Re: Next Years Power Tour Car
 

A while back you weighed in on this Charley. It was then I realized, your recommendation comes from the wisdom of experiencing nearly every form of popular high hp mills (probably some more exotic ones too) in applications chasing the perfect balance of road and track performance. I will conceed the LS motors offer more reliability and performance than anything I could hope to create.

If only my ego could accept them. I see them everywhere. Every magazine, under the hood of my wife's Yukon, and all over popular forums and the summer cruise nights and at the drags. I just don't want one. They are visually unappealing and usually employ plastic covers to help offset that fact, and plastic covers in the engine bay of 1960's cars look out of place to me. I appreciate the mills done in more traditional ways and seek them out where ever I can.

I don't begrudge those who use them. Maybe one day I'll come around. If I do, it will be from the influence of guys like Ken and Charley.

Re: Next Years Power Tour Car
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Charley Lillard</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...We like headache free driving and I have done the big block thing to death.No comparison from a guy that has done both.Drive a big hp LS engine for a month and try to go back to a big block. </div></div>

We should all thank Charley &amp; Ken for offering us a chance to drive their LS cars for a month.

Re: Next Years Power Tour Car
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Charley Lillard</div><div class="ubbcode-body">LOL....You think the use of LS engines is because of the lack of available big block parts ? This weekend the Wife and I will start driving my 953 hp pump gas LS engined Camaro from Denver to Kentucky via Oklahoma with the AC on and doing it on pump gas. That is why we use the &quot;Loose Stool&quot; engines. Kwhizz will be yanking the aluminum headed big block out of this Nomad and doing something similar to what I have but less hp. We like headache free driving and I have done the big block thing to death. No comparison from a guy that has done both. Drive a big hp LS engine for a month and try to go back to a big block. </div></div>


Yep!!!!...............

Re: Next Years Power Tour Car
 

I'd love to do an LS in an old school style like this one or one with a Roots-type blower.
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics..._injection.png

Re: Next Years Power Tour Car
 

I have a LOT of respect for the modern LS platform, it's an extremely versatile and well-proven platform. That said, it seems like the old reliable big block has become the red-headed bastard step-child around here.

Here's an interesting little combination to consider;

Very basic 496, naturally aspirated and runs on pump gas
400 Turbo, tight 10&quot; converter
3.36 gears
3600 lb race weight
Runs 10.70's @ 125 in full street trim with a best of 10.59 @ 127+
Has been together for ~6 years and has logged 14K trouble-free miles so far.

The owner just took a week long 2600+ mile road trip with it. The only problem encountered was a fouled set of plugs from a bad batch of gas.

The ONLY &quot;minus&quot; is the car gets ~12 mpg at highway speeds (turning ~3K rpm). I'm sure an overdrive and further refining the 850 Holley would improve those numbers significantly. Would it ever equal the fuel mileage of a modern LS with EFI?--of course not, it's ridiculous to even ask that question.

That said, how long would it take to recover the cost of a $10K-$15K (or more) LS swap vs. a $7800.00 bolt-in engine?

Let's do a little math.

Let's assume you tune the big block to 15 mpg (well within reach) and the LS gets 20 mpg. That's 5 mpg difference--lets say you drive 5K miles a year (generous estimate IMO since few [if any] of these cars are people's daily drivers). We'll estimate roughly $3.00/gallon for 92 octane fuel. That's 333 gallons of fuel vs. 250 for a difference of 83 gallons of fuel a year. That's $250.00 a year saved in fuel. The difference between a $15K engine and an $8K engine is $7K. At that rate, it would take 28 <span style="font-weight: bold">years</span> to recover the difference in investment. Sorry, that dog won't hunt.

Again, I have tremendous respect for the LS platform, but trying to directly compare it to a big block is the quintessential &quot;apples to oranges&quot; comparison. Show me a cost-effective naturally aspirated LS that can make over 600 lb.ft at 3000 rpm or less and 600+ HP &lt;6000 rpm...NOT gonn'a happen. Conversely, show me a cost-effective 600 HP big block that knocks down 20 mpg...I'm not going to hold my breath on that one either.

If I thought Ken would take me up on it, I'd offer to build him a 600+/600+ big block for this car AT COST--FREE LABOR on my end, just the cost of parts &amp; machine work, but I know that won't happen. Ken is a die-hard LS fan now, and I support his choice 101%--it's HIS car, he should build it the way HE wants and however it makes HIM happy.

That said, can we <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic"><span style="text-decoration: underline">PLEASE</span></span></span> stop trying to compare an LS to a big block? They're two totally different animals with their own distinct characteristics.

Both have earned and are worthy of their respect.

p.s. the guy with the `Vette mentioned above also owns a late model Z06 `Vette with a 402/F1R blower--the following is a direct quote:

<span style="font-style: italic">&quot;Thanks Del! I wasn't too worried about it. It's been a very reliable car since I built it. Now my Z06 with the 402/F1R, I wouldn't drive that sucker more then 200 miles away from home which is where my free towing range ends.

It's messed up when you trust your 45 year old car to drive cross country way more then you trust a 2002. Lol&quot;</span>

Re: Next Years Power Tour Car
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: markinnaples</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'd love to do an LS in an old school style like this one or one with a Roots-type blower.
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics..._injection.png</div></div>

Andy Starr of Hilborn had worked with the Gearz build of Cheetah running an LS. Andy is a good friend and help my Dad with his nostalgic 302 build. He gets me and has also seen thousands of LS builds. I need to ask him if he's seen any with a real old school feel.
<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="https://www.youtube.com/v/hPNAXgn0EY"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="https://www.youtube.com/v/hPNAXgn0EY" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>

Re: Next Years Power Tour Car
 

AMEN Eric -- agree, to each his own ... TAZ

Re: Next Years Power Tour Car
 

[video:youtube]https://youtu.be/-hPNAXgn0EY[/video]

Re: Next Years Power Tour Car
 

So...I guess the photo of the Nomad has escaped me...or is it hidden behind someone's garage [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/hmmm.gif[/img]

wilma

Re: Next Years Power Tour Car
 

It's on his Facebook page Tom.