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Re: RogerD's 1969 Dick Harrell Chevelle
Seriously Roger. Put your pictures back up and keep having fun with the car and the wonderful woman who has been by your side since day one. Drive the hell out of the thing and if it gets a nick or scratch who gives a $hit. The last bleepin thing I would ever be thinking about is what those pack of wolves thought about any of my personal business. Let them sit and stew in their own hate and misery while you have a blast with your car and continue to meet and have fun with REAL people and not invisible goofs on the Internet.
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Re: RogerD's 1969 Dick Harrell Chevelle
I generally try to avoid these arguments, but I have a few questions and observations here. First, I noticed that an observation was made on TC regarding the fact that Roger had no contact with DHPC, and that when warranty work was required, the car was returned to Bill Allen, and that this was somehow proof that the car carries no Dick Harrell connection. The logic of this statement seems faulty. Roger purchased the car from Bill Allen, why would he not have returned there for warranty work? It would seem that the onus would fall on Bill Allen to handle any coordination with Harrell on warranty work, not the customer. Had I owned the car, returned for warranty work to Bill Allen, and been told "Sorry, go see Dick Harrell" I would have proceeded to raise hell right there in the showroom. This seems like weak evidence on the part of those claiming that the car carries no connection to Dick's operation. How were warranty claims on cars sold in California, for example, handled(I believe Harrell's dealer network extended that far)? Surely these owners weren't told to have their new cars towed 1500 miles to Harrell's shop to satisfy said claims.
Next, a point of pride more than anything else. Someone on TC made the claim that the car was sold with a Harrell invoice to fluff it up for a market that didn't know what a COPO was. This is complete and utter bull@!*$. I'm no expert on Chevy supercars, but I am fairly knowledgeable regarding the musclecar scene in the Kansas/Nebraska/western Missouri area. People here were well aware of the COPO process. Mac's in Crete, NE and VanT in Topeka were both well known movers of COPOs at that time. I also have reliable information of more than half a dozen dealers selling one or more COPO Camaros/Chevelles in the northeast Kansas area alone. I'd bet that KS/NE/MO was second only to the Ohio/Pennsylvania/New Jersey area in terms of total COPO sales. A distant second, sure, but to claim that people here were unaware of then is simply incorrect. A minor point, but the idea that Bill Allen was somehow forced to add Harrell badges and paper to move the car seems ludicrous to me. Next a general observation. It seems that there are people who now wish to discount the paperwork and the original owner's statements. Fine. But it seems as though these are some of the same people who in the past have venerated paperwork and owner history as the only true measure of a car's worth. It has been intimated, in fact, that an in-person review of a car itself is virtually worthless <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">without the accompanying paper and owner statements.</span></span> So which is it? Is the paperwork not enough in this case? If so, why? Are there not other examples of COPO Chevrolets delivered through Bill Allen and modified at Harrell's shop that are deemed legit? Even if the modification was something as simple as re-jetting the carb and modifying the distributor, that indicates something beyond the ordinary, doesn't it? What's the threshold for necessary modifications to be considered a true Harrell car? I believe that even non-converted Yenko Novas are still considered Yenko Novas so long as YSC paperwork exists. There's more, but that's enough typing for now. Roger, it's a fantastic car and a story, and I've enjoyed following along. The recent turn of events is unfortunate, but as you said, you know what you have and what the paperwork shows. I know what I believe to be the case in this situation, and I'll tell anyone who asks that you have a legitimate Supercar. |
Re: RogerD's 1969 Dick Harrell Chevelle
----Everybody here has good points that will stand the test of time. One other thing that I could add would be that I wouldnt tow my car across the street for the Harrell group to look at. I can only imagine how I would feel if I towed the car any distance and a tow strap broke or a coyote ran in front of my truck or any other of the million things that could happen just to try to get verification of what I already knew to be true. In a word it isnt worth it, Roger!!! You know what you have, and theres nothing the Harrell group can really add. I get the distinct feeling that you would tow the car to thier location just to recieve a rejection anyway.......Bill S
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Re: RogerD's 1969 Dick Harrell Chevelle
As far as warranty work back then, you could take your car to whatever GM dealer you wanted. Back in '68 I had a Ram Air I Firebird. When brand new at London Motor Products, London, Ontario, the engine was balanced and blueprinted. The heads were cut to minimum CCs. The Royal Pontiac Bobcat kit was added along with polylok nuts, and headers. The rear rims were widened to 8" and the biggest MTs available were added. The Pontiac dealers in Oshawa and Peterborough, Ontario did warranty work with no questions asked. I would imagine that the same GM rules would have applied to Roger's car. Our COPO car had headers and fat tires, Hurst shifter, yet warranty work was never a problem. Roger, stick your ground. You have hidden nothing. You have the paperwork to back up what you say and what others think is irrelevant. I have not once seen where you claimed anything more than what the paperwork shows. Enjoy the car and ignore them. Party poopers.
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Re: RogerD's 1969 Dick Harrell Chevelle
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I get the distinct feeling that you would tow the car to thier location just to recieve a rejection anyway....... </div></div>
Bill, the smart guy that you are, I get that feeling about Roger as well. I know I sounded like a jerk, but that's why I made that comment about Roger being from the sticks of MO. He just doesn't seem to get what he's got there, and for the life of me I can't figure out why he gives a $hit what those people think of it. |
Re: RogerD's 1969 Dick Harrell Chevelle
I too would just move on. The car is what it is and the paperwork is what it is. No one can change that nor take it away. Personally I love the car. My buddy also had a new orange COPO Chevelle in '69. Roger's is definitely striking and will hold its own in ANY show.
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Re: RogerD's 1969 Dick Harrell Chevelle
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hvychev</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I get the distinct feeling that you would tow the car to thier location just to recieve a rejection anyway....... </div></div>
Bill, the smart guy that you are, I get that feeling about Roger as well. I know I sounded like a jerk, but that's why I made that comment about Roger being from the sticks of MO. He just doesn't seem to get what he's got there, and for the life of me I can't figure out why he gives a $hit what those people think of it. </div></div> Frank, Nice reality check of the situation. It is quite refreshing. I know Roger and he has always wanted to do things right regarding the car, its restoration and history. Unfortunately not all the parties involved have been on board. It doesn't matter. He has all he needs to enjoy this beautiful piece of automotive history. Regards Phil Woj |
Re: RogerD's 1969 Dick Harrell Chevelle
Please keep the discussion on this site civil.
My two cents is if I were the Harrell's I would not bluntly say it is not a Harrell car. They might think it isn't but Roger apparently has a Harrell document saying it is. Regardless of the inconsistencies, how do you prove he doesn't have a real document ? I don't see Joel Rosen saying "You don't have a Motion car". What he usually says is more like "I don't believe you do" or " Without further proof I can't document your car". That way Joel isn't liable for discrediting and possibly devaluing a real car if it turns out he is wrong. I could see where the dealer might stick a Harrell Sticker on it to possibly help it sell and have a agreement with Dick. Nothing was set in stone back then. The Harrell group is not allowed on this site so a better place to continue the discussion is probably the Chevelle site. |
Re: RogerD's 1969 Dick Harrell Chevelle
Interesting discussion….I was just talking to a friend yesterday and complaining about all the DH clones I see popping up at car shows. Jeeze!! They now outnumber the Yenko clones 100 to 1.. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/rolleyes.gif[/img]
Seriously? At this point in time, who in their right mind would clone a DH car? They have taken the piss out of the hobby so bad that that people with “real” cars go thru a load of crap just to own them. Time to lighten up. The world is a much better place when you realize this is just a hobby for most. A part of life that takes us away from the corporate BS that most of us deal with on a daily basis. This is the kind of stuff that drives people away from the hobby….Ever wonder why people with some truly incredible cars rarely bring them out?????? It’s so they don’t get kicked in the balls over something that they had no control over 40 years ago. Enjoy your Chevelle! [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif[/img] BIG |
Re: RogerD's 1969 Dick Harrell Chevelle
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 68l30</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Interesting discussion….I was just talking to a friend yesterday and complaining about all the DH clones I see popping up at car shows. Jeeze!! They now outnumber the Yenko clones 100 to 1.. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/rolleyes.gif[/img]
Seriously? At this point in time, who in their right mind would clone a DH car? They have taken the piss out of the hobby so bad that that people with “real” cars go thru a load of crap just to own them. Time to lighten up. The world is a much better place when you realize this is just a hobby for most. A part of life that takes us away from the corporate BS that most of us deal with on a daily basis. This is the kind of stuff that drives people away from the hobby….Ever wonder why people with some truly incredible cars rarely bring them out?????? It’s so they don’t get kicked in the balls over something that they had no control over 40 years ago. Enjoy your Chevelle! [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif[/img] BIG </div></div> [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/worship.gif[/img] |
Re: RogerD's 1969 Dick Harrell Chevelle
I could see where the dealer might stick a Harrell Sticker on it to possibly help it sell and have a agreement with Dick. Nothing was set in stone back then.
So possibly something like a Douglass Yenko scenerio? |
Re: RogerD's 1969 Dick Harrell Chevelle
Keep in mind this car is more than a factory delivered Copo car w/ stripes added, it's a 9562 Copo Chevelle w/ Harrell mods!
See Roger's old note below, surely some far more technical stuff included than what would've been done at Allen Chevy! [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif[/img] ~ Pete <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RogerD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...my car started out in life at the KAN (Leeds) plant as a COPO, was delivered to DHPC some time after the 3rd week of July, 1969 where DHPC did it's magic. DHPC removed the AIR equipment, plugged the AIR holes in the exhaust manifolds, degreed the harmonic balancer, removed one of the two distributor weights, timed it at 38 deg/3,000 RPM, valved the turbo trans with 3,000 rpm stall speed and 7,000 rpm shift points, installed a Sun tach on the steering column, via stainless steel hose clamp, installed hood locks, installed the large V8 emblems on the sides, applied the DHPC emblem to the deck lid, generated the "Dealer to Whom Delivered - Bill Allen Chevrolet "Window Sticker" that I still have (40 years later). Then, it was delivered to Bill Allen Chevrolet (perhaps the 2nd week or into the 3rd week of August) to be sold, I drove by Tuesday, Aug 19th, 1969 on my way to work (Whitaker Cable - about 3 or 4 blocks down the steet from Bill Allen Chevrolet) and bought it (BRAND NEW) - not sure if the black hood stripes were applied at DHPC or at Bill Allen Chevrolet...</div></div> |
Re: RogerD's 1969 Dick Harrell Chevelle
Seems if DHPC had a network of dealers selling his modified cars, it would be wise to have trained at least one of the techs there. Those performance tuning schools where pretty popular in the late 1960 and 1970's.
There were a lot of good techs at the dealer back then. A time when there was no scan tool to tell you what was wrong. A real shame in this all. I can see why the pool of people wanting to own a DH car these days is very limited. |
Re: RogerD's 1969 Dick Harrell Chevelle
Which I will say again is a real tragedy. There are two sides to every story and many reasons for parties to do what they do and protect their interests for which I cannot sometimes blame especially with so many clones being made today. Because of this it has divided the hobby to a large degree. That in itself is life as there will always be two people that will never agree. What is such a shame though is when the car is the one to suffer. The Harrell cars as well as other types did nothing wrong to deserve the negative attention and I think it is really sad that just because one owns a Harrell, Gibb, Yenko, etc, made car and some people don't get along that the car is the one that takes the blame and suffers for it and in many cases is shunned from some shows or discussions. They are all great cars as well as having great history and started by great men. The fact that some people cannot get along today should not give the cars gets a bad name. Unfortunately, that is not the case.
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Re: RogerD's 1969 Dick Harrell Chevelle
I couldn't have said it better myself Rick.
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Re: RogerD's 1969 Dick Harrell Chevelle
Good job in a cool way
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Re: RogerD's 1969 Dick Harrell Chevelle
I don't have a dog in this fight, but just can't keep my mouth shut.
What this boils down to is the definition(S) of a DHPC Car. Is this a conversion car? Based on what has been presented probably not. Does it have something/anything to do with DHPC? Probably,IMHO. Is it a bad a$$, cool Super Car? Most definately! I remember not long ago that I was trying to purchase a very special Camaro wherein the original owner stated and certified via an affidavit that it was a true DHPC converted car. (The original owner!) The story behind the car was aweswome. The people who hold themselves out to be the authenticators and certifiers of such cars said the story and car were bogus. Guess what.......they were completely wrong. It wasn't the first time and certainly wasn't the last! Roger it's your car. Call it what you want and let's go out and have some fun. |
Re: RogerD's 1969 Dick Harrell Chevelle
I think the fact this is a Kansas City Leeds assembled COPO Chevelle,is incredibly significant.
Quite possibly the only one assembled there,or last one standing today & trumps it's DH provenance. |
Re: RogerD's 1969 Dick Harrell Chevelle
what a sad turn of events for such a heart warming story (and car).
Like all the others have said, you know what it is, you bought it new ... The jealousy that exists from the sidelines is nauseating ... they got paid in 1969 and now what? They want someone to pay again? For what? It all boils down to the green monster ... |
Re: RogerD's 1969 Dick Harrell Chevelle
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mr70</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think the fact this is a Kansas City Leeds assembled COPO Chevelle,is incredibly significant.
Quite possibly the only one assembled there,or last one standing today & trumps it's DH provenance. </div></div> Very well said Rick... [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif[/img] |
Re: RogerD's 1969 Dick Harrell Chevelle
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: al8apex</div><div class="ubbcode-body">what a sad turn of events for such a heart warming story (and car).
Like all the others have said, you know what it is, you bought it new ... The jealousy that exists from the sidelines is nauseating ... they got paid in 1969 and now what? They want someone to pay again? For what? It all boils down to the green monster ... </div></div> yup, X2! |
Re: RogerD's 1969 Dick Harrell Chevelle
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mr70</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think the fact this is a Kansas City Leeds assembled COPO Chevelle,is incredibly significant. Quite possibly the only one assembled there,or last one standing today & trumps it's DH provenance. </div></div>
Rare indeed, but there are a couple others out there...specifically, a Daytona Yellow automatic car. |
Re: RogerD's 1969 Dick Harrell Chevelle
Just got my Chevelle magazine w/ Roger D on the cover!!!! [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/headbang.gif[/img]
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Re: RogerD's 1969 Dick Harrell Chevelle
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Karen and I are honored indeed!
Just doesn't get any better . . . :beers: |
Re: RogerD's 1969 Dick Harrell Chevelle
Ooooo yes It does GF.....You have to look in the right place....
Glenn |
Re: RogerD's 1969 Dick Harrell Chevelle
Rogers Chevelle gets the Super Chevy cover in the mailbox Today!!
Congrats!!!! [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif[/img] |
Re: RogerD's 1969 Dick Harrell Chevelle
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THANKS!!! :beers:
October 2012 Super Chevy Magazine Table Of Contents On the Cover: Stacey Warren's show-winning, 9-second street Nova was captured with the wheels in the air by Patrick Hill, while Roger Day's COPO Chevelle was shot by Stephen Kim. Editor Campisano was the man behind the lens photographing Poppa Hyde's Monte Aerocoupe. |
Re: RogerD's 1969 Dick Harrell Chevelle
NICE!!!
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Re: RogerD's 1969 Dick Harrell Chevelle
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Like I said before . . .
Karen and I are honored indeed! Just getting better . . . :beers: |
Re: RogerD's 1969 Dick Harrell Chevelle
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RogerD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hi Gang:
Just an FYI . . . I've pulled all of my pictures until (in time perhaps) I can scrub the trademarked name that is owned by Valerie Harrell . . . Doesn't change the facts and doesn't change my story in the least - it's 100% true . . . [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/flag.gif[/img] Kind regards - RogerD <>< </div></div> sorry, a little late to this sad turn of events. (it does explain the deletion of other DH related threads) [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/bs.gif[/img] <span style="font-size: 20pt">this is beyond insane greed. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/frown.gif[/img] </span> |
Re: RogerD's 1969 Dick Harrell Chevelle
Unless I am missing something, it looks like Roger put back all of the photos in this thread. I only checked the first ten pages or so. Good for you Roger. You made the RIGHT decision and it's good to know you are back to enjoying your car. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/flag.gif[/img]
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Re: RogerD's 1969 Dick Harrell Chevelle
Quote:
If you missed the Oct SuperChevy mag & want to check it out, Super Chevy October 2012 . . . |
Re: RogerD's 1969 Dick Harrell Chevelle
Just read through this entire thread. Great story, and very fortunate to have found that car at all, never mine in any shape. Sad to see some of those people acting in the manour that they have (so much for being an original owner with paperwork, Huh?). I could see some uproar if you were trying to sell the car, but from all indications you come across as never parting ways with it again. You know what you know about it, and it's nice to see someone with such a passion for a car that has nothing to do with money. Thanks for sharing.
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Re: RogerD's 1969 Dick Harrell Chevelle
Hi Gang:
A bunch of nice Chevelles in the SuperChevy/Amsoil "Best of the Best" finals . . . |
Re: RogerD's 1969 Dick Harrell Chevelle
Man thats a tough crowd [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif[/img]
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Re: RogerD's 1969 Dick Harrell Chevelle
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Alss</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Man thats a tough crowd [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif[/img] </div></div>
X2 [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/3gears.gif[/img] |
Re: RogerD's 1969 Dick Harrell Chevelle
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mr70</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think the fact this is a Kansas City Leeds assembled COPO Chevelle,is incredibly significant.
Quite possibly the only one assembled there,or last one standing today & trumps it's DH provenance. </div></div> A few years back I had a L72 for a 69 COPO Chevelle from the Kansas Plant. Everyone thought it was a fake until Roger's car surfaced. Jerry inspected the stamps and certified them as real. There were at least two. Both automatics. It would have been nice for that motor to have made it into Rogers car. BTW- I have met Roger at several shows to include MCACN, he and his wife are great people. Congrats on the ink Roger, you deserve it. You should write a book on this story! Someone in Seattle bought the motor from me. Vin 19K465533 http://www.69lm1.com/427mp/mpstamp.jpg http://www.69lm1.com/427mp/mpvin.jpg RichPern |
Re: RogerD's 1969 Dick Harrell Chevelle
AMSOIL 2012 Best of the Best:beers:
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Re: RogerD's 1969 Dick Harrell Chevelle
Merry Christmas. . . :)
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Re: RogerD's 1969 Dick Harrell Chevelle
And to all, good night :)
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