobby.

Re: Nice car, but so much wrong
 

Frank I gotta disagree. When I looked over the 80 Motion Camaro I had I was amazed by the extra steps Motion took when I think they could have fudged instead. Stuff like two holley fuel pumps. The second one turning on by micro switch when under full throttle with the Nitrous on. The Chrysler Liberty 4 speed versus just leaving a muncie in. The electric fan in front of the radiator in addition to the regular fan. The electric one was controlled by a capillary tube inserted under the upper radiator hose where it attaches to the radiator. The list went on and on. Yes any speed shop could do that also but it was done by Motion. You could bitch at Yenko for doing nothing more that hiring kids to apply stripes on Deuces or just adding stripes to COPO cars. I think Motion should also be commended for the wild and cool looks they did to alot of their cars. Your bashing seems pretty harsh for what appears to be based on exposure to two cars. As for drag racing, maybe some can chime in on what they accomplished.