Re: Bogus Yenko sighting at Carlise
 

The same person that built those fakes also built a Black with red interior LS6 convert. that was owned by Dave Simpsom. Mecum auctions bought and sold it. Was told it sold at Barret Jackson this year for around 85,000

Re: Bogus Yenko sighting at Carlise
 

You guys are right. This fake thing is getting out of hand and is beginning to hurt the supercar hobby. I think that we need to get organized and see if we can slow down the buying/selling of fakes. I have began talking to various people who have many of the records related to the supercars to get their thoughts on this issue. I would like to see some sort of registry, such as what the SCCA (Shelby) people have. What are your thoughts/ideas? Tom

Re: Bogus Yenko sighting at Carlise
 

This is a REAL problem and getting worse!

I think a registry can certainly decrease the number of fakes. You certainly aren't likely to see any fake ZL-1's as all the VIN's are well known, Joel Rosen has the Baldwin Motion numbers and Ed Cunneen has a many of the COPO's. There are a number of other registries as well.

I've started a registry and have been collecting LS-6 convertible documentation, VIN's, cowl tag, and option info for both the fakes and the documented cars. I've found several excellent fakes that have sold for BIG dollars to (supposedly) knowledgeable collectors. Some of which are mentioned in Charley's post above.

The registries will be much more useful to the hobby as a whole if the information is released to the public rather than kept in private hands. Clubs such as this are a good way to exchange information about cars as well.

Another problem the fakes create is a devaluation of REAL cars which are not heavily documented. I've talked to some owners of legit cars that have had repro docs made because of this issue.

Many of the Yenko Club members have well into the 6 figures invested in their car(s) and while I believe most of us love our cars and the hobby. Let's face it, none of us want our "investments" devalued due to the fakes.

Many of the car related websites have helped to weed out the obvious fakes, but there are many excellent "built" cars out there. Trim tags, P-O-P's, window stickers, are all readily available just look in Hemmings each month. The only documentation that I'm aware of that is not widely faked is the buildsheet. I will generally extensively research any car I'm looking to buy and have gone as far as hiring a private detective to track down previous owners to ensure a car I was buying was legit.

Of course Chevrolet could release the "secret files" like Pontiac and GM of Canada did and the problem would virtually cease overnight.



[Edited by COPO (05-04-2000 at 08:50 PM).]

Re: Bogus Yenko sighting at Carlise
 

Agree with COPO on this one. All these wonderful sights (not being sarcastic they really are great) do everything they can to keep the vin numbers and related info to themselves to keep the general public in the dark about what makes the car real so its harder to build a fake. Problem is that the buyer IS the general public that doesn't have all the info so they have a hard time knowing if the car is real and take a chance thinking all that paperwork that comes with the car must mean its legit. Yenko's, COPO's and such and being "created" all the time. When was the last time you heard of a fake ZL1 being bought and sold as real but ending up being a fake? Maybe you have but very rare. Why? Because the vin numbers and all related info has been public access to anyone for some time now. Most of you guys with real cars don't want to give up your valuable info especially now with even more fakes being sold but its not helping keeping all the info to yourselves. Its easy to say that if you think the car your looking at is real then call Joel Rosen, Yenko Registry, CRG etc but it may be too late by that time or too many other questions come up and by that time the car is gone. The ZL1 cars may not be faked as much because of the low number made but I think it is more related to the fact that so much info is public including the vin numbers. Its not that easy to make a clone and use a legit vin number. There are plenty of registries with all kinds of critical data on all these websites and until the info is made public there will be tons of clones made. Seems to me the info isn't hard to get, just hard to get public. People give their info to the registries hoping it stays with the registries. I understand that but it doesn't do anyone else that wants to purchase these cars any good to have that info solely in the possesion of the people that already know how to tell the bad cars from the good. I'm not bitter but I blame the registries for alot of the clones. I used to think to myself that the people that buy these clones are sometimes fools for asking "is the car I just paid tons of money for real" after buying the car. You guys all reply buyer beware and ask these questions before hand but its almost impossible. Can I call Joel Rosen in one minute if I'm at a auction? I don't think so. The only way to stop the cloning is to not buy them. The only way to not buy them is to know its a clone. The only way to know its a clone it to have as much information about the kind of car you are looking at up front!! Sorry for making this so long and thank you for letting me vent. I don't mean to upset anyone by telling them they should make the info public knowledge but its the public buying these things

Re: Bogus Yenko sighting at Carlise
 

Fellow Enthusiasts:

I understand the logic regarding the ZL1 Camaros not being cloned because of the availability of the VIN #'s, but there is also a cost component to the ZL1's not being cloned. It is much easier and less expensive to install any big block engine into a '69 Camaro, spend less than $250 for some repro emblems and stripes, and clone a Yenko. If you wanted to clone a ZL1, it would be exponentially more expensive. I feel that the increased cost of searching for, and purchasing just the aluminum block and heads is enough to turn cloners away from the ZL1 model, and towards the Yenko's.

It would be a good idea to release all of the VIN #'s for the Yenko Cars, but there are no registries or clubs that have all of the numbers. We are collecting the data just like everybody else, and at this point it may be worse to release only a partial listing. Ed Cunneen and I have released a partial VIN of our incomplete VIN list of the '70 Yenko Novas. This is useful as a guide, but is not enough to derive any sort of sequence to the VIN numbers.

What I have found with many buyers of Yenko cars is that they buy on impulse, and don't make a very good effort to contact anyone that has some information. They regret this later, but only after calling somebody when they feel something is suspicious. Many potential buyers don't want to hear any bad news about some car they feel is a confidential 'find', and don't want the word to get out before they can buy it. It has happened numerous times.

Hopefully, in the future the Yenko VIN's will be published. However, at the present time, if somebody is comtemplating purchasing a Yenko, just put a deposit down to legally hold the offer open and call someone!!!

Opposing Thoughts??
Marlin R. Spotts Jr.

Re: Bogus Yenko sighting at Carlise
 

The answer to dealing with the fakes seems
fairly obvious to me. We need to get all the owners of legitimate cars registered with
the SYC club. I think the club should not ask
a fee to register the car, but charge a modest fee ie.$ 50.00 to release the inform-
ation to a prospective buyer-WITH WRITTEN
PERMISSION FROM THE SELLER. This makes the
information reliable to the buyer and creates a source of income for the club.
(not that that is the primary objective)
It would be absolutely essential that no
fakes get into the registery, as that would
ruin the registery's credibility forever.
It might require the club carry some type
of liability insurance, or at the minimum
a valid disclaimer.
One of my other cars is a 67 GTO and the
Pontiac registry charged $ 25.00 (a few years
ago) to provide info on my car, which included the build sheet.
I understand there are others out there
trying to make money off of the data they
have accumulated and that is fine. The club
can do the same thing and provide what the
public wants, but still protect the current
owners interest. It would be a large undertaking to get all of the cars registered
and an even larger one to inform the potential buyers about the registery, but I think the word would spread fast. I would
think the large auction company's and legitimate dealers, would pay the fee themselves, just to maintain their credibility in the buyers eyes.
Would something like this work? Or is it too
large and undertaking for a club like SYC?

Re: Bogus Yenko sighting at Carlise
 

Vern and others:
I agree with you about the registry.
When I bought my 69 camaro I immediately registered it with this registry and the COPO site. I provided as much info as I knew, for historical purposes, (like that the vinyl top had been removed).
Providing the info and keeping it updated can only add value to the cars.
Previously I owned a Yenko camaro replica.
I asked If I could register it with the club (as a replica of course) and they said yes.
Registering known replicas might also be a good idea.
Gary

Re: Bogus Yenko sighting at Carlise
 

Yenkofan & Vern B:

Those sound like some excellent ideas! We have a Shelby, and have dealt a little bit with the Shelby Registry, but I am not sure exactly how it (or toher registries, ie the Pontiac Regitry) works. It might be worth finding out, as they have been at for a while. Anyone else have any dealings with any other registries? How do THEY operate?

------------------
LS-6 Chevelle
(450hp, M-22, 4.10 posi,
AM/FM 8-track, red w/black stripes)

Re: Bogus Yenko sighting at Carlise
 

How would you stop "clones/fakes" from registering as "real" cars? Without someone VERY knowledgeable scrutinizing the car and all of the documentation it becomes an honor system and we all know there is a lot of misrepresentation out there. There is also the strong possibility of an honest owner registering a fake/clone believing it to be a "real" car. There have been a number of fairly knowledgeable collectors that have been duped into buying replicas that were represented as original. Unless an uncorruptable source can be found like the Pontiac Historical Society which uses the factory documents a clone/fake could be registered as a real car by both honest and dishonest owners. Ideas?

[Edited by COPO (05-09-2000 at 11:09 AM).]

Re: Bogus Yenko sighting at Carlise
 

Gentlemen; Congratulations! You have just discovered why the various clubs have not released to the public information on the Yenkos and other supercars. If someone contacts us, thay have to give us the VIN #, and, if we have a doubt about the car, we ask for trim tag #'s and other info. Right now we can take this trin tag info and compare it to other records and get a good idea if the car they are looking at is legit or not, or if they just came up with the VIN number somewhere. This is how the SAAC does it. They publish the Shelby numbers and current owner, but, if you call, they will ask you for the Ford number(which they do not release) plus they ask who the previous owner(s) was. Hopefully in the future we can put together a registry along these lines. Tom