Re: COPO vs M & O Mopar
 

Joe
Look for an "M" as the 5TH digit of the VIN.
It denotes a- Special Order.
Chevy copy Mopar or Mopar copy Chevy ???
Just comparing a COPO chevelle VS a B/Body M-Code
It's very similar
Spªcial Hood(SS For the COPO)(Fiberlass lift off for the Mopar)
Standard rear end ratio for The COPO 4.10 and M-/B-Body 4.10
etc...
Kevin
I have no idea of the value of a 68 M-440 GSS on the market.
68 GTS 440 4-Speed: 48 (Hurst-Campbell built)
'68 GTS 440 Auto Trans: 30 (Hurst-Campbell built)
For the match my vote is for the Yenko Nova. [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/cool.gif[/img]
The only problem for the nova is the traction.

Re: COPO vs M & O Mopar
 

Myself and most, especially on a Yenko site; would probably vote on the Nova also. But ask for a vote on a Mopar site, and the opposite may happen.

Does any one know the weight of each one as equipped? the Dart is a likewise very light car which would have traction problems too. The L72 427 is factory rated at 425 HP, wheras the 440 is factory rated at 375 HP. But remember these are factory advertised numbers which are sometimes manipulated, so I wonder what each engine would truly Dyno at?

Re: COPO vs M & O Mopar
 

The 440 is a good motor but not one of the Big Guns that were born to race. Most of the American cars are fairly equal when it comes to cyl block, transmissions, rear ends etc. The difference is in the cyl head and intake design. The BB Chevys (square port head) , 426 Hemi, 427 Ford (tunnel port) and Boss 429 Ford (shotgun) engines were built to race. These were not desined as truck engines or for the trailer tow option on your station wagon. They were designed to run over 200mph in NASCAR, run 10 sec ETs in Super Stock, or to beat the best in the world in Can Am, and LeMans. Size does make a differnce - you need big heads to make big power. A good street engine is another story.

Re: COPO vs M & O Mopar
 

The real match for a 68 M-Gss 440 Dart is a 68 Gibbs COPO
Nova L78 (9738).
fourth M-Code 440 in the top 50.:D

5 1969 Roadrunner [email protected] 440 Six Pack 390 four-speed 4.10 SS 6/69

21 1969 Super Bee [email protected] 440 Six Pack 390 automatic 4.10 HR 8/69

31 1969 Dart 440 13.71@105 440 4V 375 automatic 3.55 CC 5/69

47 1969 Barracuda [email protected] 440 4V 375 automatic 4.10 SS 8/69

Re: COPO vs M & O Mopar
 

I believe this car listed below was equipped with headers.
I do not know of any 60s/70s cars tested when new that ran less then 13s without headers. There is a Car & Driver test of a narrow tire 1966 427 Corvette that was listed in the 12s but this test is not valid. Car & Driver admitted that they exagerated some test numbers or just made them up.

5 1969 Roadrunner [email protected] 440 Six Pack 390 four-speed 4.10 SS 6/69

Re: COPO vs M & O Mopar
 

Joe
This is not important the row or the exact time
just a mention of 4 M-Mopar in the top 50.
a mistake [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/confused.gif[/img] a put the Road name with the Bee pics and
the Bee name with the Road pics [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Re: COPO vs M & O Mopar
 

The 69 six barrel road runner tested in SSDI had 2 drivers an amatuer and a pro, the pro of course was Ronnie Sox who posted the 12.91 et on street tires no headers. By the way, Roland McGonegal was the amatuer, I think Ronnie made 5 passes in the car and Ro made 3, they used the average of both in an advertisement in several magazines in 69, the 12.91 was the best pass of the 8 made during the day of testing, there were several Chrysler engineers on had to help monitor the test, one of them was a carb expert. The 69 6bbl/six pack cars were M code only for 69, in 70 the code changed to V. The 70 cars came with cast iron intake manifolds instead of Aluminum like the 69 cars did. From the 2002 pure stock shoot out I think the Road Runner and Super Bee both gave good account of themselves being a 12.40 for the Bee and I think a 12.8 for the Road Runner both just a hair off the ZL1 and the Yenko but good close racing none the less. It is always good to see these cars doing what they were intended for.
Larry

Re: COPO vs M & O Mopar
 

There was a Mopar in the Pittsburgh area in 69 called the "Iron Horse". It was a 440 automatic that ran C stock. He ran at Keystone the same time I did and ran consistant 11s. I think he held the national record for awhile. I'm not a big Mopar fan but this car would run! he would run all over any street Hemi! I think Don Fezell owns the car now.

Re: COPO vs M & O Mopar
 

there is a web site devoted just to 1969 440 6bbl/six pack b bodies , the have a lot of info from when these cars were built, they were all built at the Lynch Road plant, and there is a very COPOish type print out of special instructions on how to build and code the vin on these cars along with where the special engines will come from etc. All the cars were built in 1 run so you could not go to a dealer and pick your options and then wait for the car, none had AC for example, all had DANA rears with 4.10, the automatic cars had 383 type converters but internally the trans had HEMI bands and and extra clutches. The 4speed
cars had HEMI trans with 18 spline input shafts. The production of these cars ended when Chrysler ran out of aluminum intakes to put on the cars. Edelbrock could not supply enough. That is why the 70 cars had iron intakes Chrysler cast them at one of the foundry's they had the other iron manifolds made.

I can tell you from personal experience these cars would clean almost any stock street Hemi's clock, I had to spot Hemi cars since AHRA ran cubes to weight and my 6pack bee ran C/Stock Formula 1 and a 426 street Hemi ran E/Stock Formula 1 . My handicap was a 7 and the Hemi was a 9 . I only ran 1 COPO car ever and it was a Chevelle we ran 4 times I won 3 , I do not think I could have beaten a ZL1 because back then we both would have had slicks and that lightweight would do the job.

the web site is www.homestead.com/sixpacksixbbl/index.html

Larry

Re: COPO vs M & O Mopar
 

The m-code cars are very interesting and similar to COPO as far as special assemblies but very different in the area of marketing and promotion. The m-code had special hood, graphics, and badgeing compared to COPOs which were kept quiet and very low key. Chevy had to hide them from GM upper management. I read the road tests on that web site but did not see one with a 12s time. Do you know what magazine that article was in or is it on-line? I would like to read it. In my opinion balancing, blueprinting, and Dyno tuning can sometimes get an extra 50hp and can put a pure stock in the 12s but to do it with a car off show room floor is hard to believe. With the pro driver and the Chrysler engineers there may have been something funny going on with that 12 sec drag test car. Just my opinion.