Re: 1970 gto judge ram air IV
 

And my point was not to compare the Judges to the SD's, rather the lack of acceptance of the Judges to the SD's. Yes the SD's have more notes on the build sheets, but I firmly believe the right research may turn up documentation on the Judges.

PS add to my dream car list one Black Widow.

Re: 1970 gto judge ram air IV
 

Not exactly. I think it was like 2 0r 3 grand more than you could buy a vette for. I was not able to buy a new car back then. I had just paid $8,500 for my first house (880 sf) and this car cost almost as much at it did. Wish I had paid more attention back then. You have to remember that the DX SCCA cars were in Tulsa quite a bit. They were neat to go look at too. Tulsa was a hot bed of muscle car acitivity back then.

Re: 1970 gto judge ram air IV
 

Sixties M,
With you owning some rare vintage Pontiac examples you have probably studied the Poncho's more then most here, what do you think about this particular car in question, out the factory door new with the IV or V engine? How could it have been installed and distributed off GM property when the engine wasnt cleared under Federal emission standards? Would not the build sheet refer to the V engine with more then just "Memo"? Without actual documentation as to the engine being installed arent we all chasing our tail in a round room having no way to prove or disprove the build? This has turned into a very long yet informative thread, without factual evidence can this really be determined? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif[/img]
Thanks,
Motown [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif[/img]

Re: 1970 gto judge ram air IV
 

Isnt it funny that pontiac kept all the records of all the VINS of their super duty cars, but have NO RECORD of any RA V"S MMMMMMMMMMM [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif[/img] Let it go! Its getting old.

Re: 1970 gto judge ram air IV
 

don, why dont you reply to the question about what cool gto's you have and if i remember right, you stated you had invoices with memo and special equipment on them and steved asked you to post them and you didnt. actually i think most people are enjoying this and it does raise alot of questions. why wouldnt they have put a ra 5 in a car did they build the engine and leave it on a stand only??? i hardly think so. remember these were delivered to him to drag race and maybe werent intended to sell to the public. how many experimental cars are out in the public and werent supposed to ever be sold. anyone who was around back in the 60's and early 70's and followed drag racing knew all about knafel's lethal pontiacs and knew that pontiac motor divisions engineering dept were behind him on anything he wanted. why is it that nobody wants mr knafel to have any acknowledgment on his accomplishments and working relationship with pontiac???? i guess i would suggest to you don that if you dont like it go to another chat topic and leave this one.

Re: 1970 gto judge ram air IV
 

Mr.Muscle,

-----You appear to have 6 posts here and virtually no info about yourself either.At least Don has told us his name.I dont think that Im speaking out of turn here when I say that both you and Don are welcomed here by all of us.Im not throwing stones at you or Don,but maybe you should take this private if you have some sort of beef with him!.......Bill S

Re: 1970 gto judge ram air IV
 

i have no beef with him at all. it just seems like he continues to try to get this discussion stopped and i know by the number of hits on this that people are enjoying it.

Re: 1970 gto judge ram air IV
 

M&M, I don't pretend to know more than anyone about Pontiacs. I just like them. I respect everyone's opinion on this RA V question, and, I have the utmost respect for Jim M., and, his records. Being old enough [by a long shot] to have been around back then, I still maintain the "never say never" stance. Now, I don't believe a car with a RA V would have been built "on the line", and delivered via normal procedures. Could a car have been sent to a special area, and, a "special" engine or equipment installed? I wouldn't rule it out. If it DID happen, I know there is a dispute over whether this would constitute a "conversion" car, or, a car delivered from the factory.
As far as regulations, if the car was not being sold to the public, but, was a special promo pool car or something, wouldn't that avoid compliance issues?
I do agree that we won't solve this puzzle in this discussion, but, it's been fun trying.

Re: 1970 gto judge ram air IV
 

i agree with you sixtiesmuscle. i never thought anyone would think this was about a car delivered down the line with a ra 5, but instead a car pulled and sent to engineering and the ra 4 pulled and a ra 5 stuck in it. just like steved said about pete mccartheys book showing this very fact happening to the sd tempests and other 62 and 63 cars with sd engines. you can see the pics of the tempest cars with some of them still wearing their 326 badges. i apologize to don if he thought i was trying to make an issue with him. i would just like to see more of the phs sheets with the special equipment memos on them. maybe that would help in finding a common item among them. so far we have only seen two cars and both of them were referred to by bill knafel back around 5 years ago and so far the evidence is documenting exactly what mr knafel said. i also dont understand why mr knafel doesnt get anymore credibility than he does. anyone know why?

Re: 1970 gto judge ram air IV
 

Does this possible RA V car have a partial VIN stamped into the block from the factory? What engine code is on the block? It seems unlikely that any GM paperwork will reveal if it is a RA V factory conversion. It would be cool if it was a real RA V car, but no reason to get upset over the discussion.