Re: 2- 2002 camaro ss converts new on mso
 

JoeC,
The up-dated styling of the T-bird just catches my eye ,but never inquired, if there was a performance package, or was it just set up for leisurely touring for mid-life crissis guys like myself---maybe if Chevy presented performance options, to make it affordable at different performance levels,[ to the Masses-]---Really hate to see the camaro shelved First Oldsmobile, Camaro.next????-- [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]---JoeG -as someone mentioned earlier a 69 retro Z28 Road suspension/ performance package, might convert some new generation ricers to the original "Heartbeat of America"---Chevrolet---JoeG [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif[/img]---- [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif[/img]

Price of retro T-bird?-----Any performance or road handling packages?

Re: 2- 2002 camaro ss converts new on mso
 

The new T-Birds are kind of weird.They took bits of styling from several different years and at first you couldn't get one.Now I see them on a lot of dealer lots.

Re: 2- 2002 camaro ss converts new on mso
 

The new T-birds are too slow. I saw a new red Mach 1 today and I like it. The Mustang still looks Mustangish.

Re: 2- 2002 camaro ss converts new on mso
 

the camaro went a restyle every ten years, and added body pieces every five. GM needs to do what the imports do, have a design for 5 to 6 years then redo it. It keeps the attraction and value up.

My two cents anyway.

Re: 2- 2002 camaro ss converts new on mso
 

[ QUOTE ]
Joe you are right on. IMO the tired style of the 4th gen Camaro hurt sales. They had the same style from 1993-2002 and many buyers became tired of it. GM has the tendency to keep body styles around for to long. Car companies like Damiler Chrysler are on the cutting edge on constant style change. The Ford Mustang continues to put up the numbers like the 79 Camaro did which suprises me because they lack in performance. The 2005 Mustang coming out will be a hit.

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Ironically, the current Mustang basically debuted in '94, a mere year later than the 4th Gen. Camaros, but they both got the same front/rear "updates" over the years. And to top it off, the Mustang rides on the same Fox body underpinnings as the cars that rolled off the line in '79 did...yet they kicked the Camaro's tail in sales. Older underpinnings, less performance, same price...yet the Mustang lives.

Why? Let's compare...

The Z/28 and the SS would run off and hide from the Mustang (and could hang with the Cobras) until the '03 Cobras came out. The cars were priced almost identical, giving the the Camaro the bang-per-buck vote, and they both debuted new body styles at roughly the same time. The lack of chassis update on the Mustang gives the edge to the Camaro which also owns the Mustang in the curves, and even helps when going straight.

So, what REALLY brought down the axe? Marketing? Lack of interest by GM executives? I think the new T-bird is proof that nostalgia alone won't sell cars, as the boys at F@rd would take a kick to the groin to move their new retro toys. I foresee the same thing happening with the SSR.

GM just shot themselves in the foot. By dropping the F-body platform totally, they forced the people that were after cheap thrills to buy Fords, and some of those people will probably NEVER be back in a GM. The GTO and the new SS truck they are debuting aren't gonna fill the voids like they are hoping, because they have 2 strikes against them already: they're both too darn slow and too darn expensive. Why build a "performance truck" that is more expensive, yet SLOWER than something already on the market?! Same thing with the GTO, as Ford has finally figured out performance is "ok" and stepped up with the new Cobra, the Mach 1, etc. For the $35K+ that the GTO will cost, you could step into a new Cobra that will have 390hp and run 2 seconds quicker in the 1/4!! In fact, I read a GM press release pushing back the previous performance numbers on the new GTO to high 14s?!...I'm guessing so they don't disappoint the buyers, or so they don't copy F@rd's fiasco with the Cobra intake.

Ok, "smelly opinion" time. So, exactly WHY DID GM CAN THE F-BODY? I say it's the bottom line...all of the automakers make more $$$ off of the SUVs/trucks than they do any other model. Dropping a car line just forces more people to buy trucks, which makes GM more $$$.

And unfortunately, car guys don't run GM...accountants do.

Re: 2- 2002 camaro ss converts new on mso
 

It was explained to me that the Union Contract with the workers at the Canadian Plant was a big part of it. GM wanted to no longer build at that plant but part of the Contract says they can't build them anywhere else. At some point I guess the Contract stipulates how long before they can be built anywhere else. They built Camaro's up till the last day that they legally could and then shut it down. I think that if they wanted to build a Camaro right now they would be bound by Contract to build it at that Plant only and that is not what they want to do.

Re: 2- 2002 camaro ss converts new on mso
 

[ QUOTE ]
JoeC,
if there was a performance package

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JoeC,

I am almost positive that the Saleen company was toying with the idea of a hotrod(ed) thunderbird. I will try to find the article.

-Dan

Re: 2- 2002 camaro ss converts new on mso
 

I've always thought that they wanted to shut down the F-body plant because it was only producing the Camaro and Firebird and there wasn't any profit there. It would be too expensive to retrofit that plant to produce other vehicles so they shut it down. I hadn't heard about the Union contract thing though. GM definitely stopped marketing the F-body back in 98 so it's no surprise the sales dropped off. Hopefully the Camaro will be back some day and still be a V8 rear wheel drive platform.

Re: 2- 2002 camaro ss converts new on mso
 

Those wacky accountants [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: 2- 2002 camaro ss converts new on mso
 

[ QUOTE ]
The Mustang still looks Mustangish.

[/ QUOTE ]
Chris396,
I personally think you are looking thru the eyes of the car enthusiast on the street, which I think is correct.----MUSTANG stood the automotive world on it's ear with it's fresh styling----the intial stlying kind of lost it's way in the 80'IMO ,but Ford has slowly gotten back to the "C" frame shape of the 60's-----IDENTITY---if you took all the emblems off the new mustang and new camaro and then compared them to old 60's photo's ,you wouldn't need emblems for the MUSTANG to recognize it---just like the Corvette---no matter how they modernized styling the Corvette and Mustang kept their identity in-tact------IMO I always thought the Camaro tried to be a new Mustang with their new design and just kind of pushed the styling that got them there, completely away--I know a lot of you fellas are saying I'm full of crap, but that's OK because we're just kicking some ideas around---when you get a chance look thru some old photos of Mustangs--Camaros--Corvettes and it makes you think Maybe Ford does have it's finger on the pulse of the car enthusiast---- especially with their new performance[Total Package handling/styling/performance--You Gets Your Moneys Worth].--Yes I am a CHEVY-MAN. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]--JoeG [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif[/img]