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Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
Thanks! Nice to see they gave a shout-out to Eric for his carb work. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif[/img]
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Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
And as usual anything tied to NJSteve has a shout out to Evaporust:-)
Ryan |
Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
With the amount I go through, I should at least get a discount! [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/grin.gif[/img]
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Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
They should sponsor the next "newest, newer, part 7" restoration:-)
Ryan |
Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: njsteve</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks! Nice to see they gave a shout-out to Eric for his carb work. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif[/img] </div></div>
Thank you Steve. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif[/img] |
Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
Those tires sure make it look better. Who knew that 2 more inches would make a difference. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/blush.gif[/img]
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Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
Not bad for someone who knows nothing about Pontiacs................. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/hmmm.gif[/img]
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Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
Hey, I'm a slow learner... [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/dunno.gif[/img]
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Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
Well it's a little slow around here so I decided to take apart the front suspension on Gramma's car. At 80,000 miles I figured that it was about time. It's always the annoying little stuff that takes the longest...like getting 42 year old cotter pins out. UGH! Or removing the upper control frame nuts and then discovering that the upper control arm won't come off if the engine is there. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/rolleyes.gif[/img] So, I had to tap the knurled bolts back out of the frame so the upper arms could come out.
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...9-img_2962.jpg https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...0-img_2961.jpg Here's the pile of greasy old parts: https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...1-img_2963.jpg |
Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
And here is the problem for the day. I noticed that the driver's sde lower ball joint nut was really easy to remove (after spending 30 minutes getting the fused cotter pin out.). When I turned the spindle to get clearance I noticed that it moved on a stanrge arc instead of on a normal pivot.
Well here is the reason: the original lower ball joint stud had been loose for who knows how many decades. It probably was improperly installed from the factory, and it completely oblonged the mounting hole. Does anyone have a spare driver's side second gen Camrao or Firebird spindle they want to get rid of? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...ad_spindle.jpg https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...4-img_2954.jpg |
Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
And here's another glitch. It seems that the factory had some issue over the upper control arm bushing nuts coming loose so they tack welded the front driver's side nut on. I have seen this on other 1975 cars. It is only on the front nut of the driver's side.
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...5-img_2964.jpg https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...6-img_2966.jpg The passenger side does not have the tack weld but does have a different lock nut on the rear of the stud. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...7-img_2967.jpg https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...8-img_2968.jpg https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...9-img_2969.jpg |
Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
Here's the bad spindle. The casting number is 371675.
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...2-img_2956.jpg |
Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
"And here's another glitch. It seems that the factory had some issue over the upper control arm bushing nuts coming loose so they tack welded the front driver's side nut on. I have seen this on other 1975 cars. It is only on the front nut of the driver's side"
I have a 1971 Camaro with the same thing on the passenger upper forward bushing nut. Car is unrestored (but needs it). I always thought it was done by an alignment shop, but now you have me wondering. It is the same style of nut like the one in your picture. |
Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
Well, the plot thickens. After perusing 42 years of old receipts it turns out that the Midas Muffler Shop my brother took the car to, replaced the driver's side spindle about 30 years ago when they did a brake job....and they used a 1978 spindle, and didn't bother to fully tighten the ball joint castle nut. Hence the "D58" date code on the spindle and the noticeably lighter duty casting than the passenger side spindle which is a 329354 spindle dated "G25". So I guess I need a 329353 spindle in case anyone has one sitting on a coffee table somewhere. I believe that this spindle was used on just about every disc brake GM car from 1970 to 1976.
Driver's side 1978 spindle: https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...6-img_2974.jpg Original 1975 passenger spindle: https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...5-img_2972.jpg |
Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
One of the guys on the Performance Years website found this TSB. It talks about the welded nut on the control arm but doesn't give a reason for it being there.
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...ol_arm_tsb.jpg |
Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
Looks like it started in 1974 because nuts were coming off:
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...60-74_c_2a.jpg |
Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
I believe my 74 z/28 has this welded nut thing also.
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Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
Things are moving along nicely. A fellow member over at the Performance Years forum sent me 1974 casting date spindle from one of her parts cars and we are good to go. Thank you LadyTATA! [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif[/img]
Here are the new coil springs. I got them from Coil Spring Specialties http://www.coilsprings.com/ They build your springs to order using the factory specs, out of specific coil material. They don't just hack an inch off of some unversal sized coil. It usually takes a week or two to get them made. They did an awesome job making me a set of springs for the black 72 Formula a few years ago which had the car sitting perfectly - not too high, not too low. I looked up my old invoice and had them build the same set again, under that work order. The spec was for a 72 T/A 455 with A/C and a one-inch ride height drop. (Even though the spec were for a lower ride height, the springs had the car sitting at the exact ride height as original). Here they are. They are shorter than the factory spring but made of a stiffer material. If I put my weight on the old spring I can compress it a little...not with the new spring! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...4-img_2996.jpg https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...5-img_2997.jpg |
Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
On Monday I dropped off the control arms and inner fenders at Xtreme powder coating in West Easton, PA http://xtremecustomcoatings.com/. They had them blasted and powder coated and ready for pickup on Friday! Now that's service! Very good price too. I was lucky in that they had a load of other stuff to do in semi-gloass black scheduled that week and I came by at the exact right time to add it to the batch.
Once I got them back, I painted the bare metal portions with stainless steel paint to duplicate the original undipped portion of the arms. Now it's time for pressing in the new bushings and balljoints. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...0-img_3005.jpg |
Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
Steve, Do you any knowledge of what kind/brand of filler can be used on rust pits
on metal that would be then powder coated ??? Also having recently pressed bushings into unpainted control arms.... I'm very interested to see/learn how YOU do this with damaging your fresh powder coat. |
Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
The installation of the lower control arm bushings was not too difficult. I used the bench vice and several 3/4 drive sockets to press them . The powder coat held up fine. I oiled the bushings so they'd slide a little easier.
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...0-img_3006.jpg |
Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
----Chuck,,,I was thinking JB Weld. The only thing is that I have found it hard to feather out at the edges, but not impossible......Bill S
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Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
Make sure you use a spacer to keep the flanges from bending inward. I used a section of Mopar alternator bushing for the lower control arms.
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...-img_3006a.jpg |
Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
The upper control arms are a little more involved. If you try to press both bushings in without supporting the inner arms where the flanges are, it will bend the entire arm in half and destroy it. Originally there was a dealer issued tool (no longer available) that supported the area between the two arms while using a press. So I built my own...
First, I used the vice to press in the smaller bushing (1975 used a large and a small bushing, while earlier models used the same small bushing on both sides). I then set the pivot bar in place, passing it through the larger bushing hole and set the large bushing in place. I then set up the spacer bar I fabricated from the old central pivot bar that I had to cut off due to the factory spot weld. I cut it to the exact length that could run parallel to the new bar. This way I could use a couple long bolts to pin them together to hold the spacer bar from flying outward under pressure. It worked great! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...0-img_3021.jpg https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...1-img_3022.jpg |
Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
As for the powder coating holding up, it survived the process relatively unscathed. The silver paint did scratch off when I pressed the lower ball joints in but that was easily resprayed, and it didn't hurt the underlying black powder coating either. (although I had to buy another Moog ball joint after I neglected to account for how far the balljoint stud would protrude through the large sockets when pressed, and it bound up against the press'es floorplate and ruined the internal parts. So I had to go out and buy another one at the local auto parts store. They actually had the same Moog part in stock (at twice the price I paid for the first one). [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/mad.gif[/img]
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Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
Got the replacement ball joint pressed in today and then went ahead with installing the lower and upper control arms on the car. I figure I'll leave off the freshly powder coated inner fenders so I can bring the car for an alignment and not have to worry about the guy leaning all over everything and trying the wrangle a wrench onto the upper control arm bolts if he needs to install some shims. (especially difficult on the passenger side with the A/C compressor blocking everything).
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...0-img_3026.jpg https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...1-img_3028.jpg |
Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
This morning I went out and was all ready to install the coil springs and then remembered that I did not have a coil spring compressor. Luckily my mechanic buddy in town had a vintage one he loaned me for the day. After a couple hours of labor I got the coil springs, spindles, new KYB gas shocks, new sway bar bushings, and the end links installed. Only thing left is the repacking the wheel bearings and painting the calipers. Then installing the inner fenders and getting an alignment, of course.
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...7-img_3033.jpg |
Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
May I ask what method you used to remove the upper control arm shaft from the upper control arms so you could replace the bushings? Thank you for your documentation, I will be doing this to my '71 Camaro soon.
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Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
The one with the welded nut, I had to cut the nuts off (Ouch, that didn't sound right) to get the large washers off. I then used an air chisel with a blunt tip to pop the bushings out. They are only held in by the last half inch or so, of the bushing's outer shell where it tapers out slightly. So you are not chiseling it the entire way. Once it gets past a certain point it just pops out.
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Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
Thank you very much, doesn't sound too bad of a job.
EDIT: Also, what kind of "plain steel" finish did you use for the tips of the control arms? Looks perfect. |
Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
Rustoleum, Stainless Steel paint from Lowes.
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Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
Got everything back together today including the powder coated inner fenders. They are quite the endeavor to install without scratching them. I ended up using duct tape around the fender flanges and the underside of the fender in the engine compartment. This alowed the inner fender to painlessly jockey for position while I used some screw drivers to pry it til it fully slipped under the fender well flanges and engaged in place.
Tomorrow I'll take her off the jackstands and see how she sits. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...0-img_3039.jpg https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...1-img_3040.jpg |
Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
Your amazing Steve .......... looks great!
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Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
Thanks! Gotta keep busy working on something. Maybe I'll pull the rear end out next to redo the springs/bushings/shocks, etc.
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Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
Took Gramma's car out for a test drive this morning. Very smooth. No floating or tire rubbing during suspension movement when going over bumps. Actually no real wallowing or jouncing at all, like it did with the old parts. It rides very nicely now. Not even a hint of a rub at full lock in either direction any more.
Prior to the suspension rebuild, the passenger side front tire was a good 3/8" further out of the wheel well (when viewed from above) than the driver's side - due to the worn control arm bushings. Now it is in the exact location as the driver's side tire. YAY! Once I pull the rear end out, rebuild the rear springs and replace the bushings and shocks, she should level out a bit. The ride height is as follows: Left Front: 28-11/16" to fender edge..................Right Front: 28-8/16" to fender edge Left Rear: 28-13/16" to fender edge...................Right Rear 28-6/16" to fender edge I thought it a little odd that the driver's side is taller than the passenger side. I then went and measured the 19,000 mile SD455 fender heights and found that it had the exact same stagger gap between left to right. Here is a photo of the car with the factory 80,000 mile suspension components: https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics..._255_50_17.jpg And today with the new front springs (prior to the test drive) https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...ew_springs.jpg |
Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
And here's a shot of the newly powder coated inner fenders installed. Time to get going on detailing the rest of the engine bay one of these days.
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...7-img_3045.jpg |
Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
Nice work Steve! So no "rubber" flaps on the inner fenders?
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Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
Nope. I think they stopped that in 1972.
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Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
I was thinking (always a dangerous endeavor)...it's probably all the A/C gear that causes these things to sit lower on the passenger side. You have that heavy A-6 compressor, the evaporator and fiberglass box, and all the hoses and extraneous other shrapnel that go along with the system. Not to mention the heavy radial spare tire and rim on the right side as well. All that would tend to make the car unevenly weighted to the right side.
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Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
I brought the car in for an alignment today and was pleasantly surprised. As assembled, the caster and camber were perfectly in spec and only the toe was out of spec. It was toed in, probably due to the wacky driver's side lower ball joint/spindle wallowing situation. I brought my bag-O-shims with me but the car didn't need a single shim, whatsoever.
She tracks straight and true and the steering wheel is straight. YAY! Now, on to the rear suspension. The front end is completely silent. But I can hear squeeks from the worn front leaf spring bushings and the squishy Midas shock absorbers and worn sway bar bushings. I had already replaced the rear shackle bushings last year when I replaced the gas tank. The new KYB gas shocks arrived yesterday and now I am waiting for the new sway bar bushings that Summit is drop shipping from Prothane. This car has the small 9/16" sway bar which was a little tricky to find bushings for. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/PTP-7-1116-BL |
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