Re: russo and steel chop job camaro copo
 

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real-muscle-1, Post pictures of the terrible job on the hidden VINs, we would like to determine if in fact it is a rebody

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So far there is suspicion of a rebody, but no hard facts or pictures.
If a Z28 was used where is the 4spd cutout? Apparently this COPO has no trace of one which is interesting.

Re: russo and steel chop job camaro copo
 

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<font color="red"> He sold it to Pat Joiner and told him of the suspected rebody and priced it under 100K to reflect the rebody issue. Joiner then sold it to Corvette Mike's but apparently they say they were not told about the rebody issue </font>

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wow.
i think pat joiner still posts here now and then.
maybe he can set the record straight. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif

Re: russo and steel chop job camaro copo
 

i personaly cannot picture pat doing something like that.
in the car dealer business your reputation is everything.
to risk it all on something stupid like that just doesnt make sense.

Re: russo and steel chop job camaro copo
 

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1) I am not a lawyer but the way I interpreted the statute is that VIN tampering is only illegal if it is done to conceal a previous crime (Theft).

2) I also see that it could be very difficult to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that a VIN was swapped and not just removed and re-installed... If the restorer... errr BUTCHER cited the Repair / restoration exemption and said that the firewall, dash, etc was damaged beyond repair and in order to fix it a section had to be cut from another car and welded in then the VIN had to re-installed in the Replaced section.

3) Now to take a different road to the same destination...
What if the car was clipped through the door posts and across the floor board and welded into another body.(basically using the bare minimum of the car with the VIN's)? Would this be considered VIN swapping or would it be considered a "repair"?
Half and Half piece togethers used to be common place in the 70's...

4) NOW 1 more...
Would decking an old VIN off and stamping a different VIN back on an Engine or Transmission fall under this? It appears as though it would if using your explanation of the law, because any obliteration or alteration of any VIN would be illegal whether someone was the legal owner of the part/ car etc.

Am I correct with this reasoning?

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1) Lawyer? I am one (allegedly) and it doesn't matter what reason you do the VIN tampering for. It is something of an automatic pass/fail statute: if you do any of the above listed things, you committed the crime regardless of your reason (other than the listed exceptions, of course) The only intent required is the intent to physically alter the VIN, nothing more. In other words, you knew that you were cutting out that VIN and you didn't do it while sleepwalking or during an epileptic seizure.

2) The experts that are used by law enforcement are many times NICB automotive insurance fraud agents who are most often, retired car guys who know exactly what to look for. I've met a few and they know their sh$t.

3) Very slippery slope here. But your scenario would probably be seen as legal and not a VIN swap if the majority of the original car's chassis/body remained and just the rusted areas were replaced.

4) A legitimate decking process by an engine repair facility that grinds off the VIN as a byproduct of the machining process is not seen as VIN tampering. Stamping VINs on engines (like vintage Corvette "Restoration Engines") are something of an untested area. That is more for the civil liability arena (suing for $$$ damages if you're defrauded) than the criminal arena, since cars are traditionally register by chassis VIN and not engine VINs.

My legal fees for this session are $25. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/naughty.gif You can pay by joining this website. Operators are standing by, Master Card and Visa Accepted...makes a great Christmas Gift!

Re: russo and steel chop job camaro copo
 

Well I'm just more then a little confused? If you look at this site for Canada:

http://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/news-no...doc_31632.html

Now go down to the "Existing Laws" and this is what is says:
"There is currently no offence in the Criminal Code directly prohibiting the alteration, obliteration or removal of a vehicle identification number"

So it seems in Canada, you can "legally" do this. This is what they are looking at changing it too:

"To address this gap in the Criminal Code, the amendment introduced today would make it an offence to wholly or partially, alter, obliterate or remove a vehicle identification number on a motor vehicle without lawful excuse and under circumstances that give rise to a reasonable inference that this was done to conceal the identity of the motor vehicle."

So, as long as your not trying to conceal the identity of the motor vehicle, even the new law is looking like you will still be able to remove a tag and place it on another shell???

Re: russo and steel chop job camaro copo
 

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...emlins/eek.gifRemoving the tag from one car and placing it on another is actually concealing the true identity of BOTH cars !@! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/rolleyes.gif

Re: russo and steel chop job camaro copo
 

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/haha.gif {maybe he can set the record straight} Set who's record straight ??? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/confused.gif

Re: russo and steel chop job camaro copo
 

I received a pm from Pat Joiner he stated that my statement " but apparently they say they were not told about the rebody issue" is incorrect. My apology to Pat if that is the case.

I wish everyone involved would just chime in on the thread so everyone's cards are on the table. How many times will this car be the subject of one of these threads ?

Re: russo and steel chop job camaro copo
 

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We knew this car would resurface with a clean story !!!!!

[/ QUOTE ] More reason why Im sure anyone who sells a car as a rebody would have the prescence of mind to have the buyer sign a statement acknowledging he is buying a rebodied car. Personally if i thought i "may" have a rebodied car, id probably want to upgrade that assesment to "certainly" have a rebody before i have a fire sale,no ??

Re: russo and steel chop job camaro copo
 

...would the previous selling prices help indicate who knew what when?...