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Re: NCRS Historical Document Services
I will check with NCRS, but pretty sure Seltzer is accounted for.
Another member has contacted me about dealer 835 in Tulsa. How sure are we that numbers were assigned alphabetically? I worked down the street from Seltzer in the summer of 71. That is where my first Z/28 started life. It had the POP in the glove box when I bought it. Pitched it in the trash, as it was no good to me. Car had been stolen and recovered. I bought it from a salvage pool, so no warranty. I knew of the car in high school. Belonged to a guy we called Cye Wheeler. Name on the pop was Cyrus Wheeler. Beast of a car with off road 140 cam and cross ram set up on it when Cyrus had it. |
Re: NCRS Historical Document Services
No info on Seltzer. They show Alan Merrell Chevrolet in Yukon, dealer number 594. Alan Merrell bought out Seltzer in the 70's. When a dealership changed hands, did the dealer number change?
Craig Ayers Chevrolet became Woody Ayers Chevrolet, and the dealer code remained the same. |
Re: NCRS Historical Document Services
I am betting it is Scott Chevrolet, which was in Downtown OKC. Richard T. Scott (R. T. Scott in some documents) and a fellow named McDonald started the business after WWI. It was originally McDonald-Scott Chevrolet. Scott bought out McDonald early on (50's). Scott died in 1975. I found the guy who bought the dealership. He is still alive and living in the same city as me.
Will be making some calls tomorrow. Scott Chevrolet is on the ncrs list as "unknown" code number, but it is in zone 23. It is definitely a different dealer than Scott's Chevrolet Inc. which is dealer #832. |
Re: NCRS Historical Document Services
Not so fast. Changing my bet.
827 is Steve Burke Chevrolet, which bought out the old Scott Chevrolet. The guy that bought and ran it when Mr. Scott died continued to use the Scott name. Makes sense that the dealer number stayed the same. Will still check it out. |
Re: NCRS Historical Document Services
Lynn,
My research shows that, for the most part, the numbers were given out alphabetically. However, it looks like if a dealer left the pool, the next to apply would just be given that vacant number. So the alphabetical thing has its anomalies but for the most part holds true. I have a list of hundreds of Okie dealers and I would think Seltzer was 835 given how they fall out alphabetically. Issue is that I show Seltzer receiving it's business license in '71. Sounds like you know it existed prior to that? Here's another oddity, I show no less than 6 "Service Chevrolet" records active with business licenses in OK at that time. |
Re: NCRS Historical Document Services
Question for you west coast folks - does the NCRS shipping report for Dana Chevrolet ever come back as "Credit Motors" with an address across the street from the new car dealership?
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Re: NCRS Historical Document Services
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: twertsy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Lynn,
My research shows that, for the most part, the numbers were given out alphabetically. However, it looks like if a dealer left the pool, the next to apply would just be given that vacant number. So the alphabetical thing has its anomalies but for the most part holds true. I have a list of hundreds of Okie dealers and I would think Seltzer was 835 given how they fall out alphabetically. Issue is that I show Seltzer receiving it's business license in '71. Sounds like you know it existed prior to that? Here's another oddity, I show no less than 6 "Service Chevrolet" records active with business licenses in OK at that time. </div></div> Seltzer ordered and sold ZL 1 #61 (VIN 642927) in 1969. I think you are correct on 835. I have a lead on some docs for a car purchased new at 835, but haven't seen the docs yet. Don't even know if the docs will reveal the dealer. Should know in a couple of weeks. |
Re: NCRS Historical Document Services
Todd:
Can you post the info you have on the OK dealerships? How many in zone 23? This is what ncrs has: http://www.ncrs.org/services/dealer-code-data.php |
Re: NCRS Historical Document Services
I get most of my data from the state business licensing websites. If you search "Chevrolet" in OK, you get this list. If you click on the record ID, it will tell you when the license was granted. It is a LOT of data. Unfortunately, you can't get a query that shows the dates on the main page (results of the prior link) so you have to click on every one individually. It doesn't provide zone/dealer# either. I put it all in a spreadsheet and sorted by date licensed/alphabetically to make assumptions on what "could" be the dealer number based on known ones from NCRS and the chevelle site. You can create your own search (like Seltzer) here. I suppose if one wanted to pay the nominal fee, you could retrieve a more comprehensive list from the state. Hope that helps!
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W/O going through all 62 pages, does this cover the El Camino?
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Todd:
I use the Sec. of State website regularly for other purposes. I think what you are seeing here: https://www.sos.ok.gov/corp/corpInfo...?id=1900242926 is the beginning of Alan Merrell purchasing the business from Seltzer. Merrell took over the business in 72, used a start up corp with the name (Seltzer) in it, with permission from the previous owner(s), and operated for a short period of time as Seltzer Chevrolet before changing the name to Alan Merrell Chevrolet. So, the info is a bit misleading. I have no idea how the business was titled before then. Could have been a sole proprietorship or a partnership, but no records with the S.O.S. The SOS doesn't license every business in Oklahoma. If you type in my name, you will see Lynn J. Bilodeau PLLC starting operation on May 15, 2009. I operated my own law office for 13 years as a sole proprietorship prior to May 2009, but nothing was registered with the sos until I formed my professional llc. <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: twertsy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I get most of my data from the state business licensing websites. If you search "Chevrolet" in OK, you get this list. If you click on the record ID, it will tell you when the license was granted. It is a LOT of data. Unfortunately, you can't get a query that shows the dates on the main page (results of the prior link) so you have to click on every one individually. It doesn't provide zone/dealer# either. I put it all in a spreadsheet and sorted by date licensed/alphabetically to make assumptions on what "could" be the dealer number based on known ones from NCRS and the chevelle site. You can create your own search (like Seltzer) here. I suppose if one wanted to pay the nominal fee, you could retrieve a more comprehensive list from the state. Hope that helps! </div></div> |
Re: NCRS Historical Document Services
Seltzer
http://archive.newsok.com/Repository...e=english-skin Not linking, but you can copy and paste. Ad from Jan 12, 1969. |
Re: NCRS Historical Document Services
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lynn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Todd:
I use the Sec. of State website regularly for other purposes. I think what you are seeing here: https://www.sos.ok.gov/corp/corpInfo...?id=1900242926 is the beginning of Alan Merrell purchasing the business from Seltzer. Merrell took over the business in 72, used a start up corp with the name (Seltzer) in it, with permission from the previous owner(s), and operated for a short period of time as Seltzer Chevrolet before changing the name to Alan Merrell Chevrolet. So, the info is a bit misleading. I have no idea how the business was titled before then. Could have been a sole proprietorship or a partnership, but no records with the S.O.S. The SOS doesn't license every business in Oklahoma. If you type in my name, you will see Lynn J. Bilodeau PLLC starting operation on May 15, 2009. I operated my own law office for 13 years as a sole proprietorship prior to May 2009, but nothing was registered with the sos until I formed my professional llc. </div></div> Yup, it only makes that list if/when you are issued a business license by the state I guess. Unfortunately, you don't get that kind of ownership/name change information save for local knowledge. I have identified several dealers correctly for people using this method though. Also, if the business name did not include "Chevrolet" it makes the search much more difficult! Thankfully, most did. |
Re: NCRS Historical Document Services
This Is my NCRS report on 1969 Camaro pace car. The dealer code comes up to Tom Naquin Chevrolet in Elkhart, Indiana but the report says Phillips Petroleum. What do you guys think? Thanks Bobhttps://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics..._pace_ncrs.png
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Tom Naquin Chevrolet in still operating in Elkhart. Might give them a call. Address and phone, 2500 W Lexington Ave, Elkhart, IN 46514, 574-584-3290
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Re: NCRS Historical Document Services
Same thing happened to me...they sent me the dealer/zone code and a dealer name that wasn't correct. Turns out the codes were apparently correct.
wilma |
Re: NCRS Historical Document Services
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 69hurstSC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">W/O going through all 62 pages, does this cover the El Camino? </div></div>
Yes its the same as Chevelle. |
Re: NCRS Historical Document Services
Anything new with getting information for cars that originally didn't have historical documents?
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I supposed it is possible that Phillips owned the dealership in Indiana.
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Thanks. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif[/img]
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Carleen</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 69hurstSC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">W/O going through all 62 pages, does this cover the El Camino? </div></div> Yes its the same as Chevelle. </div></div> |
Re: NCRS Historical Document Services
It could be that Phillips used the car in some promotional capacity. Your Pace Car could have an interesting history.
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Re: NCRS Historical Document Services
Hello all. I am fairly new to this group and have an inquiry.
I just received my NCRS papers for my 71 Z28. It gives me the zone number as 18 which is Des Moines, IA. It also states that the official production date was 05/05/1972 and the dealer code is 491. It then states "Unfortunately the GM listing does not have a name for this dealer." Does anyone know what deal ship this is or where I can get the info using this code? Thanks for any help you can offer. |
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Oops! My car was built in 1971, not 1972. Typo! Is there a way to edit the original post?
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What does "GM official production date" mean?
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Sam, if you hit the NCRS Historic Document Link at the top of this page it states that "the GM official production date" is the date the car was produced. I hope this helps.
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My 67 camaro came back GM production date 3/13/67 (Monday) and owner picked up 3/18/67 (Saturday).
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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RatZ</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sam, if you hit the NCRS Historic Document Link at the top of this page it states that "the GM official production date" is the date the car was produced. I hope this helps. </div></div>
Thanks - what I was referring to was if this was the date that the car was completed on the production line (or started)? |
Re: NCRS Historical Document Services
It was the day GM billed the dealer/floor plan for the car, the day it officially rolled off the assembly line.
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Wow, so GM billed the dealer on the car's completion day? So, I assume the Floor Plan Charges start that day as well?
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Good info Roy. Sounds like you have some inside info. Thank you.
What was the average time from start to finish to build a non-COPO Chevy, such as a Camaro, Chevelle, or Nova in 1969? |
Re: NCRS Historical Document Services
I don't think the floor plan charges started that day, not sure, but I guarantee the clock started running toward the point when they did start. In other words I think there was a 30, 60, 90 day period before floor plan charges started, giving a good dealer a chance to move inventory without interest accumulated.
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Don't have a clue, but I would suspect time on the actual line was the same for all vehicles at the given plant moving cars in and out of the line would have never been ideal or practical.
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Re: NCRS Historical Document Services
According to my NCRS info, my 69 Chevelle was built in Baltimore on 6/18/69 and according to the protectoplate, it was sold 5 days later in Ohio on 6/23/69.
That is some quick timing on these cars. Don't know if mine was special ordered or not. Phil Woj. |
Re: NCRS Historical Document Services
My car from speaking to original owner son, said that it was ordered by his dad for his mom. He does not know when ordered. But with safety in mind was ordered with PDB and headrest seats. Car was delivered to Ironton Ohio only
about 2 1/2 hours from Norwood I believe, ship date 3/13/67 pop date 3/18/67. |
Re: NCRS Historical Document Services
My 69 COPO was produced on 4/25 and sold on 5/16. The original owner did not order it, so it was purchased off the lot in Cocoa, FL. He told me when he walked in to look for an L78, he had no idea COPO's existed.
Amazing how quickly some of these cars turned over at the dealers. |
Re: NCRS Historical Document Services
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Woj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">According to my NCRS info, my 69 Chevelle was built in Baltimore on 6/18/69 and according to the protectoplate, it was sold 5 days later in Ohio on 6/23/69.
That is some quick timing on these cars. Don't know if mine was special ordered or not. Phil Woj. </div></div> Which 1969 Chevelle? Must be nice:-) (Jealous!!) |
Re: NCRS Historical Document Services
My '69 Baltimore built Chevelle was ordered by the owner on 8 March and has a Trim Tag with an "06A" and according to NCRS was built on Friday 6 June. It was delivered to the new owner one week later on 13 June in Roanoke VA.
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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ryan1969Chevelle</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Woj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">According to my NCRS info, my 69 Chevelle was built in Baltimore on 6/18/69 and according to the protectoplate, it was sold 5 days later in Ohio on 6/23/69.
That is some quick timing on these cars. Don't know if mine was special ordered or not. Phil Woj. </div></div> Which 1969 Chevelle? Must be nice:-) (Jealous!!) </div></div> That would be the COPO. Phil Woj. |
Re: NCRS Historical Document Services
FWIW....my 69 Chevelle convertible was special ordered by the original owner. Per the Body Broadcast sheet, the order was received at the Kansas City assembly plant on 11/27/68, the production date was 1/9/69, and it was delivered to the original owner at the selling dealer in Yorkville IL on 1/17/69.
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Re: NCRS Historical Document Services
Just got the report back on my Z. We thought it was a local car, but no. Lustine Chevy in Hyattsville Md. code 335 zone 14. Production date of 7-7-69.
Anyone ever hear of Lustine? |
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