Re: Judges
 

The 1970 Ratings were gross hp ratings with the engine on a dyno. The 1971 Ratings were changed to net hp ratings. That is at the rear wheels with accessories on. All of todays cars are still rated at net SAE. I feel the 71 455 HO was underated due to increasing insurance costs at the time. 1970 to some but definitely 1971 was the end of the Musclecar era. The 70 455 was transplanted from the big car line and dropped into the GTO. More than likely a decision by Pontiac so that when being compared to other car lines like the 440 Mopars and 454 Chevy's Pontiac could say "Me Too" in regards to a big displacment motor.

Re: Judges
 

The 70 455 motor is big but from what I've seen in quarter mile times the 455 was alot slower than the 400 RAlll&lV.I know that theres gearing involved but with alot more torque with the 455 it should be doing better I think I saw a time of 15.0 at 97mph in the quarter mile.

Re: Judges
 

The '70 had a 10-1 CR and the '71 had a 8.4-1. Both were gross rated. 360 & 335. '71 also had a net rating of 310.

In '70 same engine as in GP had 370 rating. Just a different body.

My insurance agent still nicked me for a 50% surcharge because the engine was rated at 300 hp or more. I just didn't have to pay based on GTO rates just T-37 on the basic rate.

Re: Judges
 

I dont know if I've asked this question or not but with the new GTO out in the market again,do you think the Judge option will be available?

Re: Judges
 

Thanks for the information on the 455's I appreciate it.Sorry that I have'nt reply I've been out.

Re: Judges
 

I just read on the PY site that Milt Robson's Triple Black 69 RAIV Conv is all but done ...anyone have any details/ pictures?

Re: Judges
 

Here is a link over to the PY site with a few pics of Milts Judge Conv. 69 RAIV Triple Black Conv

Re: Judges
 

Who has the biggest Judge collection in the country?

Re: Judges
 

The Supreme Court.

Re: Judges
 

Let me put it this way...Who has the biggest GTO Judge collection?

Re: Judges
 

I believe that there is a guy in OK that has a very large collection of Judges.
I don't think that he wants to be recognized though.

Re: Judges
 

I can respect that I dont think I would be advertise myself either.Probably would be having every tom dick and harry visiting my place.

Re: Judges
 

I don't think net hp ratings are at the rear wheels. I think it is at the flywheel with all accesories like alt, ps,and ac running.

Re: Judges
 

You thunk right....

Re: Judges
 

Is there any particular Judge out there that has a very unique color combination or a unheard of option?

Re: Judges
 

That triple GREEN '69 covertible advertised during the last year comes to mind......

Re: Judges
 

Triple Green WOW thats very unique.Lets hear more about these unusal cars keep them coming.

Re: Judges
 

Had to go back and look at my original post, Sorry my bad, must have been replying while https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif boozing. I don’t know why I was thinking rear wheel horsepower. Here are the definitions as I understand them. As a general rule, rear-wheel horsepower on a manual-transmission car is about 15% less than SAE net, and rear-wheel horsepower on an automatic-transmission car is about 20% less than SAE net.



SAE Gross Horsepower
This is the old process that manufacturers used as a guide for rating their cars. It was in place until 1971. SAE gross also measures horsepower at the flywheel, but with no accessories to bog it down. This is the bare engine with nothing but the essentials attached to it; little more than a carb, fuel pump, oil pump, and water pump. It is impossible to provide a mathematical calculation between SAE net and SAE gross. As a general rule, however, SAE net tends to be approximately 80% of the value of SAE gross. SAE J245 and J1995 define this measurement.

SAE Net Horspower
In 1971, manufacturers phased in SAE net horsepower. This rating is measured at the flywheel, on an engine dyno, but the engine is tested with all accessories installed, including a full exhaust system, all pumps, the alternator, the starter, and emissions controls. Both SAE net and SAE gross horsepower test procedures are documented in Society of Automotive Engineers standard J1349.

Re: Judges
 

Could you get a Orbit Orange 71 Judge?I have a book that says you could.Plus I've seen pictures of one.I realize that you can paint a car any color you want but I thought Orbit Orange was a 70 color only.

Re: Judges
 

Are Judge prices ever going to drop?I realize that these are speacial cars but DAMN.The Judge is my dream car and I cant afford one I probably never will be able to afford one.

Re: Judges
 

[ QUOTE ]
Are Judge prices ever going to drop?I realize that these are speacial cars but DAMN.The Judge is my dream car and I cant afford one I probably never will be able to afford one.

[/ QUOTE ]

You sure got that right. So many of the cars are priced so high the people in it for just the joy of collecting are being squeezed out. This is a trend I dont see ending anytime soon. If you happen to be very wealthy its a great place to park your money. Exclude me on that score.

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif

Re: Judges
 

You would have to sell your house just to buy one,you better own a RV before you do that though.LOL

Re: Judges
 

Unless you buy one of those rare Yenko Winnibagos!!!

Re: Judges
 

Yenko Winnibago how about a Royal Winnibago.Either way I slice it I'll have to settle with a plain GTO.I can live with that.

Re: Judges
 

[ QUOTE ]
Could you get a Orbit Orange 71 Judge?I have a book that says you could.Plus I've seen pictures of one.I realize that you can paint a car any color you want but I thought Orbit Orange was a 70 color only.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've seen a '71 In Scottsdale in that color, but I believe it was not available in 1971.

Re: Judges
 

Thats what I thought because I have'nt seen any code listing for orbit orange for the 71 Judge or GTO.Thanks alot.

Re: Judges
 

No orbits in 71 https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/confused.gif

Let me see what I can come up with, we need some trouble in here. Things have been way to quite.

Re: Judges
 

Ha steved looking forward to your reply.Its been pretty dead in the Judge forum but its had its fair share of views and replys.

Re: Judges
 

Thats because Pontiacs are slow and ugly.

Re: Judges
 

I finally broke down and got cable, now I get to spend all my time watching OCC and Overhaulin. American Hot Rod ain't so bad.

What's the big deal about orbit orange Judges anyway? I thought it was just another color. How would Belair know orbit from purple, he's color blind. No wonder he thinks their ugly, they all look the same to him.

Re: Judges
 

I notice you didn't argue about the "slow" part ! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/Charley.gif

Re: Judges
 

I just figured you never started and drove yours?

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/burnout.gif

Re: Judges
 

There is nothing more beautiful than an Orbit Orange Judge.

..except for the avatar below....
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/naughty.gif

Re: Judges
 

Bolt on's https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...iggthumpup.gif

Re: Judges
 

Oooo!..That reminds me.
I've got to pick up Milk on the way home..

Re: Judges
 

[ QUOTE ]
There is nothing more beautiful than an Orbit Orange Judge.

..except for the avatar below....
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/naughty.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...emlins/eek.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...emlins/eek.gif Dont get many of those to the pound https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/naughty.gif

Re: Judges
 

Belair62:The 1969-71 Judges are the best looking muscle cars on the street.Now thats my opinion but there are people that will disagree.As far as being slow GTO's/Judges are'nt slow and there not the fastest either.

Re: Judges
 

[ QUOTE ]
As far as being slow GTO's/Judges are'nt slow and there not the fastest either.

[/ QUOTE ]
There halffast https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/hmmm.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/naughty.gif

Re: Judges
 

There were quite afew muscle cars that were faster than the GTO/Judges.I read some were that from 1964 to 1970 the GTO gain 1,000lbs.And I know that the 1969-71 GTO/Judges were plump 3,800-4,000lbs.Considering that the top motor for the 69-70 Judge was a 400RA lV it did pretty well up agaist the bigger big blocks.

Re: Judges
 

I have to admit...they are very good looking in Orbit...even if they are slugs...even that crappy RA IV is kind of weak.....( I love getting you die hard Poncho guys going). Why don't one of you guys bring a RA IV to the Reunion and lets see what it does...